Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[uglymonkey]

That's great, but there is no alternative for the stations on the GN Cambridge branch, its a monopoly. You have to use Thameslink services to get home, OK you can get to Cambridge by going via Liverpool street, but that still doesn't get you to say, Letchworth. Hitchin could be a solution, but don't think anyone other that TL stop there? ( stand to be corrected on that one) , and besides you have to travel up the ECML which may have all the problems and delays which you are trying to avoid in the first place!,so instead of a BR monopoly we have a private TL one!

 

[bramling]

That's great, but there is no alternative for the stations on the GN Cambridge branch, its a monopoly. You have to use Thameslink services to get home, OK you can get to Cambridge by going via Liverpool street, but that still doesn't get you to say, Letchworth. Hitchin could be a solution, but don't think anyone other that TL stop there? ( stand to be corrected on that one) , and besides you have to travel up the ECML which may have all the problems and delays which you are trying to avoid in the first place!,so instead of a BR monopoly we have a private TL one!

Once again some level of mess on the GN tonight, this time due to a defective train in the Wood Green area, although not sure which train was the culprit. So once again my 365 home will have extra stops, and once again will be late. Last week late every day by varying amounts, all due to reactionary delays apart from one day which was due to an ESR.

Day after day we are seeing proof that this railway simply isn’t up to what is now being asked of it.

(Edit: and now being further delayed thanks to a late-running Thameslink service in front at Finsbury, and yet further because our signal wasn’t cleared until the driver pressed the SG button. This once decent railway is becoming more and more of a disaster!).

(Further edit: looks like the defective train is 2J57 Watton-at-Stone to Moorgate. Stalled just south of Wood Green and still there now.)

(And a further edit: following the extra stop at Welwyn now waiting at signals at Digswell presumably to allow an LNER to pass. Even at well gone 2200 in the evening the GN is guaranteed to produce a conflict every step of the way. Given the way this driver is talking over the PA and from the way the train is being driven I get the feeling he’s peeved at the extra stops).

(And yet another edit: now being held at signals at Langley Junction due to a 313 in the platform at Stevenage. This is poor regulating as they could have used the down fast line, but it seems they didn’t, perhaps because of 2206 KX-Peterborough which is presumably RT and thus a PPM score. Thanks a bunch KX PSB! I think this all illustrates rather well for those unfamiliar with the route just how fragile it is, and how delays multiply when something goes wrong. 16 minutes of delay, all totally reactionary!).

 

[Aictos]

(And yet another edit: now being held at signals at Langley Junction due to a 313 in the platform at Stevenage. This is poor regulating as they could have used the down fast line, but it seems they didn’t, perhaps because of 2206 KX-Peterborough which is presumably RT and thus a PPM score. Thanks a bunch KX PSB! I think this all illustrates rather well for those unfamiliar with the route just how fragile it is, and how delays multiply when something goes wrong. 16 minutes of delay, all totally reactionary!).

To be fair, if and when Network Rail and the DfT pull their finger out and get that 5th platform open and in use then that sort of delay wouldn't be happening at Langley Junction as the 313 would have been in Platform 5, the Peterborough in Platform 3 and your train in Platform 4.

You also can't have a go at Kings Cross PSB for the delays when they have to put up with the infrastructure what they've got and there's little to nothing being done to improve it, that's the fault of the DfT not being forth coming with the funds to get these much needed projects up and running!

 

[bramling]

To be fair, if and when Network Rail and the DfT pull their finger out and get that 5th platform open and in use then that sort of delay wouldn't be happening at Langley Junction as the 313 would have been in Platform 5, the Peterborough in Platform 3 and your train in Platform 4.

You also can't have a go at Kings Cross PSB for the delays when they have to put up with the infrastructure what they've got and there's little to nothing being done to improve it, that's the fault of the DfT not being forth coming with the funds to get these much needed projects up and running!

A good point about the additional Stevenage platform. This is exactly the sort of thing which should have been done as part of the Thameslink Programme, in time for the implementation. With a project planned over decades not years there really is no excuse for this not having been done.

To be fair I was probably being a little harsh on the PSB, however I get fed up with blatant PPM regulating. In times past no way would they have further delayed a 12-minutes late train simply to avoid putting a couple of minutes on a fast Peterborough.

It’s interesting that the 2121 Cambridge service was cancelled allegedly due to “train fault”. Unless there was something extra going on it seems they were referring to the Wood Green incident. The Undesiro for the 2121 rolled in to KX at about 2130 so it does seem a little strange for it to be cancelled for that reason. So one can’t help but wonder if this was due to crewing reasons, although this is just speculation.

It would be nice to arrive home right-time just occasionally. In virtually every case it’s down to reactionary issues, normally a delayed core service.

 

[Bromley boy]

and yet further because our signal wasn’t cleared until the driver pressed the SG button.

That’s a common occurrence and is most frustrating from the driver’s perspective!

Each and every red you’re stopped at is a potential SPAD. Stopping at red signals is obviously part of the drivers’ remit, but it’s annoying to be checked down to a halt, hit SG and it’s immediately pulled off to green - I’ve taken to hitting SG while still rolling for this reason.

“WAIT” often comes through on the GSMR some minutes later to rub salt into the wound .

Part of my patch has recently been recontrolled to a ROC and it’s now happening more than ever! Is ARS (or ROC equivalent) to blame, I wonder?!

Perhaps a signaller could advise on why this happens?

 

[Bedpan]

Not to break up the "TL is rubbish" thread, but there's been only a single cancelled Saturday fast from Kings Cross to Cambridge and vice versa in the last four weeks, with admittedly a several minute delay commonplace.

Yes, the single hourly Saturday service is crap, but it's still a journey that can be made, and made without any problems. [And I know nobody is being serious, but at least slag off TL for the things they've actually been rubbish at].

Surely its more a case of "Only one of the trains that hasn't already been cancelled in advance didn't run".

 

[bramling]

That’s a common occurrence and is most frustrating from the driver’s perspective!

Each and every red you’re stopped at is a potential SPAD. Stopping at red signals is obviously part of the drivers’ remit, but it’s annoying to be checked down to a halt, hit SG and it’s immediately pulled off to green - I’ve taken to hitting SG while still rolling for this reason.

“WAIT” often comes through on the GSMR some minutes later to rub salt into the wound .

Part of my patch has recently been recontrolled to a ROC and it’s now happening more than ever! Is ARS (or ROC equivalent) to blame, I wonder?!

Perhaps a signaller could advise on why this happens?

It’s nothing new in the KX PSB area. The tell-tale sign is often when certain signals go straight from red to green, even at critical places like Welwyn viaduct!

 

[Aictos]

A good point about the additional Stevenage platform. This is exactly the sort of thing which should have been done as part of the Thameslink Programme, in time for the implementation. With a project planned over decades not years there really is no excuse for this not having been done.

It would be nice to arrive home right-time just occasionally. In virtually every case it’s down to reactionary issues, normally a delayed core service.

To be pedantic, the 5th platform ought to have been done years ago when Network Rail upgraded the Up Goods between Alexandra Palace and Finsbury Park to passenger standards of course which was nothing to do with the TL Programme but rather increasing capacity between Wood Green and Finsbury Park.

There's plenty of improvements to improve the GN and not all to do with the TL Programme either ie

Shorter signalling headways between Stevenage and Hertford
5th platform at Stevenage
New platforms on the Up Slow 2 and Down Slow 2 at Hornsey and Harringay
Remodelling of Kings Cross
4th Platform reinstated at Gordon Hill
K239 shunt signal at Letchworth upgraded to full signal to allow Platform 1 to be used for London or in times of disruption/engineering works used to turn back Cambridge services.

That's stuff that should have been done years ago especially the first three!

 

[bramling]

To be pedantic, the 5th platform ought to have been done years ago when Network Rail upgraded the Up Goods between Alexandra Palace and Finsbury Park to passenger standards of course which was nothing to do with the TL Programme but rather increasing capacity between Wood Green and Finsbury Park.

There's plenty of improvements to improve the GN and not all to do with the TL Programme either ie

Shorter signalling headways between Stevenage and Hertford
5th platform at Stevenage
New platforms on the Up Slow 2 and Down Slow 2 at Hornsey and Harringay
Remodelling of Kings Cross
4th Platform reinstated at Gordon Hill
K239 shunt signal at Letchworth upgraded to full signal to allow Platform 1 to be used for London or in times of disruption/engineering works used to turn back Cambridge services.

That's stuff that should have been done years ago especially the first three!

Meanwhile money gets spent on putting a flashing yellow on the down fast junction signal at Potters Bar. Only took them four decades to do it, all ready and waiting just a few months prior to the RailSham2020 timetable ... which has barely a single booked move over that crossover!

Yet meanwhile the UF to US1 crossover at Finsbury, now used four times an hour, doesnt have flashing yellows, despite various modifications to the signalling in the area as part of the extra tracks.

No wonder there is so much cynicism associated with the Thameslink Programme!

 

[Failed Unit]

Although not GTRs fault, damage to the overheads is causing a lot of cancellations this morning.

Communication is poor (as we have become used to).

Suspect many trains that had no drivers will suddenly be cancelled due to this incident.

 

[FOH]

From NRE
Yesterday evening, the 20:09 Watton-at-Stone to Moorgate service came to a halt just outside of Alexandra Palace due to the unit losing power.

The fault was confirmed as a problem with one of the train's 'pantographs'. A thorough inspection took place and found approximately 150 metres of overhead line that had been identified as damaged.

Work has been undertaken overnight to free the damaged train from the lines and carry out repairs so the lines can be reopened to train traffic.

 

[MikeWM]

0844 off Kings Lynn cancelled for the second time this week

A particularly irritating train to cancel as it results in a 45 minute gap between Ely and Cambridge at what is still a very busy time.

To add insult to injury, we then all get to watch a GN ECS 387 leave empty - for Cambridge (!) - just before we all struggle to squash onto the 0938 GA.

Another fun start to the day.

 

[sprunt]

The fault was confirmed as a problem with one of the train's 'pantographs'. A thorough inspection took place and found approximately 150 metres of overhead line that had been identified as damaged.

Is there any implication here that the problematic pantograph damaged the overhead line, or vice versa?

 

[Aictos]

0844 off Kings Lynn cancelled for the second time this week

A particularly irritating train to cancel as it results in a 45 minute gap between Ely and Cambridge at what is still a very busy time.

To add insult to injury, we then all get to watch a GN ECS 387 leave empty - for Cambridge (!) - just before we all struggle to squash onto the 0938 GA.

Another fun start to the day.

This is annoying as I can't see why the ECS couldn't have been used to run a additional service to Cambridge then pick up it's own service there or even better start back the Cambridge service at Kings Lynn or Ely where ever it came from!

I just don't see why they can't press a ECS service into passenger service especially if a service has been cancelled, it's just crap decision making as it's going to get into Cambridge around the same time so why not call at at a few stations to ensure there's still a service.

 

[jon0844]

Once again some level of mess on the GN tonight, this time due to a defective train in the Wood Green area, although not sure which train was the culprit. So once again my 365 home will have extra stops, and once again will be late. Last week late every day by varying amounts, all due to reactionary delays apart from one day which was due to an ESR.

Day after day we are seeing proof that this railway simply isn’t up to what is now being asked of it.

(Edit: and now being further delayed thanks to a late-running Thameslink service in front at Finsbury, and yet further because our signal wasn’t cleared until the driver pressed the SG button. This once decent railway is becoming more and more of a disaster!).

(Further edit: looks like the defective train is 2J57 Watton-at-Stone to Moorgate. Stalled just south of Wood Green and still there now.)

(And a further edit: following the extra stop at Welwyn now waiting at signals at Digswell presumably to allow an LNER to pass. Even at well gone 2200 in the evening the GN is guaranteed to produce a conflict every step of the way. Given the way this driver is talking over the PA and from the way the train is being driven I get the feeling he’s peeved at the extra stops).

(And yet another edit: now being held at signals at Langley Junction due to a 313 in the platform at Stevenage. This is poor regulating as they could have used the down fast line, but it seems they didn’t, perhaps because of 2206 KX-Peterborough which is presumably RT and thus a PPM score. Thanks a bunch KX PSB! I think this all illustrates rather well for those unfamiliar with the route just how fragile it is, and how delays multiply when something goes wrong. 16 minutes of delay, all totally reactionary!).

The chaos was down to needing to block lines to evacuate people from the 313 that brought down the wires. After that, the lines were put back into service and the recovery process could commence.

 

[londonteacher]

Thameslink seem to be struggling in the core today. On the board it said that the next train was a Brighton service, but turned out to be a Sutton, then the Brighton service vanished from the board leaving a possible 30 minute service gap.

 

[greyman42]

There has been a Class 700 stood in the Snow Hill Tunnel siding all day, is this the norm?

 

[Muzz]

At Finsbury Park I'm getting pretty used to running from platform 2 to platform 4 (although tonight it was 4 to 2) but as platform 2 is double sided is there a technical reason why platforms 3 & 4 aren't used to save the running between platforms?

 

[bramling]

At Finsbury Park I'm getting pretty used to running from platform 2 to platform 4 (although tonight it was 4 to 2) but as platform 2 is double sided is there a technical reason why platforms 3 & 4 aren't used to save the running between platforms?

It will almost certainly to be to do with dispatch. IIRC they use CD/RA on these platforms, so for such trains there would need to be staff on both sides, and a system of work designed and agreed to cater for that method. In fact operationally that is a complete nuisance - awkward, increases dwell time, and more risk. Not quite so much of an issue with bodyside cameras, but still more dwell time and slightly more risk introduced.

Remember also that in this timetable there’s little actually booked to use 4 - for the last couple of years practice has been to use 2 where possible, presumably for cross-platform interchange to Moorgate, but presumably also having the added benefit of clearing the fast line very slightly quicker (although in practice the difference is probably fairly minimal - but that half minute could make the differenc between something else achieving PPM or not!).

 

[ijmad]

Can the 700s open the doors on both sides at once?

 

[bramling]

The chaos was down to needing to block lines to evacuate people from the 313 that brought down the wires. After that, the lines were put back into service and the recovery process could commence.

Saw the 313s being detrained at about 2200. Interesting that this was done with trains still running at line speed on various other lines - the down lines at least. Bet that was a little hair-raising for some.

I see today there was some after effects. My neighbour was unhappy that the 1256 Letchworth to KX was cancelled. On the station this was displayed as due to “earlier overhead wire problems”, yet on RTTT it was showing as due to train crew issue.

Meanwhile I write this whilst sitting on 1R66 - wonder if it’ll arrive right-time today? Ironically it was doing better before the interim timetable came in as, provided there were no extra stops, once running there was nothing else in the way to delay it. Now virtually every day it gets a very disjointed run - which seems to be the case for many services. They really should have gone for maximising length before running more services on this highly congested route, especially with Thameslink introducing more mileage for delays to originate from.

Still, the 365 is pretty spotless, as many now seem to be inside. No sign of the disgusting dirty mess that one poster predicted comes with tables!

 

[ComUtoR]

Can the 700s open the doors on both sides at once?

Yes they can.

 

[jon0844]

Yes they can.

Given how long it can take to open them on just one side, how long would both sides take?

 

[ComUtoR]

Takes about 5 seconds when you know how (4 button presses on the HMI iirc) then the door release both sides.

 

[Hitchincommute]

I see today there was some after effects. My neighbour was unhappy that the 1256 Letchworth to KX was cancelled. On the station this was displayed as due to “earlier overhead wire problems”, yet on RTTT it was showing as due to train crew issue.

When I arrived at Hitchin the 1626 to Brighton was announced as cancelled due to overhead wire problems!

 

[Hadders]

I’m at Kings Cross en-route from Newport South Wales to Stevenage having been to a rugby match.

00:23 and 00:32 from Kings Cross both cancelled due to ‘overhead line issues’. The 00:32 is the last Cambridge service. There is a 00:46 from St Pancras but no-one at Kings Cross pointing this out to waiting passengers until I point it out to them. Not helped by 2 screens on the departure board at STP not working properly.

Typical GTR. There really needs to be departure boards for both STP and KGX at both stations.

 

[Fred26]

When I arrived at Hitchin the 1626 to Brighton was announced as cancelled due to overhead wire problems!

Wires were down near Cambridge.

 

[OwenB]

Has anyone tried to use the GN routes to/from London on a Sunday? I need to go in tomorrow and I'm a little apprehensive, as the weekend timetable is quite threadbare and notice some cancellations due to shortage of drivers.

I'm going from Hatfield and I'm not too bothered whether I get into King's Cross or Moorgate, as just need to hop on the Northern line (to Oval for the cricket).

Does anyone have a gut feeling about how well or otherwise the trains will run in the evening, at around 9pm? I'll probably head to Finsbury Park, so I'll have the choice of services from KGX and MOG.

 

[Failed Unit]

Has anyone tried to use the GN routes to/from London on a Sunday? I need to go in tomorrow and I'm a little apprehensive, as the weekend timetable is quite threadbare and notice some cancellations due to shortage of drivers.

I'm going from Hatfield and I'm not too bothered whether I get into King's Cross or Moorgate, as just need to hop on the Northern line (to Oval for the cricket).

Does anyone have a gut feeling about how well or otherwise the trains will run in the evening, at around 9pm? I'll probably head to Finsbury Park, so I'll have the choice of services from KGX and MOG.

Very unpredictable. Inners better than outers. Use Finsbury Park. Inners more likely to run.

 

[OwenB]

Very unpredictable. Inners better than outers. Use Finsbury Park. Inners more likely to run.

Thanks. That was my thinking. So frustrating that this stripped down timetable doesn't provide certainty at the weekends.