Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[IrishDave]

Is this one of the first times in years that Southeastern has ran via Redhill?

They ran via Redhill on Good Friday and Easter Monday earlier this year.

However, that was the first time in a while they were running those trains into Charing Cross; between 2015 and 2017 they occasionally ran via Redhill but had to terminate at London Bridge low level.

 

[Failed Unit]

Agree. On the two Cambridge-Brighton peak trains I got this week, easily one third of the passengers (probably a little higher in fact) who were on the train at Finsbury Park remained on after St Pancras. Most no further than Blackfriars, but a few stragglers (including myself) to London Bridge (which you'd expect as a link only newly reinstated).

It's a fallacy to pretend that no passengers benefit from cross-London running, who are, as always, the least vocal in being the biggest beneficiaries.

How many times did you use it this week? I attempted 5 return journeys all failures. First day was going to connect into Peterborough- Horsham service at Finsbury Park but it was sat platform 2 with no driver so change at Kings cross / St Pancras instead.

IF they ever deliver what is promised I will rarely use St Pancras and use one of the core stations. However it is still a big IF WGC ever sees direct trains into the core at a reasonable frequency.

Look at the PPM today. Just a bit of a mess. That is based on the emergency timetable I guess.

 

[55003]

No trains serving any of the intermediate stations between Redhill and Tonbridge today because it is alleged Southern forgot to book any of the paths.

 

[MarkieMark]

How many times did you use it this week? I attempted 5 return journeys all failures. First day was going to connect into Peterborough- Horsham service at Finsbury Park but it was sat platform 2 with no driver so change at Kings cross / St Pancras instead.

IF they ever deliver what is promised I will rarely use St Pancras and use one of the core stations. However it is still a big IF WGC ever sees direct trains into the core at a reasonable frequency.

Look at the PPM today. Just a bit of a mess. That is based on the emergency timetable I guess.

According to the PPM at the moment 96% of Thameslink Kent Outer have been delayed by over 30 minutes/cancelled. That figure is truly shocking!

 

[MikeWM]

Genuinely been getting Greater Anglia Only tickets between Cambridge and London, I don't mind the extra 20 odd minutes.

Me too, when I’m not pushed for time - eg. yesterday.

Today time is a little more pressing, hence my gambling on GN. Looks like we’re going to be more-or-less on time at KingsX at least (!).

 

[bramling]

Agree. On the two Cambridge-Brighton peak trains I got this week, easily one third of the passengers (probably a little higher in fact) who were on the train at Finsbury Park remained on after St Pancras. Most no further than Blackfriars, but a few stragglers (including myself) to London Bridge (which you'd expect as a link only newly reinstated).

It's a fallacy to pretend that no passengers benefit from cross-London running, who are, as always, the least vocal in being the biggest beneficiaries.

Nobody is pretending nobody benefits from the through journey opportunities.

However, these opportunities come with a cost - a substantial risk to performance. It’s not reasonable for this to be imposed on everyone who has happily used the service for many years and built plans around a reliable service.

Whilst the so-called teething issues no doubt will be worked through eventually, there will still be a legacy of unreliability. Based on this week it’s quite clear this unreliability will be severe at times, as the increased risk and impact of late running and incidents causes reactionary delays to spiral.

Just run a half and half core and non-core service and everyone will be happy. As posted elsewhere, I suspect this will be the eventual result anyway. Those that want the through journeys, unreliability and uncomfortable cramped seats can have it, and those that don’t want to buy in to this don’t have to.

How about an off-peak service of:
1tph KX to Cambridge semi-fast
1tph KX to Peterborough semi-fast
1tph KX to Kings Lynn fast
1tph Brighton to Cambridge semi-fast
1tph Horsham to Peterborough semi-fast
1tph Gatwick to Ely fast
1tph Maidstone to Letchworth stopping
1tph KX to Cambridge North stopping

On a different note, are there any 365s out today? I note from RTTT many of the Peterborough services are originating from Nene sidings, and are booked into the suburban platforms at KX. There aren’t any Reduced length undesiros booked to finish at Peterborough now, so this would point towards 365s or 387s and only 6x 387s stable at Peterborough which doesn’t make up much.

 

[Fred26]

It does show a really bad neglect in duty of care to staff members like yourself. They are misleading passengers and Charles Horton is sat in his office thinking he is doing a wonderful job. Meanwhile anyone that interfaces with the customer is getting the passengers frustration. I really feel for the front line staff.

Also hate the way they are doing everything possible to deflect the situation by blaming network rail / rmt / aslef.

I hope the truth is exposed.

You've only got to look at the abuse staff took at Hitchin two nights ago when passengers refused to let the train leave unless its stops were reinstated. I support their protest but some of them spoke to staff using truly vile remarks, which just isn't on. Sooner or later staff will be physically assaulted. I know of a handful of frontline staff who have gone off with stress already. It's too much.

This company has utter contempt for its staff (and passengers). Morale has been rock bottom for a long time, but it is worse now. Frontline staff get no support from higher management - just lies and soundbites.
Everyone moans about the TOC they work for, but I've worked for a few now and GTR is the worst by a long, long way. The warning signs were there from day one, and things have gradually got worse ever since. It's a truly horrible company to work for.

 

[87015]

No trains serving any of the intermediate stations between Redhill and Tonbridge today because it is alleged Southern forgot to book any of the paths.

Correct - but didn’t forget, they didn’t bid for them in time therefore no leg to stand on against operators that did bid on time. Usually operators/NR sit down and come up with a plan for these blocks that gives everyone something but can’t do that when GTR don’t even have a proposal at the time everyone else is nailing down (already held back as per national plan to give GTR a chance)

 

[Ianno87]

How many times did you use it this week? I attempted 5 return journeys all failures. First day was going to connect into Peterborough- Horsham service at Finsbury Park but it was sat platform 2 with no driver so change at Kings cross / St Pancras instead.

IF they ever deliver what is promised I will rarely use St Pancras and use one of the core stations. However it is still a big IF WGC ever sees direct trains into the core at a reasonable frequency.

Look at the PPM today. Just a bit of a mess. That is based on the emergency timetable I guess.

Went for them twice (0654 on Monday, 0754 on Wednesday), ran twice, on time twice.

Return workings on both days were cancelled, admittedly.

 

[Hadders]

Complete shambles at Stevenage this morning.

I wanted to travel on the 1128 to Enfield Chase. All the info I could see this morning suggested it would run. Get to the station and the incoming service is terminated at Hertford North. To be fair they are arranging taxis but i’ve abandoned my journey and will drive.

Poster at the station advising passengers not to travel unless absolutely essential and that return journeys tonight cannot be guaranteed.

Utter shambles. It’s the staff I feel sorry for.

 

[Failed Unit]

You've only got to look at the abuse staff took at Hitchin two nights ago when passengers refused to let the train leave unless its stops were reinstated. I support their protest but some of them spoke to staff using truly vile remarks, which just isn't on. Sooner or later staff will be physically assaulted. I know of a handful of frontline staff who have gone off with stress already. It's too much.

This company has utter contempt for its staff (and passengers). Morale has been rock bottom for a long time, but it is worse now. Frontline staff get no support from higher management - just lies and soundbites.
Everyone moans about the TOC they work for, but I've worked for a few now and GTR is the worst by a long, long way. The warning signs were there from day one, and things have gradually got worse ever since. It's a truly horrible company to work for.

Those are my fears to be honest.

Passengers have enough. They want to tell Charles Horton what they think of him but instead they get Fred. Poor Fred gets abuse for something he has no control over.

On Friday at WGC. 0832 arrives on platform at 0830 (after running ECS from London). At 0840 still hasn’t opened the doors, signal is green. Poor staff haven’t got a clue what is going on. Do they direct passengers to the Moorgate? (But the 0832 has the line). They haven’t got a clue and no-one is giving them information. Train leaves and we are told it is skip stopping. Poor staff put in a very difficult position.

Older members will retire if they can. Others will look for other work. The situation doesn’t improve.

 

[Bishopstone]

Utter shambles. It’s the staff I feel sorry for.

I feel sorry for the passengers who don’t have a car they can jump into as a fall back.

 

[43074]

But GTRs train planning has been in this way for years. Industry deadlines missed again and again with all the knocks on that leaves to. They havent reliably been at T-18 for donkeys, missed the current recovery plan before it had even started etc etc. Hardly says “we really tried, were ready and just got caught out” when there is always a vacancy gap and show little interest in retaining good staff.

Not to mention GTR choosing now to have forced in new planning software untried and untested which is just throwing more fuel on the fire.

Still just blame MK, its what the media say you must do...

Yes but equally MK aren't entirely blameless in any of this, apparently the quality of timetable offers to GTR has been as variable as the quality of timetable bids they are receiving, which causes more issues to sort out and exacerbates the issues with Informed Traveller being behind etc. Undoubtedly NR being so short of (good) planners after moving to MK hasn't helped either, but in any case the situation doesn't look to be improving. Unfortunately it's the punters who will suffer: only advertising a train service 24 hours in advance - as was the case for this weekend - is diabolical and frankly unacceptable regardless of the reasons behind it.

 

[Failed Unit]

What are the unions saying / doing? Their members are at risk of the backlash

 

[Taunton]

Thameslink Triumph

Oh dear! Modern Ralways for June is just out, and the title page story has the splash heading "Thameslink Triumph".

I suspect that Mr Editor Abbott is feeling not a little embarrassment this weekend, having committed the journalist's cardinal sin of writing a news story before it has happened, getting caught out, and/or believing the Thameslink PR team a little too much.

Mr G Freeman Allen will be turning in his grave.

 

[The Planner]

Yes but equally MK aren't entirely blameless in any of this, apparently the quality of timetable offers to GTR has been as variable as the quality of timetable bids they are receiving, which causes more issues to sort out and exacerbates the issues with Informed Traveller being behind etc. Undoubtedly NR being so short of (good) planners after moving to MK hasn't helped either, but in any case the situation doesn't look to be improving. Unfortunately it's the punters who will suffer: only advertising a train service 24 hours in advance - as was the case for this weekend - is diabolical and frankly unacceptable regardless of the reasons behind it.

All at the same time as we are meant to be delivering Dec 18, I cannot comment on what the overall quality of that will be and if we can get back on track for STP or we have hit a downward spiral.

 

[Fred26]

What are the unions saying / doing? Their members are at risk of the backlash

Sod all.

 

[Deepgreen]

They ran via Redhill on Good Friday and Easter Monday earlier this year.

However, that was the first time in a while they were running those trains into Charing Cross; between 2015 and 2017 they occasionally ran via Redhill but had to terminate at London Bridge low level.

SE run via Redhill quite often as a standard diversion.

 

[Deepgreen]

Correct - but didn’t forget, they didn’t bid for them in time therefore no leg to stand on against operators that did bid on time. Usually operators/NR sit down and come up with a plan for these blocks that gives everyone something but can’t do that when GTR don’t even have a proposal at the time everyone else is nailing down (already held back as per national plan to give GTR a chance)

Huh? Just when one thinks it cannot become any more farcical, it does! Staggering.

 

[Kanrakuq]

Although I'm not that surprised it happened at Hitchin. People have long days at work and it's often not much fun, and it doesn't go unnoticed that after a horrible day, there are three or four station staff hanging around the sole ticket gates in that station just having a great time and not appearing to be doing very much. Thousands of people walk past them every morning and evening. I know it gets noticed, because I've heard people commenting on it. In most lines of work you can't do that sort of thing in a public-facing role, and this is partly the reason why, because it's easy to form opinions about people that may not be strictly true, and once that has happened, it's already too late — with so many people about, there will always be some who have turned staff into a caricature and no longer have any respect for them. Not saying it was right, but as I said, just not surprised it happened there.

 

[Fred26]

Although I'm not that surprised it happened at Hitchin. People have long days at work and it's often not much fun, and it doesn't go unnoticed that after a horrible day, there are three or four station staff hanging around the sole ticket gates in that station just having a great time and not appearing to be doing very much. Thousands of people walk past them every morning and evening. I know it gets noticed, because I've heard people commenting on it. In most lines of work you can't do that sort of thing in a public-facing role, and this is partly the reason why, because it's easy to form opinions about people that may not be strictly true, and once that has happened, it's already too late — with so many people about, there will always be some who have turned staff into a caricature and no longer have any respect for them. Not saying it was right, but as I said, just not surprised it happened there.

Fine, but I take issue with the 'hanging around' bit. They are supposed to be there. They're not hanging around anywhere.

 

[Failed Unit]

Thameslink Triumph

Oh dear! Modern Ralways for June is just out, and the title page story has the splash heading "Thameslink Triumph".

I suspect that Mr Editor Abbott is feeling not a little embarrassment this weekend, having committed the journalist's cardinal sin of writing a news story before it has happened, getting caught out, and/or believing the Thameslink PR team a little too much.

Mr G Freeman Allen will be turning in his grave.

I hope one of his more famous journalists (Mr Roger Ford) is travelling this weekend. Although he would need to live in a bubble not to be hearing about the anger of the whole thing.

 

[Failed Unit]

Fine, but I take issue with the 'hanging around' bit. They are supposed to be there. They're not hanging around anywhere.

I guess like WGC they are the revenue protection team. Although at WGC they are normally booking someone who has just got off a 313 operated service.

 

[Antman]

Fine, but I take issue with the 'hanging around' bit. They are supposed to be there. They're not hanging around anywhere.

But staff standing around not appearing to be doing very much in the current chaos isn't likely to sit very well with passengers.

 

[Antman]

No trains serving any of the intermediate stations between Redhill and Tonbridge today because it is alleged Southern forgot to book any of the paths.

Sounds like another astonishing gaffe on the part of somebody? Just when you think things can't get any worse!

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Thameslink Triumph

Oh dear! Modern Ralways for June is just out, and the title page story has the splash heading "Thameslink Triumph".

I suspect that Mr Editor Abbott is feeling not a little embarrassment this weekend, having committed the journalist's cardinal sin of writing a news story before it has happened, getting caught out, and/or believing the Thameslink PR team a little too much.

Mr G Freeman Allen will be turning in his grave.

I'll have to buy that. It'll be a collector's item a few years from now!

 

[ag51ruk]

Complete shambles at Stevenage this morning.

I wanted to travel on the 1128 to Enfield Chase. All the info I could see this morning suggested it would run. Get to the station and the incoming service is terminated at Hertford North. To be fair they are arranging taxis but i’ve abandoned my journey and will drive.

Poster at the station advising passengers not to travel unless absolutely essential and that return journeys tonight cannot be guaranteed.

Utter shambles. It’s the staff I feel sorry for.

Coincidentally, I was at Hertford North waiting for the 1105 to Stevenage, which would have formed your train. It arrived early and we waited for about 10 minutes while the driver announced that his replacement hadn't arrived - eventually cancelled and sent back to the sidings at the south of the station .

The supervisor arranged with control for the following train (1135 to Watton) to be extended to Stevenage, which it was - arrived in platform 4 at Stevenage then left again at about 1200 heading for Moorgate via Hertford.

None of this was reflected in the CIS screens at Hertford or Stevenage, auto announcements, the NRE app or RTT - but the staff locally on the train and stations did a good job with manual announcements. However, as far as I can tell that train never officially ran, and I have no idea what it will show up as heading south again!

 

[Envy123]

Well, on Thursday morning, I was able to easily get to Farringdon via New Southgate and Finsbury Park. It was much smoother than going via Arnos Grove LU and the long walk to the SSL platforms in King's Cross.

Too bad that I couldn't do it on the way back, because the Cambridge service was cancelled, so I ended up going via Moorgate instead.

With the shambles that are happening with some of the GN outer stations (thanks to the new timetable), I'm starting to rethink about having my first home being in Potters Bar, Hitchin or Welwyn Garden City (WGC). Either I'll stay near the GN locals of New Southgate, Oakleigh Park or New Barnet - or go to a more reliable rail line.

 

[Fred26]

But staff standing around not appearing to be doing very much in the current chaos isn't likely to sit very well with passengers.

What do you think they should be doing? If they're on the barriers they're protecting revenue - they're checking tickets. They can't actually go anywhere as then the gates have to be open and they wouldn't be doing their job.
Frontline staff get no help and often no information from control. This has been the case for years, but it's been well hidden until now by staff being able to make educated guesses as to what will happen. That's more or less impossible with the way things are now and the public are being shown what it's like to have no information.

 

[DPQ]

No trains serving any of the intermediate stations between Redhill and Tonbridge today because it is alleged Southern forgot to book any of the paths.

I am led to believe that Network Rail refused Southern stopping paths as they had already given paths for the diverted Southeastern based on the old timetable.