Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

[The Planner]

I guessed that bit, just wondering if the ITEM 28 was anything in particular...

Item 28 will be what the work is in the Weekly Operating Notice (WON) I suspect.

 

[Steve Harris]

Yeah I understand that and especially when your daily services have been decimated and all they can think about is their once a year trip to the airport. Sad truth is I don't think they'll be getting their through services for quite some time. It's more than teething problems, I can't even see a full set of dentures sorting this out...

Do you know any good dentists? lol.

If you do, send the details to GTR HQ

 

[Hadders]

I’ve been in London today. Despite the mass cancellations my train into London at 8am this morning and the one home are very quiet. Normally they would be very busy.

It could just be that i’ve got lucky but I suspect it’s more likely that leisure travellers have simply decided not to travel.

This is most concerning as it will impact adversely on the wider economy if it’s not sorted fast.

 

[Sleepy]

Greater Anglia must be loving this with all the extra Cambridge area pax buying GA only tickets ?

 

[Failed Unit]

I’ve been in London today. Despite the mass cancellations my train into London at 8am this morning and the one home are very quiet. Normally they would be very busy.

It could just be that i’ve got lucky but I suspect it’s more likely that leisure travellers have simply decided not to travel.

This is most concerning as it will impact adversely on the wider economy if it’s not sorted fast.

I suspect you are right. I only use the service now if I have no choice. Even if they get you to your destination you are taking a big gamble they will get you back.

 

[Hadders]

I suspect you are right. I only use the service now if I have no choice. Even if they get you to your destination you are taking a big gamble they will get you back.

Got off a train at Stevenage along with just 2 other passengers!!!!

Never, ever have I seen this. The leisure market, at least today, has been destroyed.

 

[otomous]

Changing to the tube is more convenient than not knowing whether there will be a train at your station in the morning to take you to work or worrying how long you'll be stuck in London waiting fro your train home. If you've always lived in SE London, you've no idea what it's like to get to Blackfriars or Farringdon or City Thameslink and see the mass cancellations of trains to your destination on the board for the next hour or two. There's no alternative route, no tube to Harpenden and the buses stop running after 18.30. At least in SE London you've access to the most intensive local bus network in Europe and it's entirely possible to travel from Central London to anywhere in the rest of London by bus.

Give us country bumpkins a break.

No. But I do know what it’s like to get off a tube at Victoria to see everything cancelled and troop along to Charing Cross to just miss the half hourly train and reflect that I’ve travelled from Cambridge to Kings Cross in the time that all this taken. Also there are no direct buses from central London to where I live and any journey will probably take longer than your journey home, once the two buses have crawled through the traffic in the centre of town, across the river, then down the Old Kent Road, the South Circular, whatever. As for tubes? We don’t have them. They are for the rest of London mostly north of the river. Still, I can at least walk home in about two and a half hours.

I’m not defending the mess that exists now. I’ve already said I think the new timetable should have been put on hold. But that doesn’t negate the purpose of the project. As for comparing trasnport in a big capital city with out in the sticks, it’s hardly the same thing is it? It was the principle of objectors to the Bakerloo Line extension I was highlighting. Again, I ask, are we NEVER to change anything?

 

[Failed Unit]

Got off a train at Stevenage along with just 2 other passengers!!!!

Never, ever have I seen this. The leisure market, at least today, has been destroyed.

Meanwhile GTR are laughing all the way to the bank with their management contract still rewarding them for this failure.

 

[GoatSarah]

But do you do it every day? There are long-standing passengers on both GN and Bed-Pan lines who are now having to reconsider their employment options because their once reasonably reliable service has been reduced to an unreliable shambles. How hard was it for you to get the train to Kings Cross, stroll to St Pancras and then get a Brigton train from there? I'd suggest a lot easier than it is for some people who are now looking for new jobs.

We get it, you want a train that runs direct from your origin to your destination and everyone else should just put up with going round the houses to accommodate you.

Well no. Consider this: Cambridge is at the heart of the largest IT cluster outside North America and the largest biotech cluster in the world.

I used to work there in microelectronics. One thing we kept hearing from international visitors was what a pain it was to get to from the airport.

Once Thameslink and Crossrail are sorted out, one of the country’s most important economic engines will have direct trains to Stansted and Gatwick and one change (Farringdon) to Heathrow.

It may not matter to you, but it matters to lots of others.

I don’t see why people have to be such arses about this. I’ve been using GN a lot this last week and it’s barely recognisable as a train service, and sure, I’m pissed off.

But what I’m not doing is suggesting that the people of Royston, Letchworth etc for whom the Cambridge fasts are being stopped should just go screw themselves until this is sorted out.

The idea of running through the core from GN is a valuable one which will drive economic growth and provide a valuable service to a lot of people. Just because you don’t need it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist.

 

[Hearadh]

Does anybody know with the expanded Thameslink route knowledge required whether drivers still need to sign the diversionary Tulse Hill - Streatham - Streatham Common - East Croydon route?

 

[JonathanH]

Does anybody know with the expanded Thameslink route knowledge required whether drivers still need to sign the diversionary Tulse Hill - Streatham - Streatham Common - East Croydon route?

Overnight trains continue to be scheduled that way.

 

[the Rat]

Again, I ask, are we NEVER to change anything?

Of course. But the problem appears to be that TL tried to change almost everything and, as such, the whole project was doomed from the off.

If, say, you build a car then 1/ you first construct it as best you can, hoping it will all work fine but, realistically, expecting certain aspects to need adjusting, refining, tweaking, replacing, call it what you will. Crucially, 2/ you then spend a period of time testing and making adjustments as mentioned. Finally, when it's as good as it can be, 3/ you're ready to go live and so you do.

As far as the timetable is concerned, there was no way you could achieve step 2, which is rather important. So any risk assessments should have picked this up as a potential problem for a full roll-out and put forward a slow, incremental change, basically augmenting what was already there. Admittedly the final outcome might not have delivered all the benefits promised, but it would at least have been a robust model.

So now you have possibly the worst meltdown in recent railway history, staff morale at rock bottom, passenger confidence and satisfaction even lower and the inability to even return to the old timetables. For me that risk would have been just too great, but there were obviously some big egos at play.

 

[GoatSarah]

Of course. But the problem appears to be that TL tried to change almost everything and, as such, the whole project was doomed from the off.

If, say, you build a car then 1/ you first construct it as best you can, hoping it will all work fine but, realistically, expecting certain aspects to need adjusting, refining, tweaking, replacing, call it what you will. Crucially, 2/ you then spend a period of time testing and making adjustments as mentioned. Finally, when it's as good as it can be, 3/ you're ready to go live and so you do.

As far as the timetable is concerned, there was no way you could achieve step 2, which is rather important. So any risk assessments should have picked this up as a potential problem for a full roll-out and put forward a slow, incremental change, basically augmenting what was already there. Admittedly the final outcome might not have delivered all the benefits promised, but it would at least have been a robust model.

They literally ran trial services for months before throwing the switch. I used them loads.

 

[Steve Harris]

We get it, you want a train that runs direct from your origin to your destination and everyone else should just put up with going round the houses to accommodate you.

Well no. Consider this: Cambridge is at the heart of the largest IT cluster outside North America and the largest biotech cluster in the world.

I used to work there in microelectronics. One thing we kept hearing from international visitors was what a pain it was to get to from the airport.

And there was me thinking that it was less than 3 miles from Cambridge City Centre to the Airport !

As you would obvisouly know (having worked in Cambridge) that it has its own airport which has hosted international flights.

Perhaps you should get the destinations expanded as im sure a lot of those IT and biotech compaines
would like the added connectivity.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Once Thameslink and Crossrail are sorted out,

Thameslink should have been sorted by May 20th that’s what is annoying people because three weeks on and we’re still not seeing the full benefits that were promised to us years ago, if a project still has issues then you delay the inauguration of the service until it’s all sorted out completely you don’t launch it with the full knowledge that you don’t have enough trained drivers or that there are still kinks in the timetable.

Let’s hope Crossrail doesn’t turn into the shambles Thameslink is fast becoming

 

[GoatSarah]

And there was me thinking that it was less than 3 miles from Cambridge City Centre to the Airport !

As you would obvisouly know (having worked in Cambridge) that it has its own airport which has hosted international flights.

Thanks for your valuable and completely realistic contribution.

 

[MikeWM]

Greater Anglia must be loving this with all the extra Cambridge area pax buying GA only tickets ?

Certainly what I’ve done today. Saved a few quid too, as GA have cut the price of their weekend-only GA-only tickets by 20% or so...

 

[GoatSarah]

Thameslink should have been sorted by May 20th that’s what is annoying people because three weeks on and we’re still not seeing the full benefits that were promised to us years ago, if a project still has issues then you delay the inauguration of the service until it’s all sorted out completely you don’t launch it with the full knowledge that you don’t have enough trained drivers or that there are still kinks in the timetable.

Let’s hope Crossrail doesn’t turn into the shambles Thameslink is fast becoming

I don’t dispute any of that. My problem is with the people saying it’s useless in principle because it doesn’t facilitate their particular journey.

 

[GoatSarah]

Certainly what I’ve done today. Saved a few quid too, as GA have cut the price of their weekend-only GA-only tickets by 20% or so...

I’m on the south coast at the moment. Returning home to Cambridge tomorrow. Not even going to bother trying Kings Cross. Will head straight to Liverpool Street.

 

[Steve Harris]

Thanks for your valuable and completely realistic contribution.

Your Welcome

And i wouldn't say its realistic, more Real!

As its still there after 100 years and certainly would be quicker than traveling to Heathrow or Gatwick. And more convenient too.

 

[Hadders]

I don't have a problem with some services running through the Core but it's wrong for all services from a station to run through the Core. You only have to look at places like Arlesey and Sandy to see the issues this can cause.

I'd have half of the services through the core and half to Kings Cross. That would provide a sensible balance.

 

[the Rat]

They literally ran trial services for months before throwing the switch. I used them loads.

Indeed, but in isolation of all the other changes that were to come. So my analogy still stands. All they did was test the brakes on the car and then pass the whole car as fit for purpose.

 

[Steve Harris]

I’m on the south coast at the moment. Returning home to Cambridge tomorrow. Not even going to bother trying Kings Cross. Will head straight to Liverpool Street.

Gain and no pain ?

 

[Failed Unit]

Gain and no pain ?

When will we get the gain? Christmas? 50% services withdrawn. The ones that are not it is a gamble if they will run or not.

 

[bramling]

We get it, you want a train that runs direct from your origin to your destination and everyone else should just put up with going round the houses to accommodate you.

Well no. Consider this: Cambridge is at the heart of the largest IT cluster outside North America and the largest biotech cluster in the world.

I used to work there in microelectronics. One thing we kept hearing from international visitors was what a pain it was to get to from the airport.

Once Thameslink and Crossrail are sorted out, one of the country’s most important economic engines will have direct trains to Stansted and Gatwick and one change (Farringdon) to Heathrow.

It may not matter to you, but it matters to lots of others.

I don’t see why people have to be such arses about this. I’ve been using GN a lot this last week and it’s barely recognisable as a train service, and sure, I’m pissed off.

But what I’m not doing is suggesting that the people of Royston, Letchworth etc for whom the Cambridge fasts are being stopped should just go screw themselves until this is sorted out.

The idea of running through the core from GN is a valuable one which will drive economic growth and provide a valuable service to a lot of people. Just because you don’t need it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist.

Why can’t people grasp two basic points?

1) No one is saying have no core services - just don’t change the entire base service from destinations to run in this unreliable way.

and

2) The GN network simply isn’t capable of operating the planned service reliably. Look at the way things have progressively degenerated in the last three weeks from bad to total meltdown. Likewise it’s hard to have any confidence at all in the people who have so far delivered this meltdown - if they couldn’t plan something as predictable as crewing arrangements with decades of notice, why on earth should we believe the timetable will work in the real world?

As someone else very aptly posted, GN was chosen for Thameslink because it happened to be the easiest to build a tunnel to. It’s services aren’t particularly suitable as the inners already go to Moorgate, so you’re left with outer-suburban services which go quite a distance, comparatively infrequently, and on a railway which can barely handle the number of services on it before, without adding the added difficulty of importing delays from elsewhere.

I’m sick of hearing about how nice it might be to go direct to Gatwick or whatever. Fact is that there are alternative ways to get to Gatwick without a through service, involving one or two changes and perhaps a journey on the Underground, something people have been doing successfully for something like a century and a half. Many people don’t use any further rail from Kings Cross, either being within walking distance or using modes like cycling. Conversely there’s no rail alternative if your train from Arlesey doesn’t run. Now we have neither in any case, so people still can’t get to Gatwick, let alone reliably.

 

[bramling]

I don't have a problem with some services running through the Core but it's wrong for all services from a station to run through the Core. You only have to look at places like Arlesey and Sandy to see the issues this can cause.

I'd have half of the services through the core and half to Kings Cross. That would provide a sensible balance.

I hear 365s have already re-appeared at Cambridge today. That’s another prediction come true. How long before we see some units return from store? (by my calculations there are 11 not being leased by ScotRail).

 

[MikeWM]

I hear 365s have already re-appeared at Cambridge today. That’s another prediction come true. How long before we see some units return from store? (by my calculations there are 11 not being leased by ScotRail).

Yes, I personally saw 365s at both Ely and Cambridge today. On Ely to Kings Cross services.

And there were 9 sets (I think) in the sidings by Ely North junction when I went past last Saturday.

 

[wipeout]

Bad again this weekend. WGC down to 1 tph (to Moorgate) at the moment. Guess we should think ourselves luck we get that.

And this is meant to 4 tph, utterly unbelievable. Given that this is using 313's to Moorgate, what's the excuse for these? Surely it can't lack of route or traction knowledge?

 

[bramling]

We get it, you want a train that runs direct from your origin to your destination and everyone else should just put up with going round the houses to accommodate you.

Well no. Consider this: Cambridge is at the heart of the largest IT cluster outside North America and the largest biotech cluster in the world.

I used to work there in microelectronics. One thing we kept hearing from international visitors was what a pain it was to get to from the airport.

Once Thameslink and Crossrail are sorted out, one of the country’s most important economic engines will have direct trains to Stansted and Gatwick and one change (Farringdon) to Heathrow.

It may not matter to you, but it matters to lots of others.

I don’t see why people have to be such arses about this. I’ve been using GN a lot this last week and it’s barely recognisable as a train service, and sure, I’m pissed off.

But what I’m not doing is suggesting that the people of Royston, Letchworth etc for whom the Cambridge fasts are being stopped should just go screw themselves until this is sorted out.

The idea of running through the core from GN is a valuable one which will drive economic growth and provide a valuable service to a lot of people. Just because you don’t need it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist.

If Cambridge having direct access to all these places is so important, how about running at least one of the fast services as Thameslink (although there would need to be a squaring up of running the longer train north of Cambridge)? One unsatisfactory aspect of the railsham timetable is that Cambridge to core passengers clutter up the semi-fast services, which is bad for people using the intermediate stations and bad for Cambridge passengers as they get a much longer journey.

 

[The Box Photter]

We get it, you want a train that runs direct from your origin to your destination and everyone else should just put up with going round the houses to accommodate you.

Well no. Consider this: Cambridge is at the heart of the largest IT cluster outside North America and the largest biotech cluster in the world.

I used to work there in microelectronics. One thing we kept hearing from international visitors was what a pain it was to get to from the airport.

Once Thameslink and Crossrail are sorted out, one of the country’s most important economic engines will have direct trains to Stansted and Gatwick and one change (Farringdon) to Heathrow.

It may not matter to you, but it matters to lots of others.

I don’t see why people have to be such arses about this. I’ve been using GN a lot this last week and it’s barely recognisable as a train service, and sure, I’m pissed off.

But what I’m not doing is suggesting that the people of Royston, Letchworth etc for whom the Cambridge fasts are being stopped should just go screw themselves until this is sorted out.

The idea of running through the core from GN is a valuable one which will drive economic growth and provide a valuable service to a lot of people. Just because you don’t need it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist.

No. I want the service I rely upon to get me to work (which I've used for the last 14-odd years) to be maintained. No more, no less. As do thousands of other workers. We don't work in IT or micro-electronics and I don't really give a chuff about their bleating about it being so hard for them to get to and from the airport. If IT is so good, why don't you videoconference or mind-meld, or whatever. There are real people who don't have virtual jobs who need to get in and out of London. Nurses, firefighters, tube drivers etc, who've been priced out of living in the metropolis and forced to live further and futher away from London just to be able to afford a home for their families.

Cramming the Cambridge and Peterborough trains through the core is a mistake and whilst I agree it's a centre of excellence for IT & biotech, it isn't necessary for its continued growth to have trains running to Brighton or Gatwick. All the business flights come into Heathrow anyway (and more will be generated by the 3rd runway). Last time I looked, Heathrow wasn't on Thameslink. I don't even think the "international visitors" will be that keen to get on Crossrail to Farringdon and interchange onto Thameslink there either. Their compaies will have arranged for cars to pick them up and drive them to Cambridge. There's no prestige in public transport.

You're quite welcome to have GN back and it can run as a self-contained franchise or be merged with LNER. That way the service pattern can revert to the most convenient for GN passengers and Bed-Pan passengers won't have to suffer a reduced service because of GN trains "squatting" on paths through the core.

It would be lovely if Thameslink could run a service to Bognor for me as I have a Maiden Aunt who lives there and I don't really like having to drive, but it's not vital. That's the status of GN trains though the core.