Thameslink/ Class 700 Progress

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by fgwrich, 16 Nov 2013.

  1. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    That looks useful in the core as outside the peaks, most of the passengers will be leisure travellers. It would also be beneficial in the peak with loading indicators operating as the dwells will be quite short, and on narrow platforms such as at Farringdon, once the train has drawn in, there's not enough room to quickly shuffle up and down the platform to get to the less loaded cars.
     
  2. Alfie1014

    Alfie1014 Member

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    This is one of my biggest concerns about the class 720s, when you have a longish journey 60-90 minutes noise can be particularly intrusive especially on air conditioned trains with much better sound proofing. That said the 720s will be carpeted so it will be interest8ng one see how they compare. I think the addition of extra doors/partitions would be probably ruled out on safety/security/fire resistance reasons?
     
  3. APUK002

    APUK002 Member

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    Sure,yes they are the new screens,that can show more info and more clearly. They can show anything on those boards e.g personal messages or custom stuff
     
  4. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

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    The TL insider who used to post here suggested (quite reasonably I thought) that the load indicators couldn't ever be reliably used in the core, because it was expected so many people would be getting off a train. They'd only be beneficial in parts of routes where trains were still mainly loading up on their journey towards the core stations.
     
  5. Mordac

    Mordac Established Member

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    So there could be a feed set off of text messages/twitter to create a "Rush Hour Crush" type system?

    "To the blonde in coach B, you look amazing. Coffee?" :D
     
  6. spark001uk

    spark001uk Established Member

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    Well that was a bizarre coincidence. Talking about red light messages staying up, I just got on 9V51 at West Hampstead, as far as Pancras, and it had the red light msg all the way, then I jumped off, boarded 9J39 to Horsham, and by coincidence it had the same!
     
  7. Passo

    Passo New Member

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    This is a good point. I guess they could build up carriage loading data over a few months and then display the service's predicted load and the best doors to get on at, although I imagine seasoned commuters could probably work this out faster.
     
  8. spark001uk

    spark001uk Established Member

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    Just left 9V37 (700014) sat down at STP since 1142, sounded like it was shutting down every time driver tried to get a brake release. I'm out of there now but 1Z99 dispatched by the looks.

    EDIT: 1Z99 now passed wrong road and approaching from South. Be a good pic if anyone there.
     
  9. FlippyFF

    FlippyFF Member

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    Noted recently that the 'All' stopping boards at London end of P5/6 at Ashford International for the 700s now have a small number '12' in the bottom of the diamond. If I remember in the morning I'll have a look to see if any 'RLU' stop boards have appeared.

    Simon
     
  10. aleggatta

    aleggatta Member

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    That is slightly puzzling, as the number typically denotes the number of coaches to open at short platforms, which seems quite pointless in this situation...
     
  11. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    Could the software automatically clear the message after a period of one or two minutes? If the message cleared and the train was still stationary, would people get confused? They'd likely accept the message had timed out and other information back on (like a phone notification that clears after a few seconds). Then the driver doesn't have to clear it at all.
     
  12. Elshad

    Elshad Member

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    Yea, definitely better than having an essentially useless display for the rest of the journey.
     
  13. MML

    MML Member

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    I'm not sure what's happening with the PIS on this train.
    It says we are in the front coach. We are actually in the rear.
    It says destination is Brighton. But we are heading to Bedford.
    It says the next station is St Albans. We've just passed East Croydon.
    The time on the clock is correct. And thankfully so are the announcements.
    I was beginning to get worried
     
  14. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Are there any film crews on board working on the remake of the Red Dwarf episode 'Backward'?
     
  15. 387star

    387star Established Member

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    No sign of wifi being fitted to the bulk of the fleet what's taking so long?
     
  16. Ethano92

    Ethano92 Member

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    I thought the DfT got tired of paying for retrofitting WiFi and tables into the rest of the 700s so stopped some time ago but I may be wrong, if I am wrong I don't know where I got that from
     
  17. Bald Rick

    Bald Rick Established Member

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    That’s what I heard too, but I have never seen confirmation.
     
  18. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Considering how unreliable the 700s are compared to what they replaced they can’t afford to take them out of service for cosmetic issues. I agree. Actually having a train must be a priority the cancellations are too high.

    But may be putting words in your mouth. Is their any evidence the seat back takes slows down loading / unloading. I can’t say I have noticed and they are used on the sets that have them.
     
  19. 387star

    387star Established Member

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    Thought wifi was compulsory on all trains by 2020

    Thought 700s were all built wifi ready
     
  20. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    We have such strange priorities if it is. Cramming people in 1 coach trains in EMT but that is ok they have WiFi.

    But yes I understand the 700s have the cabling. I see many of 365s have it as well.

    Personally I never use train wi-fi. Too slow compared to my own.
     
  21. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Well if they haven't had the opportunity to do these cosmetic issues because the trains haven't been taken out of service, they can't be that unreliable can they?
     
  22. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Yes. Latest figures around 12k MTIN. Still the worse in GTRs fleet. Earlier this week 50% of the London - Cambridge service was cancelled because of failed sets.
     
  23. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Ignoring anecdotal reports of failures which don't provide any indication of fleet reliability, reading your statement that they are so unreliable*, I am postulating this unreliability is causing many of them to be taken out of service thereby providing many opportunities to address ''cosmetic' issues. The fitting of the seat-back tables has been described here some time ago and wouldseem to be relatively simple and quick to complete. Similarly, they were delivered ready cabled for wi-fi so fitting the required electronics wouldbe a routine task.
    * If they are indeed that unreliable.
     
  24. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    Of course neither of us know how long it takes to do the cosmetic stuff. But the same report said that the currently only need 88% of the fleet to operate the weekday timetable. Likewise as we both know GTR don’t really operate many trains at the weekends. So the fleet has a lot of downtime.

    The report stated the demands on the fleet will increase in May when some extra services are added (including running a decent service level at weekends).

    If they could do a train be day, then they certainly would be doing this at the weekends so the suspicion that it isn’t funded is probably correct.

    As for unreliability, it is really what is published in modern railways. The golden spanners published in January has them the least reliable unit in the GTR fleet. (10k compared to 15k on the 313). It is heading in the right direction of 12k but still a long way behind what passengers deserve. It is noticeable on the great northern side because of low frequencies especially when one dies at the weekend (or even on in the core when the die in the core)

    Certainly the cancellations rate is still higher than before these trains were introduced.
     
  25. AM9

    AM9 Established Member

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    Comparing 8 or 12-car units with 3 or 4-car types by their MTIN figures is misleading as has been discussed here before. Ignoring the 313s which are less complex yet being run down, the predecessors of the 700s, the 319s frequently had issues. That was partly why so many trains were running as 4-car (even in the peaks) as that was better than no train at all.
    Single units are being introduced across the railway to increase capacity, especially where there is no requirement to split and join trains in service. The 700s have measures to allow self or mutual recovery (particularly relevant in the core) where more conventional methods as used on 319s might cause even more disruption. I appreciate that the less frequent services are more impacted by failures/withdraws but recovery actions in the core affect both TL routes and there, and with no alternative services at all for MML passengers, the impact there is just as disruptive but in a different way,
     
  26. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    I agree it is a difficult comparison to make. To Siemens / GTRs credit the are publishing the figures. The class 385 is still missing.

    Also appreciate that something trivial such as a windscreen wiper failing is included. On multiple units the can and do just hide the defective cab in the formation. You can’t on a fixed unit of course.

    I don’t know what has caused the recent failure rate on the 700s. We have seen 12 car vice 8 car because of this. (Nice problem to have). A few door faults which again shows up what you highlighted. One door fault loses the entire set. You can’t even lock the coach out of use like the did on the old stock.

    So yes it can be argued that the comparison isn’t fair. But the passenger doesn’t care. Get 2 consecutive cancellations and a 90 minute gap in service you will get people less than impressed by the reliability of the 700s. (Although additional stops to break the gap on other services may have made us feel better)
     
  27. modernrail

    modernrail Member

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    Will Siemens be feeling any pain from the reliability levels? If so, let's hope that drives improvements.
     
  28. ComUtoR

    ComUtoR Established Member

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    It's not 'downtime' that 12% part of the fleet will undergoing cleaning, maintenance, updates, stock movement, training, used for standby etc. and probably some surplus because of the broken timetable.
     
  29. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    As you say, a strange priority. Personally I mildly object to effectively subsidising free internet browsing for others just so they don’t have to use up their own data allowance.

    The only other “benefit” is that it works in tunnels. Not the end of the world for data, and at least before it meant irritating phone calls would be cut off in the many tunnels on the GN route. Thankfully wi-fi calling doesn’t seem to have caught on (yet?!).
     
  30. Failed Unit

    Failed Unit Established Member

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    God help GTR come May then. When they need 92% of the fleet available. Not sure what the figure is for if the full timetable ever gets implemented if they can’t do stuff when the current weekday demand is 101 / 115 units I expect the service to fall off a cliff again in May.

    May is supposed to need 106 / 115 but they are also supposed to run trains at the weekends. As many GN users know the 387s and 365s rule the weekends on the few services they run.
     

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