Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[BRblue]

Seems to be turning into a school playground in this thread...
However high feelings are running can we not respect each others views whether we agree or not and cut out the sniping.

 

[MikeWM]

If Cambridge having direct access to all these places is so important, how about running at least one of the fast services as Thameslink (although there would need to be a squaring up of running the longer train north of Cambridge)?

Ideally, yes. This would make the idea a little more attractive to me as currently I gain nothing in terms of time over before, even if everything is working perfectly. The current plan may work for those less keen or less able to change trains, but if I’m going from Cambridge to Brighton or Gatwick then I’d still plan on a non-stopper, Victoria line, fast train from Victoria.

However, the fact that in the peaks most services start/terminate at Kings Lynn, and call at Waterbeach, restricts everything to 4 carriages (unless we start putting splittable trains through the core). Even if the platform lengthening work ever gets done (!) it will still only be 8 cars. Plus there is the long single line section, which is very time-sensitive. So I don’t really see how this could work

 

[Hadders]

I hear 365s have already re-appeared at Cambridge today. That’s another prediction come true. How long before we see some units return from store? (by my calculations there are 11 not being leased by ScotRail).

The predictions we made are certainly coming true. Shambeslink is making Operation Princess look like a rip roaring success!

They've not even tried to run anything through the core from the GN side today, from what I can see. Everything using Kings Cross.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I wonder.. is the meltdown due more to trying to do too much at once?

surely if the original Thameslink routes had been left as they were then those routes would have had a full compliment of fully route learnt staff.
then link up the new paths from GN lines and new southern paths... in theory there would be a full compliment of GN staff fully learnt on the northern section and southern staff on the southern paths....
that way, with a little bit of jiggery-pokery a near full service could be run.

As I see it, by chopping and changing the links between north and south at the same time as adding loads of new paths has over burdened the system.... as now we have whole swathes of the network that can't be fully staffed.... or in some cases if the posts on this thread are to be believed... some that can't be staffed at all!

 

[kw12]

The GN network simply isn’t capable of operating the planned service reliably. Look at the way things have progressively degenerated in the last three weeks from bad to total meltdown.

What are the reasons for the service progressively degenerating? Why has the service this week been worse than that after the timetable was introduced?

 

[MikeWM]

What are the reasons for the service progressively degenerating? Why has the service this week been worse than that after the timetable was introduced?

They’ve taken the one bit that was still working ok as they were largely unchanged - the Cambridge fasts - and tried to make them cover for the almost complete absence of the semi-fasts. As such, these have now also fell to pieces.

 

[Floydlover25]

They've not even tried to run anything through the core from the GN side today, from what I can see. Everything using Kings Cross.

That's part of the revised weekend timetable they published on Railplan2020. The PBO service appears to have fared well today. The Cambridge stoppers less so........

 

[MML]

I have to agree that if GN services are to continue to run through the core at least 50% of journeys should still serve KX.
Most stations on MML had at least 4 trains an hour before the collapse of the timetable.
GN has often only offered 2 tph presumably due to pathing limitations of the Welwyn viaduct. If the TL services had been supplementary, then there would have been less complaints.
I'm still trying to work out the benefits of the Core for peak flows to London as it has been mentioned that it reduces the requirement for far more terminating platforms.
What I can't really understand is a 12 car unit from Bedford to London is full with commuters, yet virtually empty for the journey to Brighton or even more distant Littlehampton. And is only used once for a peak flow. Yet if it had terminated in London and returned north again, there would be a chance of a second peak flow south again.
By the time more distant Littlehampton is reached rush hour is over. And it's running lightly loaded for the rest of the day.

 

[MikeWM]

They've not even tried to run anything through the core from the GN side today, from what I can see. Everything using Kings Cross.

GNs website has the most ridiculous excuse ever (as it also did last weekend) for why there may be alterations or buses - “there may be Network Rail improvement work”. Err, shouldn’t they know if there is or isn’t?!?!

 

[Steve Harris]

GNs website has the most ridiculous excuse ever (as it also did last weekend) for why there may be alterations or buses - “there may be Network Rail improvement work”. Err, shouldn’t they know if there is or isn’t?!?!

Doubtful tbh.

I'm guessing GTR currently doesn't know it's arse from its elbow !!

 

[Failed Unit]

They’ve taken the one bit that was still working ok as they were largely unchanged - the Cambridge fasts - and tried to make them cover for the almost complete absence of the semi-fasts. As such, these have now also fell to pieces.

That is my impression as well. Things are getting worse. (Not that you can tell from the ppm)

Before the timetable 6tph into Kings Cross. Now they have planned 5 but don’t seem to be able to manage that..

 

[bramling]

Ideally, yes. This would make the idea a little more attractive to me as currently I gain nothing in terms of time over before, even if everything is working perfectly. The current plan may work for those less keen or less able to change trains, but if I’m going from Cambridge to Brighton or Gatwick then I’d still plan on a non-stopper, Victoria line, fast train from Victoria.

However, the fact that in the peaks most services start/terminate at Kings Lynn, and call at Waterbeach, restricts everything to 4 carriages (unless we start putting splittable trains through the core). Even if the platform lengthening work ever gets done (!) it will still only be 8 cars. Plus there is the long single line section, which is very time-sensitive. So I don’t really see how this could work

The current Ely-KX hourly fast service could be run with 700s and to Thameslink, subject to being able to accommodate a 12-car at Ely (is this possible?) and power supply limitations (not sure where we are with that), and would require to omit Waterbeach. To my mind that would be the way to do it. Naturally this means Kings Lynn can’t have 2tph GN - although that doesn’t mean they can’t have a second train provided by someone else.

 

[bramling]

Seems to be turning into a school playground in this thread...
However high feelings are running can we not respect each others views whether we agree or not and cut out the sniping.

Compared to some other places this thread is pretty civilised. However it does seem that those who seem keen on Thameslink come from either Cambridge (at least 4tph alternative non-Thameslink services to London) or St Albans (at least 8tph to London). Those keen on the Thameslink dream may gain enlightenment from attempting to travel from somewhere like Arlesey at the moment!

 

[MikeWM]

Currently at Cambridge. A 8-car 365 just pulled into platform 7 to form the 2254 semi-fast (!). The 2257 stopper is delayed ‘due to ongoing timetable issues’ - guess they’ve run out of better excuses!

 

[MikeWM]

The current Ely-KX hourly fast service could be run with 700s and to Thameslink, subject to being able to accommodate a 12-car at Ely (is this possible?) and power supply limitations (not sure where we are with that), and would require to omit Waterbeach. To my mind that would be the way to do it. Naturally this means Kings Lynn can’t have 2tph GN - although that doesn’t mean they can’t have a second train provided by someone else.

12 cars at Ely fits physically, but may cause issues with the EMT reversers. Don’t know the current state of the power issues, in fact no-one seems to know. But these services only operate off-peak anyway, so you’d have to do something else for the peak. And - while it keeps on getting put back and back - Fen Line people will get very upset if you take away the ‘planned’ 2tph to Kings Cross, for some reason they seem much more concerned about that than platform extensions, even though the latter would be much more useful...

 

[jon0844]

Once Thameslink and Crossrail are sorted out, one of the country’s most important economic engines will have direct trains to Stansted and Gatwick and one change (Farringdon) to Heathrow.

Actually, a change at St Pancras allows for you to get to Luton Airport quite easily too (not sure how it works ticketing wise going via London but I am sure people in the tech/pharmaceutical sectors won't be too concerned with cost). That's every significant airport reachable with one or two trains. Southend too if you go to Moorgate and make the short interchange with Liverpool Street!

They literally ran trial services for months before throwing the switch. I used them loads.

Apparently most of this didn't result in any significant route learning as they were mostly changing drivers as they are still having to do now?

 

[Steve Harris]

Actually, a change at St Pancras allows for you to get to Luton Airport quite easily too (not sure how it works ticketing wise going via London but I am sure people in the tech/pharmaceutical sectors won't be too concerned with cost). That's every significant airport reachable with one or two trains. Southend too if you go to Moorgate and make the short interchange with Liverpool Street

Why would she go to Moorgate to go to Liverpool Street to get to Southend? Bearing in mind she's coming from Cambridge which has a direct GA service to Liverpool Street !

And if your going to make it a couple of changes of trains you could count in Birmingham and Manchester.

So i can't really see how people can moan that Cambridge doesn't have connectivity. That and if you own your own aircraft you can fly into the very local airport which is 3 miles from the City Centre. What could be more convenient.

 

[F Great Eastern]

I've been on a couple of TL services this weekend that were advertised as being 7-8 minutes late when I arrived at Blackfriars but subsequently arrived on time and were early into St Pancras.

Is there still a lot of padding or is this just showing up the 700s good acceleration that allows it to recover time? Have to be careful with this because if you assume a train is late and you'll grab a coffee you might miss it!

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I've been on a couple of TL services this weekend that were advertised as being 7-8 minutes late when I arrived at Blackfriars but subsequently arrived on time and were early into St Pancras.

Is there still a lot of padding or is this just showing up the 700s good acceleration that allows it to recover time? Have to be careful with this because if you assume a train is late and you'll grab a coffee you might miss it!

showing as 7-8 late but arrive on time? aren't the displays linked to real-time GPRS?

 

[gingerheid]

Ok... the sad tale of GN at Cambridge today genuinely confuses me.

They used to run 2x fast, 1x semi fast and 1x slow.

Today they weren't even going to try and run the semi fast, and there were no attempts at trying to run to the core, or to Cambridge North. What could go wrong?

How did this somehow come out the wash as them being almost completely unable to run the slows (Foxton having two five hour gaps southbound, including one where a train that left Cambridge on time skipped)??? That just defies explanation

 

[Antman]

It seems nothing is running through the core except Bedford - Brighton and Bedford - Blackfriars so I assume engineering works are happening via Elephant and Castle.

Yes there is nothing running through E&C, I passed through Brixton earlier this evening and there were some people on the platform, presumably no signage to say trains aren't stopping there?

 

[NorthKent1989]

It’s all well and good having direct trains to Luton, and on the North Kent Line if you live west of Woolwich and Crossrail won’t make much of a difference then by all means have the Thameslink but from Plumstead not down to Medway where it isn’t wanted, east of Woolwich/Abbey Wood Thameslink will be redundant and it already is.

If we need Luton for any reason then all we’d have to do is get a train to Abbey Wood change for Crossrail to Farringdon then change for Thameslink to Luton, if you want to spend a few extra quid, then HS1 to St. Pancras then onto Luton.

However all Thameslink has done to the Woolwich and Greenwich lines is slow down services, ruin a perfectly good 6tph every ten minutes on some stations and in some cases made it harder to catch connections (I know this is laughed at by some posters on this forum, but it is point that is vital) what isn’t funny is that people’s lives are being turned upside down, employers aren’t that patient or understanding they’re running businesses.

I think most people have been very patient with GTR in some cases for many years now.

 

[KeithP]

If we need Luton for any reason then all we’d have to do is get a train to Abbey Wood change for Crossrail to Farringdon then change for Thameslink to Luton, if you want to spend a few extra quid, then HS1 to Paddington then onto Luton.

I knew these timetable changes were 'comprehensive', but HS1 to Paddington for Luton?

 

[NorthKent1989]

I knew these timetable changes were 'comprehensive', but HS1 to Paddington for Luton?

Typo fixed now

 

[Dunnyrail]

I managed a trip from St.Neots to Huntingdon ok yesterday, all trains on Real Time Trains were running at the level of service prior to 20 May and into Kings Cross. My first trip on the trains in 2 or more weeks. This linked article may be of interest to some of you as I feel that it is an objective view of pretty well all the issues.

https://www.railfuture.org.uk/article1785-Timetable-trauma

 

[Passenger John]

Ok... the sad tale of GN at Cambridge today genuinely confuses me.

They used to run 2x fast, 1x semi fast and 1x slow.

Today they weren't even going to try and run the semi fast, and there were no attempts at trying to run to the core, or to Cambridge North. What could go wrong?

How did this somehow come out the wash as them being almost completely unable to run the slows (Foxton having two five hour gaps southbound, including one where a train that left Cambridge on time skipped)??? That just defies explanation

Living in a village near to Shepreth, used the car yesterday, don't trust the trains anymore, but have noticed how much more traffic passing through my village yesterday and in the surrounding area. Trouble is like myself as a leisure traveller how may will go back to the rails after all this is sorted out. By the way when I got to the P&R south of Cambridge there were only a few spaces left, again unusual on a Saturday morning.

 

[Daz28]

SouthEastern are introducing some tweaks to their timetable tomorrow. An early morning Dartford service is now starting at Gillingham, a Maidstone West service now starting from Tonbridge, an extra stop at Lewisham for one of the evening Hayes services, and 9 additional stops at Eynsford and Shoreham whilst GTR sort themselves out.

 

[Hadders]

Living in a village near to Shepreth, used the car yesterday, don't trust the trains anymore, but have noticed how much more traffic passing through my village yesterday and in the surrounding area. Trouble is like myself as a leisure traveller how may will go back to the rails after all this is sorted out. By the way when I got to the P&R south of Cambridge there were only a few spaces left, again unusual on a Saturday morning.

More evidence of this shambles destroying the leisure rail market. Once things are sorted there's going to need to be a comprehensive campaign to get the passenger numbers restored.

 

[GoatSarah]

Ok... the sad tale of GN at Cambridge today genuinely confuses me.

They used to run 2x fast, 1x semi fast and 1x slow.

Today they weren't even going to try and run the semi fast, and there were no attempts at trying to run to the core, or to Cambridge North. What could go wrong?

How did this somehow come out the wash as them being almost completely unable to run the slows (Foxton having two five hour gaps southbound, including one where a train that left Cambridge on time skipped)??? That just defies explanation

This is confusing me too. Yesterday should have been a reversion to the existing service pattern, but they can’t even make *that* work.

 

[F Great Eastern]

showing as 7-8 late but arrive on time? aren't the displays linked to real-time GPRS?

I assume it recovered time?

It wasn't saying that late but the countdown meant it was going to be 7 to 8 late but by the time it got to platform it was on time and the due time reflected that.