Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[Failed Unit]

Thanks. That was my thinking. So frustrating that this stripped down timetable doesn't provide certainty at the weekends.

Absolutely chaos today. So might be safer to get the tube. Both inners and outers at about 50% cancellation rate.

 

[OwenB]

Absolutely chaos today. So might be safer to get the tube. Both inners and outers at about 50% cancellation rate.

Ugh. Sadly I have no alternative over how to get into London itself.

 

[tommy2215]

Absolutely chaos today. So might be safer to get the tube. Both inners and outers at about 50% cancellation rate.

What are you talking about? I only see 2 cancelled with the vast majority running on time

 

[OwenB]

What are you talking about? I only see 2 cancelled with the vast majority running on time

Think he was looking at the PPM stats so far this morning http://trains.im/ppm/ET
Looking pretty bad.

 

[tommy2215]

Think he was looking at the PPM stats so far this morning http://trains.im/ppm/ET
Looking pretty bad.

I'll repeat myself. Its very clear looking at the departures in the core today, the vast majority of trains are running on time.

 

[Failed Unit]

What are you talking about? I only see 2 cancelled with the vast majority running on time

Not sure which station you use. But the inners doing badly from WGC this morning and the outers even worse.

Not sure why the inners are so poor.

The outers probably still suffering from yesterday and the lack of ability to provide a plan B. Say Kings Cross - Letchworth, maybe Royston rather than give up.

 

[Failed Unit]

I'll repeat myself. Its very clear looking at the departures in the core today, the vast majority of trains are running on time.

Lucky for the core. Great northern doesn’t run into the core at weekends, which I was referring to. Inners and outers are both GN service groups.

We are suffering 50% cancellations on an service already 50% less than planned in the May timetable

 

[jon0844]

Ugh. Sadly I have no alternative over how to get into London itself.

You could take a bus to St Albans and travel from there. In my experience the service on a Sunday is far more reliable and regular. There are Uno and Arriva buses that operate, although it will be more costly. A price perhaps paying given the current circumstances?

 

[OwenB]

You could take a bus to St Albans and travel from there. In my experience the service on a Sunday is far more reliable and regular. There are Uno and Arriva buses that operate, although it will be more costly. A price perhaps paying given the current circumstances?

Thanks, I'll look into that. I wonder what the bus service will be from St Albans to Hatfield at around 9.30-10pm on a Sunday night. I'll do some research. Thanks again for the suggestion.

 

[Failed Unit]

You could take a bus to St Albans and travel from there. In my experience the service on a Sunday is far more reliable and regular. There are Uno and Arriva buses that operate, although it will be more costly. A price perhaps paying given the current circumstances?

It is a shame people like Nick Brown are not reading comments like this. Shows how low people’s faith of getting from A to B using his company (well the GN bit) are. When pro rail people are saying don’t use it that is really bad.

 

[Hadders]

Has anyone tried to use the GN routes to/from London on a Sunday?

I use the service most Sundays from Stevenage - Kings Cross and return. To be fair there are more options from Stevenage.

You'll get back as there's the option of the inners but be prepared for your targeted train to be cancelled and having to wait for a later one.

 

[OwenB]

I use the service most Sundays from Stevenage - Kings Cross and return. To be fair there are more options from Stevenage.

You'll get back as there's the option of the inners but be prepared for your targeted train to be cancelled and having to wait for a later one.

Yep, seems pot luck. I'd rather they decided now what trains they know are not going to run and marked them up as cancelled, just so people know. Surely they'll know what drivers they have in and the trains they are assigned? I don't expect them to account for unexpected issues - sickness, overhead wire issues, etc - but someone knows what trains they're planning to run more than 24 hours in advance.

 

[Failed Unit]

I must admit I don’t know how they are still allowed to continue treating passengers with such contempt without punishment.

Let’s look at the bank holiday weekend (yes still going on about this)

Go to national rail - enhanced Saturday service (whatever that means as I suspect it won’t be the May 2018 one).

Go to the journey planner it is still a standard Monday service.

People on AP tickets could check today and think that their plans are ok as per printed confirmation.

People who are returning to the UK from abroad turn up at Gatwick Airport to find a very limited service (nothing to great northern) yes I know this happens every single day, but they should know what they plan to run by now - why not publish it.

More importantly why are the DFT not punishing them financially for not having a timetable so close to an event which normally increases demand for leisure passengers.

Getting beyond a joke. But don’t know who I am more angry with GTR for the fact their management is inept, or the DFT for doing nothing about it. GTR know they won’t be punished so why change?

 

[Hadders]

Yep, seems pot luck. I'd rather they decided now what trains they know are not going to run and marked them up as cancelled, just so people know. Surely they'll know what drivers they have in and the trains they are assigned? I don't expect them to account for unexpected issues - sickness, overhead wire issues, etc - but someone knows what trains they're planning to run more than 24 hours in advance.

I agree but this is what the emergency timetable's designed to do.

I really don't know how long we're supposed to put up with shambles, GTR originally told us that they expected to have the full May timetable up and running by the end of August. I fear we'll have another 12 months of this shambles.

 

[OwenB]

I agree but this is what the emergency timetable's designed to do.

I really don't know how long we're supposed to put up with shambles, GTR originally told us that they expected to have the full May timetable up and running by the end of August. I fear we'll have another 12 months of this shambles.

the weekend service is embarrassing. I'm going to Stevenage today by bus, despite the fact it's over double the cost.

 

[Aictos]

I'm not defending GTR far from it but the inactions of Grayling and the DfT is the political version of a chocolate fireguard and so instead of ducking the blame and blaming everyone else, the DfT MUST take responsibility for their role in this disaster as they are responsible for not only creating GTR as a management contract which means GTR get paid so have no incentive to provide a better service but also they are responsible for Network Rail and their failings.

It's no good senior managers saying it will get better when you get idiots like Grayling denying they know about the issues being createn by HIS department.

 

[Hadders]

I'm not defending GTR far from it but the inactions of Grayling and the DfT is the political version of a chocolate fireguard and so instead of ducking the blame and blaming everyone else, the DfT MUST take responsibility for their role in this disaster as they are responsible for not only creating GTR as a management contract which means GTR get paid so have no incentive to provide a better service but also they are responsible for Network Rail and their failings.

It's no good senior managers saying it will get better when you get idiots like Grayling denying they know about the issues being createn by HIS department.

I'm not really interested in who's fault it is. I just want it to operate as promised.

 

[Failed Unit]

I'm not defending GTR far from it but the inactions of Grayling and the DfT is the political version of a chocolate fireguard and so instead of ducking the blame and blaming everyone else, the DfT MUST take responsibility for their role in this disaster as they are responsible for not only creating GTR as a management contract which means GTR get paid so have no incentive to provide a better service but also they are responsible for Network Rail and their failings.

It's no good senior managers saying it will get better when you get idiots like Grayling denying they know about the issues being createn by HIS department.

I would add that until GTR admit they are part of the problem things will not improve. But i agree it is a very poor management contract if GTR are really operating in the boundary of it. The fact GTR can watch leisure passengers drop and not care because it isn’t their risk speaks volume.
Northern seem to be improving as they have revenue risk. GTR are not.

 

[uglymonkey]

Thameslink 13:44 was 14 minutes late at Hitchin to Cambridge due to "Train crew being delayed" - presumably by being on another late running service prior to leaving.

 

[Aictos]

I would add that until GTR admit they are part of the problem things will not improve. But i agree it is a very poor management contract if GTR are really operating in the boundary of it. The fact GTR can watch leisure passengers drop and not care because it isn’t their risk speaks volume.
Northern seem to be improving as they have revenue risk. GTR are not.

Indeed, which is why there's hardly any improvement in providing a reliable service because DfT not GTR is responsible for revenue risk - all GTR is responsible for is doing what the DfT tell them to do in other words, when the DfT and Grayling say jump GTR doesn't question how high, they just jump!

As to wanting a reliable service again, until these responsible take responsibility for their actions I can't see it getting better for a long while.

 

[Abpj17]

There has been a Class 700 stood in the Snow Hill Tunnel siding all day, is this the norm?

I don't think it's common - I go past mid morning regularly and don't see. However, GTR's problem is a lack of the right drivers in the right place, not a lack of rolling stock.

 

[Joe Paxton]

I would add that until GTR admit they are part of the problem things will not improve. But i agree it is a very poor management contract if GTR are really operating in the boundary of it. The fact GTR can watch leisure passengers drop and not care because it isn’t their risk speaks volume.
Northern seem to be improving as they have revenue risk. GTR are not.

Are there figures showing this?

If so, it's a great shame - Southern did a great job of growing leisure travel in their previous incarnation as NSR.

 

[Abpj17]

Apparently Thameslink was fun last night.

A work colleague was coming back from London St Pancras at 22.30 (hoping to catch the 22.45 Peterborough).
Power supply was cut south of the station and nothing ran for about 10 mins before southbound was running again. Nothing was running northbound for nearly half an hour though. Luckily he headed to Kings Cross for the 23.06.

Good thing i had primed him about the game of St Pancras, Kings Cross roulette as the 22.45 was capped at London Bridge!

After looking at RTT tonight, it looks like yesterdays culprit might of been 9S64 21:08 Brighton - Cambridge. As it seems to have sat down at Blackfriars !

1 Early at Blackfriars Jcn and 72 Late at Blackfriars itself.

Looking at other services which went through the core late last night, it makes grim reading. 49 Late, 51 Late and 55 Late !

So much for new travel opportunities!!

Can we on GN just have a reliable train service back!! I don't want to go to Horsham or Brighton! If im going anywhere it involves going to or through London. And im happy using the tube or changing trains.

As a passenger waiting at City Thameslink....it was diabolical service and communications.

The problem wasn't the Cambridge train. The issue was north of City Thameslink. In terms of the first trains blocked to my knowledge, a West Hampstead was taken out of service into I think the Snow Hill sidings. The Cambridge train was cancelled when it was at City Thameslink (and then uncanceled - see below). But while it said this on the screen, the train and the driver didn't seem to know this and it was around half an hour of doing nothing.

There were no announcements on platforms to customers. Station staff were entirely ineffective - providing mixed messages and unhelpful advice. In their very limited defence, it was also very clear there were getting almost zero comms from any central function and there was some quite hopeless incident management and communication going on higher up.

The problem was essentially no electrics on the northbound from City Tx to an unspecified point (i.e. at least Farringdon, possibly further). Loads of southbound trains went through. After what seemed like an hour, eventually these were paused and northbound trains were run up the southbound tracks.

However, from a City Tx perspective - this was not announced to customers. The station manager mentioned it as a vague possibility after we'd managed to summon him from his office, but that even if it did happen the trains wouldn't stop at City Tx and the doors wouldn't open, not least at the station was meant to be closed by this point). Were were eventually advised to get on the Cambridge train which would be reversing back to Blackfriars. (The Cambridge driver was good at comms within the constraints).

I think the data is probably just very confused - in terms of platforms through the core, it went Blackfriars (North), City (North), Blackfriars (South), City (South), Farringdon (South), St P (South). It was back to normal for the subsequent stations.

While still speaking...a Bedford bound train appeared on the 'wrong' platform at City and lo-and-behold opened its doors. However, no one could get on due to being on the wrong platform. I don't think any of us took the risk of changing platforms in case another appeared - again, not a single announcement from staff on this.

Another one or two Bedford trains rapidly appeared (again, we were on wrong platform...).

In terms of my personal journey, I got the Cambridge train back to Blackfriars. That waited for a while then went North. I changed at St P for a Bedford train. Unfortunately, in GTR's infinite wisdom - the calling pattern didn't change. So this was a slow "all stations" train (staff still call them all stations) but didn't stop at Harpenden, Leagrave, Flitwick or Harlington. So a group of very tired passengers, buggies, and kids, had to change in Luton. To our great relief (and a huge amount of luck at this point), this only required a 5 minute wait and no change of platform.

In contrast, the lady on the St Pancras platforms was incredibly good although she also lacked information from above.

 

[tsr]

The driver dispatches him/herself on the TL side so the safety messages and whistle blowing isn't connected. The trains should go on time when ahead of schedule, or as soon as is safe when late. The platform staff are there to assist but can't delay things.

It’s truly bizarre watching platform staff make “please stand clear” announcements and blowing whistles even though they have not the foggiest idea about the driver’s view of what’s going on at that point during dispatch. New/inexperienced staff could well blow whistles when there’s a red signal at the end of the platform, et cetera - all an extra risk for the driver whenever they hear such cues, as they are normally associated with safe dispatch (even though whistles are not a Rule Book requirement during dispatch and don’t even strictly speaking have to be used for dispatch of GTR trains!).

Are there figures showing this?

If so, it's a great shame - Southern did a great job of growing leisure travel in their previous incarnation as NSR.

Southern did far too well at that in its previous era as New Southern Railway. There actually became a drastic need to reduce passenger numbers at the time GTR was brought onto the scene - internally, it was at crisis point. It shouldn’t have been resolved this way... but nobody would deny it’s worked.

 

[Mikey C]

the weekend service is embarrassing. I'm going to Stevenage today by bus, despite the fact it's over double the cost.

The Saturday service through the core is pathetic, all that money and inconvenience, and currently we have a worse service than before...

 

[Fred26]

It’s truly bizarre watching platform staff make “please stand clear” announcements and blowing whistles even though they have not the foggiest idea about the driver’s view of what’s going on at that point during dispatch. New/inexperienced staff could well blow whistles when there’s a red signal at the end of the platform, et cetera - all an extra risk for the driver whenever they hear such cues, as they are normally associated with safe dispatch (even though whistles are not a Rule Book requirement during dispatch and don’t even strictly speaking have to be used for dispatch of GTR trains!).

GTR requires platform staff do this, they aren't doing it for the fun of it. It makes no sense to me either, but it is company policy.
As to blowing a whistle on a red light, that shouldn't happen. All those staff are safety critical dispatch staff, even if they aren't always dispatching.

 

[Failed Unit]

Are there figures showing this?

If so, it's a great shame - Southern did a great job of growing leisure travel in their previous incarnation as NSR.

No figures yet. Just less people on trains and platforms now is visible. This time last year when the service was half hourly on a Saturday you physically struggled to get onboard a train. Now you have half full trains on an hourly service.

 

[Agent_Squash]

Are there figures showing this?

If so, it's a great shame - Southern did a great job of growing leisure travel in their previous incarnation as NSR.

Southern hasn't been hit badly by the TL shambles in particular - in fact, there's been some significant improvements on their side (as you would expect considering they operate 66% of the services in GTR!)

 

[bionic]

GTR requires platform staff do this, they aren't doing it for the fun of it. It makes no sense to me either, but it is company policy.
As to blowing a whistle on a red light, that shouldn't happen. All those staff are safety critical dispatch staff, even if they aren't always dispatching.

Getting rid of CD/RA dispatch at Blackfriars and City etc was negotiated by ASLEF as part of the latest GTR paydeal. Let's have a few more quid and sod the fact that we are putting our members at risk and under added pressure from PTI and dispatch incidents. Its even in contradiction of ASLEF's own charter which states "no extension of DOO". In my opinion platform dispatch should have been EXTENDED to Farringdon and St Pancras - especially Farringdon - instead of removed from other locations.

Class 700 monitors don't show people running up from the entrance at the rear of the train when a left hand side release is put up so a driver is completely blind to this. You could have a large party of children, people with disabilities, pushchairs, luggage etc. The driver is completely blind to anything beyond the last set of doors. With a right hand side release the driver can see but there are none in the core except under degraded conditions.

But I'm just a dinosaur. Don't let my outdated views on safety stand in the way of Thameslink 2000!

 

[Fred26]

Getting rid of CD/RA dispatch at Blackfriars and City etc was negotiated by ASLEF as part of the latest GTR paydeal. Let's have a few more quid and sod the fact that we are putting our members at risk and under added pressure from PTI and dispatch incidents. Its even in contradiction of ASLEF's own charter which states "no extension of DOO". In my opinion platform dispatch should have been EXTENDED to Farringdon and St Pancras - especially Farringdon - instead of removed from other locations.

Class 700 monitors don't show people running up from the entrance at the rear of the train when a left hand side release is put up so a driver is completely blind to this. You could have a large party of children, people with disabilities, pushchairs, luggage etc. The driver is completely blind to anything beyond the last set of doors. With a right hand side release the driver can see but there are none in the core except under degraded conditions.

But I'm just a dinosaur. Don't let my outdated views on safety stand in the way of Thameslink 2000!

I agree completely.