Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[Busaholic]

I don’t get how he still has a job

Which one?!

 

[Antman]

In theory yes, but the problem is is that Medway commuters rely on the vast interchanges on the Woolwich line, the DLR, Jubilee line and Crossrail all intersect or are very near to the Woolwich line, the Sidcup line doesn't offer anything like that at all, also Thameslink need Gillingham depot, because Gravesend/Hoo Junction has apparently been safeguarded for a future Crossrail extension which may not happen for another ten years at the earliest!

What should happen is that they should extend the new CX to Dartford service via Lewisham and Woolwich to Gillingham, in addition to the Thameslink service, have the CX service skip Northfleet, Swanscombe, Stone, Slade Green, Erith, Belvedere and Dockyard and have the Thameslink service call at those stations, that way everyone wins.

I have heard rumours that after 2019 Thameslink will review the Rainham service, as they have taken into account the effect Crossrail may have, will usage at certain stations near to Abbey Wood or Woolwich Crossrail fall? Or will people change at Abbey Wood for Crossrail, it has been predicted that demand for Crossrail will be pretty high from day one and let's not forget that the Abbey Wood branch will be the one that will have services that will actually reach outer West London, Heathrow and Reading, not to mention that Crossrail from Abbey Wood to Farringdon will be much quicker than Thameslink to Farringdon via Greenwich.

For me I've resigned myself to sitting on hard plastic seats on a train that sounds like the sound effect for a UFO in a 1950s b movie and a much longer commute for the forseable future until things change

I see what you mean about connections at Woolwich Arsenal but it could be said that similar connections are available at Stratford on the HS albeit at a higher fare.

Hopefully Crossrail will eventually get to Medway with Southeastern curtailed at Abbey Wood or Dartford.

A friend of mine who works for Southeastern said some people are a bit confused and think that the new Thameslink service is the opening of Crossrail.

 

[Victor C]

Wow.



Source

 

[gallafent]

No way can that be driven in 90 minutes, even in the middle of the night.

Tomtom estimates 1h35m (including all the stops), so it shouldn't be far off, though, depending on driver's skill, route knowledge, and enthusiasm, and at what speed the coach's limiter is set …

Ah, I see it's actually timetabled for 96 minutes. Should be fine then

 

[theironroad]

Wow.

View attachment 47036

Source

Thanks for posting that. I didn't know it was possible to get live public ppm stats.

 

[sefton]

I see Great Northern have finally put out a "we ****ed up today" message with the subtext of "**** knows what is happening tomorrow".

 

[mmh]

No way can that be driven in 90 minutes, even in the middle of the night.

It seems reasonable enough to me. What part of it do you think can't be done? I used to work near Waterloo and live in Croydon and commute by a semi-fast type of bus, 40 minutes in the middle of the night for that part is perfectly doable

 

[London Trains]

It seems reasonable enough to me. What part of it do you think can't be done? I used to work near Waterloo and live in Croydon and commute by a semi-fast type of bus, 40 minutes in the middle of the night for that part is perfectly doable

Seems about right. You mean the X68 bus don't you?

 

[Antman]

Seems about right. You mean the X68 bus don't you?

The X68 doesn't operate in the middle of the night.

 

[Ianno87]

The X68 doesn't operate in the middle of the night.

The night route - the N68 (http://londonbusroutes.net/times/N068.htm) offers those sorts of timings.

 

[London Trains]

The night route - the N68 (http://londonbusroutes.net/times/N068.htm) offers those sorts of timings.

Oh Yeah, got it confused with the day bus!

 

[mmh]

Seems about right. You mean the X68 bus don't you?

Yup! Unless it was a day with bad traffic it could do the non-stop part between Waterloo and West Norwood in around 20 minutes, and that was in rush hour. The stopping part (I got off at Selhurst Park / Crystal Palace's football ground) took longer than the express part.

 

[gingerheid]

I'm intrigued to see what will happen tomorrow (if they do run the trains), particularly in terms of platform overcrowding.

The Thameslink core is not used to having large numbers of people waiting around for infrequent services. For example, it looks like previously the unluckiest man in the world would have struggled to spend more than 15m on a northbound platform during rush hour, and he wouldn't have had a lot of company as only people travelling to three lesser used stations would have had to wait that length of time with him.

From tomorrow a large number of people travelling to a lot of destinations may be waiting with him, and for longer. This isn't a normal feature of metro-style operations with enclosed platforms with restricted space.

 

[MikeWM]

As I'm apparently quite bored tonight, here's a quick analysis I've just done of the GN outers today (data from RTT) compared with the timetable:

Southbound:

- 16 'fast' Kings Lynn -> Kings Cross - all ran (!) though some arrived quite late (presumably through added stops)
- 15 'slow' Cambridge -> Kings Cross - 6 cancelled, 2 terminated short, 7 ran as planned
- 3 'semi-fast' early morning Cambridge -> Kings Cross - all 3 ran
- 15 'semi-fast' Cambridge -> Gatwick/Three Bridges - 11 cancelled, 2 appear to have terminated short, 2 ran as planned
- 5 early morning/late evening Peterborough -> Kings Cross - all 5 ran
- 13 Peterborough -> Horsham - 8 cancelled, 3 stopped short, 2 ran as planned

In summary - 79% of services to KGX ran as planned, compared to 14% (!) through the core.



Northbound:

- 15 'fast' Kings Cross -> Kings Lynn - all ran as planned
- 18 'slow' Kings Cross -> Cambridge - 6 cancelled, 12 ran as planned (assuming the 0002 runs)
- 2 'semi-fast' early morning Kings Cross -> Cambridge - both ran
- 14 'semi-fast' Gatwick -> Cambridge - 11 cancelled, 3 ran as planned (though one was about 45 late at Cambridge)
- 5 early morning/late evening Kings Cross -> Peterborough - all 5 ran (assuming the 0039/0139 run)
- 14 Horsham -> Peterborough - 9 cancelled, 2 started short, 3 ran as planned.

In summary - 85% of services from KGX ran as planned, compared to 21% (!) through the core.



Overall, about one in six trains scheduled to go to/from KGX were cancelled today - a bit of a disaster.
But about five in six trains scheduled to go through the core, didn't - I think that must qualify as a complete meltdown. And, err, isn't running through the core the point of the whole exercise?

 

[southernyoshi]

I can see this timetable getting junked again temporarily if this keeps on happening in too many weekday peaks. Do GTR know how many drivers they've got?!

 

[BluePenguin]

I can see this timetable getting junked again temporarily if this keeps on happening in too many weekday peaks. Do GTR know how many drivers they've got?!

No I don't think they do. At least they thought they knew how many were prepared to work on their rest day.

 

[jon0844]

I can see this timetable getting junked again temporarily if this keeps on happening in too many weekday peaks. Do GTR know how many drivers they've got?!

Today they had a LOT fewer. Hence some trains from the core terminated at Finsbury Park with nobody to take them further north.

One driver told me of militancy within a certain depot, which goes back to my earlier comment about there being some people who may have had reason to want to make sure today went t*ts up to prove a point*. I am sure in the coming days/weeks, we'll learn more. What's more, the opinion of this one driver is apparently shared by others who no doubt feel like they're all going to be blamed and tarred with the same brush, when there are of course multiple factors at play and it's not quite that easy.

I wouldn't be surprised if GTR seeks to blame drivers for damage limitation, although it might be unwise given the need to have drivers to run the new timetable!

(It was said that some drivers may have called in sick.. but I cannot confirm that)

 

[otomous]

It seems there are still a lot of drivers that can't take trains all the way from TL to GN and vice versa. So trains are terminating early, as there is no driver to take it further.

Lots of trains were apparently coming out the core to FPK and ending there. I assume the same in the opposite direction. It's such a mess, I don't fancy looking back to see every single train movement - although perhaps that's not too difficult given the number of cancellations!

This might explain the planned cancellations until June, as GTR now realise they can only plan on the drivers they HAVE got, not those they are hoping may do some rest day work or cancel annual leave etc.

Any investigation will have to look at how the training went to have enough drivers ready, as well as how rostering had planned for this event to make sure they weren't relying on volunteers. There might also be a need to check if any union recommended not doing overtime/RDW to mess things up for political gain!

Everyone has been terrified of the new timetable and workings for years, and it would certainly suit some people to have it turn into a dumpster fire as it appears has happened.

That said, my fears were more for issues of disruption caused by the public, trains broken down, signal failures/wiring issues and how the service recovers etc - not what has actually happened that should and must have been predicted and could have been sorted months ahead of time.

Having a load of spare drivers for the first few days/weeks would have been very sensible. Offering sufficient incentives, as a one off, given how important the changes are.

No trade union is legally able to instruct members to withdraw labour in this way. There would have to be a specific valid dispute and a ballot of members as to whether they agree to such action. If members are choosing not to volunteer when they are not rostered, that is a personal matter.

 

[jon0844]

No trade union is legally able to instruct members to withdraw labour in this way. There would have to be a specific valid dispute and a ballot of members as to whether they agree to such action. If members are choosing not to volunteer when they are not rostered, that is a personal matter.

I never mentioned the union as giving any advice to anyone.

The suggestion is that some drivers deliberately didn't volunteer to RDW to help make sure things went wrong. As is their right (not to work).

But if any went sick, that's another matter. I am sure all will become clear in the coming days because I can see that a potential for some weeks of disruption will mean someone being called to answer questions by the Government very soon.

And as they say, don't shoot the messenger!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Today they had a LOT fewer. Hence some trains from the core terminated at Finsbury Park with nobody to take them further north.

One driver told me of militancy within a certain depot, which goes back to my earlier comment about there being some people who may have had reason to want to make sure today went t*ts up to prove a point*. I am sure in the coming days/weeks, we'll learn more. What's more, the opinion of this one driver is apparently shared by others who no doubt feel like they're all going to be blamed and tarred with the same brush, when there are of course multiple factors at play and it's not quite that easy.

I wouldn't be surprised if GTR seeks to blame drivers for damage limitation, although it might be unwise given the need to have drivers to run the new timetable!

(It was said that some drivers may have called in sick.. but I cannot confirm that)

Knowing the men and women of the route as I think I do, I can say this: Anybody who doesn’t want to work a Sunday can almost certainly chuck them in. The pay deal made drivers work only 8 in 52. The likelihood that people had this Sunday and chose to go sick is very unlikely.

I also don’t know which depot to which you refer but I know of none on the route that I would consider ‘militant’ although one has strong views of things. That depot would have spent today on the 313s and the lack of service on the Inners tells me that’s a total lack of Sunday drivers who took the opportunity, as is their right, to have a barbecue this afternoon.

The shambles that is GN/TL has been brewing for years. Even now trainees are being made to do ‘front end turns’ instead of actually going out and learning their trade because the company doesn’t know its a**e from its elbow. Worse still, this is a management contract where the Government just lets GTR get on with it and when’s GTR cock it up, much like the driver training, they simply tell DfT there was nothing else that could be done and it gets swallowed.

Any company that recruits new drives and manages to have trainees waiting for a DI for as long as 12 months to the extent they have to do traction courses again is the problem - not a bit of borderline disdain for the firm from drivers at any depot or the drivers themselves.

And with that, I shall sit at home tomorrow and watch the s**t hit the fan.

 

[jon0844]

1P81, a stand in for the lack of 9J01 later this morning (was due to begin from Tuesday), is cancelled.

9J01 is the only Peterborough to Horsham train to call at WGC (a 12 car 700) and clearly an operational service for staff.

I wonder if this will have any impact on services?

 

[jon0844]

Of all the messages they could have today, this is rather odd. Almost Virgin Trains East Coast social media account bizarre.

There's a message about hot weather (is it going to be that hot today?) and they've added a bit about treating yourself to an ice cream.

Now unless GTR is handing them out this morning, I'm not convinced people will be smiling!

 

[radamfi]

0514 Three Bridges to Bedford doesn't appear to be stopping at London Bridge.

 

[USBT]

0514 Three Bridges to Bedford doesn't appear to be stopping at London Bridge.

The 0630 and 0730 Brighton-Cambridge's are canceled.

 

[Kanrakuq]

The Peterborough-Horsham train arriving at 0704 at Arlesey has been cancelled. Given that the 0634 one had already been jettisoned anyway and isn't timetabled for another two weeks, it will mean that if the 0734 one arrives, there will not have been any trains going south stopping at the station since the 0604 90 minutes earlier.

I thought they would at least put some effort into the rush hour.

 

[JonathanH]

A points failure appears to have trapped a load of 700s at Three Bridges causing a number of Gatwick to Peterborough trains to be cancelled.

In their wisdom, there is no direct train from Clapham Junction to Gatwick Airport from 0601 to 0643 - suffice to say the 4-coach 0636 London Victoria to Bognor Regis was rather busy when it got to Clapham Junction / East Croydon. People don't realise that the operators intend them to change trains at East Croydon when once there were trains every quarter hour from Victoria to Gatwick (which weren't Gatwick Express).

 

[Retorus]

The Peterborough-Horsham train arriving at 0704 at Arlesey has been cancelled. Given that the 0634 one had already been jettisoned anyway and isn't timetabled for another two weeks, it will mean that if the 0734 one arrives, there will not have been any trains going south stopping at the station since the 0604 90 minutes earlier.

I thought they would at least put some effort into the rush hour.

It really is an appalling start to the new services.

 

[USBT]

The first four trains due to run north through the Canal Tunnels have been canceled. They were the 0506 and 0605 Brighton-Cambridge's***, the 0607 Three Bridges-Peterborough and 0643 Gatwick-Peterborough.

However, things are now moving. the 0707 Brighton-Cambridge has departed on time, and the 0713 Gatwick-Peterborough has just departed (4 minutes late).

*** - Apologies about my earlier post. The 0630 and 0730 timings were from St. Pancras.

 

[gingerheid]

The first three trains from Cambridge to Brighton left, but mine is cancelled (though was showing as running at 5am). The next stopper from Cambridge North to Finsbury Park is cancelled too, though as I'm here early I can get the fast to London. That's advertised as Cambridge. We don't know if that's an error or cancellation.

There's also a new station on the board for the King's Lynn train; LTLPL22.

Where were the people that called us realists doomsayers?

 

[DaveN]

06:34 Bedford to East Grinstead has been terminated at St Albans. No seats at Flitwick presumably because of former EMT Bedford customers not realising they need to get to Bedford earlier for their new Thameslink train