Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[NorthKent1989]

So it looks like the one Thameslink per hour on the Medway route is pretty permanent it seems off peak, one train an hour I might add if this continues to the future Crossrail interchange from later this year among other interchanges on the North Kent/Greenwich lines, it’s like they’ve given up on this neck of the woods.

 

[ijmad]

So it looks like the one Thameslink per hour on the Medway route is pretty permanent it seems off peak, one train an hour I might add if this continues to the future Crossrail interchange from later this year among other interchanges on the North Kent/Greenwich lines, it’s like they’ve given up on this neck of the woods.

Should never have been in that necks of the woods in the first place.

 

[Mikey C]

So it looks like the one Thameslink per hour on the Medway route is pretty permanent it seems off peak, one train an hour I might add if this continues to the future Crossrail interchange from later this year among other interchanges on the North Kent/Greenwich lines, it’s like they’ve given up on this neck of the woods.

I'm sure the second train will emerge eventually...in the fullness of time...

 

[NorthKent1989]

Should never have been in that necks of the woods in the first place.

I quite agree, there is no real purpose in having Thameslink shoe horned into the Greenwich/NK lines, all its done is make journey times slower.

I'm sure the second train will emerge eventually...in the fullness of time...

I'm sure one will, probably in the year 2040 at this rate.

 

[MML]

I thought the franchise commitment was for the provision of more overnight trains (half hourly between Gatwick and Bedford) to improve connectivity between the airports and central London.
Has that now been abandoned with the new timetable ?
There is a 6 hour gap between London and Luton Airport Parkway on Sunday mornings, making it impossible to get to the airport for early morning departures. I guess engineering work has to be done sometime, but I'm sure there isn't a requirement to close all lines every weekend.
All the investment yet we still can't operate a truly 24/7 railway fit for modern travel requirements.

 

[bramling]

I quite agree, there is no real purpose in having Thameslink shoe horned into the Greenwich/NK lines, all its done is make journey times slower.



I'm sure one will, probably in the year 2040 at this rate.

Well, my train home was right-time tonight (early actually). A look at OTT clearly showed why - the ThamesLink/ that’s normally late and holds it up was so late that it ran behind my train tonight, giving a clear run.

The only time this railway gets anything right is by mistake?

 

[Bedpan]

I thought the franchise commitment was for the provision of more overnight trains (half hourly between Gatwick and Bedford) to improve connectivity between the airports and central London.
Has that now been abandoned with the new timetable ?
There is a 6 hour gap between London and Luton Airport Parkway on Sunday mornings, making it impossible to get to the airport for early morning departures. I guess engineering work has to be done sometime, but I'm sure there isn't a requirement to close all lines every weekend.
All the investment yet we still can't operate a truly 24/7 railway fit for modern travel requirements.

There never has been an overnight service in the Sunday timetable. Even though I know this I have been caught out a couple of times, once when I got back top Luton airport late on a Saturday evening, (forgetting that affter midnight on a Saturday is in fact Sunday) and again when I was catching a flight out of Gatwick at 9ish on a Sunday morning.

 

[MML]

There never has been an overnight service in the Sunday timetable. Even though I know this I have been caught out a couple of times, once when I got back top Luton airport late on a Saturday evening, (forgetting that affter midnight on a Saturday is in fact Sunday) and again when I was catching a flight out of Gatwick at 9ish on a Sunday morning.

Indeed. Arrivals late at night and departures from 6am are simply not catered for by Thameslink/ 2020. I just cannot understand the mentality. Sundays are now just another day in the airport world, so why does a modern railway not cater for this need.
It even impacts those going for a Saturday night out in London, with a mad-dash for the last train home around midnight.
The DfT should be stipulating a minimum service requirement throughout the whole week.

An hourly Luton to Gatwick Airport - all stations to London St Pancras
and
An hourly Bedford to Gatwick Airport - all stations to St Albans, West Hampstead, St Pancras
giving a roughly half hourly service between Luton Airport and Gatwick Airport should suffice.

Not insurmountable in 2018 surely ?

 

[Agent_Squash]

Indeed. Arrivals late at night and departures from 6am are simply not catered for by Thameslink/ 2020. I just cannot understand the mentality. Sundays are now just another day in the airport world, so why does a modern railway not cater for this need.
It even impacts those going for a Saturday night out in London, with a mad-dash for the last train home around midnight.
The DfT should be stipulating a minimum service requirement throughout the whole week.

An hourly Luton to Gatwick Airport - all stations to London St Pancras
and
An hourly Bedford to Gatwick Airport - all stations to St Albans, West Hampstead, St Pancras
giving a roughly half hourly service between Luton Airport and Gatwick Airport should suffice.

Not insurmountable in 2018 surely ?

The reason there are no services is because the core is closed for maintenance.

The Thameslink Programme can’t work miracles like getting rid of that need to maintain the track.

 

[MML]

The reason there are no services is because the core is closed for maintenance.

The Thameslink Programme can’t work miracles like getting rid of that need to maintain the track.

I suppose it is now one of the most intensively worked pieces of dual track on the network but I'm surprised it needs to happen every week. Trains to St Pancras High Level and London Bridge would at least assist. A rail replacement bus was always used in the past when the core was closed. I remember a journey to Kentish Town on a double decker. Certainly better than no train at all.

 

[swt_passenger]

I quite agree, there is no real purpose in having Thameslink shoe horned into the Greenwich/NK lines, all its done is make journey times slower...

The very ‘real purpose’ was to slightly reduce the number of services via New Cross Gate and East Croydon. I’m sure you know that, you just like repeating your original rant from a couple of years back.

 

[bramling]

The very ‘real purpose’ was to slightly reduce the number of services via New Cross Gate and East Croydon. I’m sure you know that, you just like repeating your original rant from a couple of years back.

Or to put it another way, the very ‘real purpose’ was to find somewhere else to stuff Thameslink Programme services because their original proposals were undeliverable in the real world.

Perhaps we should be grateful that in this small area at least this was realised before rather than after trying to launch a timetable.

Talk about tail wagging the dog, but the longer-term legacy of Caterham / Tottenham Corner is of course now 8-car Undesiros on largely 12-car infrastructure.

 

[swt_passenger]

Or to put it another way, the very ‘real purpose’ was to find somewhere else to stuff Thameslink Programme services because their original proposals were undeliverable in the real world...

Well I wasn’t claiming that it was a good reason. Just that there isn’t ‘no reason’, but anyway their rationale for it has been discussed many times before so let’s not do it again.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Well, my train home was right-time tonight (early actually). A look at OTT clearly showed why - the ThamesLink/ that’s normally late and holds it up was so late that it ran behind my train tonight, giving a clear run.

The only time this railway gets anything right is by mistake?

It looks that way, perhaps they should memorise the mistakes and try to keep things that way if it provides something better! Can't be worse than what we have now

The very ‘real purpose’ was to slightly reduce the number of services via New Cross Gate and East Croydon. I’m sure you know that, you just like repeating your original rant from a couple of years back.

Yes I am aware of the Windmill Junction hoo har I am also aware the purpose of the London Bridge rebuild was to iron out the conflicting lines and keep things nice and simple.

Would you rather I started another thread on this subject? Since your rather pedantic about that aren't you

I see a lot of repetition on this particular thread from posters, doesn't mean I have the right to belittle or patronise their issue I was simply responding to another poster, so do not patronise me

 

[bspahh]

The reason there are no services is because the core is closed for maintenance.

The Thameslink Programme can’t work miracles like getting rid of that need to maintain the track.

In Paris, the RER A line has been closed for maintenance between Nation and La Défense for a month A local said that they had done this every August for the last decade.
https://www.garda.com/crisis24/news...-commuter-train-service-disruptions-in-august

 

[Agent_Squash]

In Paris, the RER A line has been closed for maintenance between Nation and La Défense for a month A local said that they had done this every August for the last decade.
https://www.garda.com/crisis24/news...-commuter-train-service-disruptions-in-august

So providing no service for a whole month is better than 8 hours on a Sunday morning?

 

[radamfi]

So providing no service for a whole month is better than 8 hours on a Sunday morning?

They could run a replacement bus service when there is no train service, which is presumably what they do in Paris. There is no service at all to/from St Albans (for example) for those 8 hours, not even a bus, whereas they have a 24/7 service between East Croydon and Three Bridges.

 

[jon0844]

Besides those eight hours, the airport gets a pretty good service the rest of the time. It's quite easy to take this info account when booking a flight surely?

After all, this has nothing to do with the new timetable or anything.

 

[bramling]

Besides those eight hours, the airport gets a pretty good service the rest of the time. It's quite easy to take this info account when booking a flight surely?

After all, this has nothing to do with the new timetable or anything.

I don’t really think there should be any push to further increase services until they can get the May timetable running reliably, then the priority should be on delivering promises like the second Cambridge. At the moment we see all the negatives without much in the way of positives. My views about the deliverability of all this are well documented elsewhere!

On the GN side there are already pretty late services, which this timetable has enhanced by providing greater capacity. Surely that’s good enough? Personally I’d prefer an earlier service into London on Sundays, but this is of course the main engineering window. Any kind of fit-for-use Sunday service at present would of course be nice!

 

[Failed Unit]

Personally I’d prefer an earlier service into London on Sundays, but this is of course the main engineering window. Any kind of weekend service at present would of course be nice!

Correction made.

 

[NorthKent1989]

I don’t really think there should be any push to further increase services until they can get the May timetable running reliably, then the priority should be on delivering promises like the second Cambridge. At the moment we see all the negatives without much in the way of positives. My views about the deliverability of all this are well documented elsewhere!

On the GN side there are already pretty late services, which this timetable has enhanced by providing greater capacity. Surely that’s good enough? Personally I’d prefer an earlier service into London on Sundays, but this is of course the main engineering window. Any kind of fit-for-use Sunday service at present would of course be nice!

Aren’t we on the July timetable now? I’m not sure, you do raise a good point, any increases in services ie the Sevenoaks route extension to WGC and the Cambridge to Maidstone/Ashford Route should be delayed until 2020 at the latest, sort this mess out first then think about other additions, best case scenario that this current mess doesn’t extend too far (though it may be too late already) I think a lot of people would be happy for the delay to the additions, Thameslink can work out its existing quirks on its existing network.

 

[CMS]

Deleted

 

[Kanrakuq]

Some of the skip stopping's a bit odd. 0555 Kings Cross to Cambridge North skip stopped WGC because it was five minutes late, then drove through Welwyn North two minutes late and then also failed to stop at Knebworth despite arriving at the station bang on time. Not sure the passengers would have been very impressed to have to wait another half an hour for that.

 

[jon0844]

Some of the skip stopping's a bit odd. 0555 Kings Cross to Cambridge North skip stopped WGC because it was five minutes late, then drove through Welwyn North two minutes late and then also failed to stop at Knebworth despite arriving at the station bang on time. Not sure the passengers would have been very impressed to have to wait another half an hour for that.

I assume it would have delayed a train at Welwyn North so skipping there sort of makes sense, but WGC or Knebworth? And I hope the driver was told to tell passengers for WGC get off at Potters Bar and take a stopper, instead of hoping to get a train back from Stevenage (rarely a good connection for change of direction).

 

[philjo]

Had a bonus this evening - noticed there was a 19:23 GN service from Stevenage to Kings Cross only. So I let the Horsham train go. KX service was a 12 coach 365 - presumably in service as otherwise it would be ECS from Peterborough. I was the only passenger in the front unit! At kings cross it looked like about a dozen other people alighting further back

 

[387star]

Previous posts here have claimed that there's been no driver training going on in the past few weeks.

London Bridge training never really stopped and AFAIK most non GN side drivers now sign the new route and many non GN side drivers if not all sign the canal tunnels if they are assigned the route

I guess GN side drivers are the bulk of those still to learn it as it forms their route south of the river for which training is at a halt as is south of the river learning GN side

 

[bramling]

Had a bonus this evening - noticed there was a 19:23 GN service from Stevenage to Kings Cross only. So I let the Horsham train go. KX service was a 12 coach 365 - presumably in service as otherwise it would be ECS from Peterborough. I was the only passenger in the front unit! At kings cross it looked like about a dozen other people alighting further back

Staff at my station just now making a big point about the Peterborough service being delayed due to a late freight train. Naturally a look at RTTT shows the delay was picked up in the Gatwick area, so a classic case of a delay that wouldn’t have happened before May.

 

[sprunt]

London Bridge training never really stopped and AFAIK most non GN side drivers now sign the new route and many non GN side drivers if not all sign the canal tunnels if they are assigned the route

Can you explain what "sign" means in this context?

(Incidentally, if there's a glossary anywhere out there of the rail industry jargon of the type frequently used on this forum, I'd be grateful for a link to it.)

 

[30907]

Can you explain what "sign" means in this context?

(Incidentally, if there's a glossary anywhere out there of the rail industry jargon of the type frequently used on this forum, I'd be grateful for a link to it.)

Sign - confirm (by a signature or equivalent) that they are competent to drive this route/this type of train. Nothing to do with using sign language.

 

[sprunt]

Thanks.