Thameslink Wimbledon loop "saved"

[philjo]

I often have tight connections (either with other trains or with buses) so use whichever carriage is nearest the exit from the platform. e.g I know which door to use on 3/4/6/8 coach FCC services calling at platform 2 at Welwyn Garden City to be first off over the footbridge to get to platform 4 or to be off at Potters Bar to get the bus which leaves 1 minute after the train arrives.

I know at lot of others who do likewise, and will sit/stand by the door nearest the exit at their destination station regardless if the next carriage is completely empty.

some of the peak hour FCC trains leaving KX are full & standing in the rear 2 coaches but the front 1 or 2 coaches often have less than a dozen people in them. Similarly in the mornings the front unit is always fuller as they want to be off at KX nearest the exit.

 

[A-driver]

I often have tight connections (either with other trains or with buses) so use whichever carriage is nearest the exit from the platform. e.g I know which door to use on 3/4/6/8 coach FCC services calling at platform 2 at Welwyn Garden City to be first off over the footbridge to get to platform 4 or to be off at Potters Bar to get the bus which leaves 1 minute after the train arrives.

I know at lot of others who do likewise, and will sit/stand by the door nearest the exit at their destination station regardless if the next carriage is completely empty.

some of the peak hour FCC trains leaving KX are full & standing in the rear 2 coaches but the front 1 or 2 coaches often have less than a dozen people in them. Similarly in the mornings the front unit is always fuller as they want to be off at KX nearest the exit.

Try watching Hatfield down platform in the peak-a small trickle of people leave the front 15 doors. The back door is just a stream of people getting out for a good minute-90 secs. It's like a clown car and considering we get 30secs there it just causes delays. Then people moan when we close the doors before they get off whilst they are wedged in fighting to get to the doors!

 

[Class377/5]

Dwell times will be a killer because pax don't get it.

I was at edgware road yesteday for the tube and just as the lift doors closed someone jumped in. Setting them open. Repeated 5 times even when the other lift was up. Pax just do what they do and don't pay attention.

What it will be a case of is educating them now rather than later. There will always be another train. Somethin lo pax need to realise too

Yet current dwell times are around 30-35 seconds in peak. So the expected 45 seconds is plenty. Commuters learn, if you want o see an example of his go and look at City Thameslink prior to an Ashford or Rochester turning up.

 

[Bald Rick]

The core station CIS will be changed, the onboard CIS will be revolutionary (for this country at least), the method of managing punters on the platforms will be changed, the dispatch procedure will be changed and the doors will be almost 2m wide with huge standbacks. If all that doesn't deliver 60sec dwell times (90sec at London Bridge), then the optional razor blades on the door edges will be deployed.

 

[Nym]

It's Network Rails new CIS gear not LCR. The stuffs been put in all Core stations and London Bridge is to get it.

Please don't tell me it's going to be coming to more stations after LDB, it shouldn't even be going there IMO...

 

[A-driver]

It's not so much everyday running that I see being a problem as I know they are working hard to keep the core moving-it's more the old infrastructure outside the core that could cause chaos.

Look at this week. Start of the week was chaos on the Bedford branch which had huge effects in the core and south London services. Bedford line is open again today and a major track circuit Failiure at digswell causing havoc on the Cambridge, peterbourgh and welwyn services which in a few years time will also have a huge effect on the core.

But let's wait and see.

 

[D365]

Is Thameslink core actually designed for 32tph? Why not that frequency from 2018 rather than 24tph, the extra trains would be very useful. My gut feeling is that 32tph won't be realistically achievable, 24tph is bad enough as it is! I won't parrot others on the problems, but Wimbledon Loop at Blackfriars will definetly be the pinch point if running through.

 

[Class377/5]

Is Thameslink core actually designed for 32tph? Why not that frequency from 2018 rather than 24tph, the extra trains would be very useful. My gut feeling is that 32tph won't be realistically achievable, 24tph is bad enough as it is! I won't parrot others on the problems, but Wimbledon Loop at Blackfriars will definetly be the pinch point if running through.

The Core has a limited ability to cope with 32tph to help restore a timetable. It's a safety net to allow recovery if and when something goes wrong (person ill on a train is an event no-one can ever prevent fully). It's not for a whole peak.

Please don't tell me it's going to be coming to more stations after LDB, it shouldn't even be going there IMO...

Its the new standard. Not that I agree.

The core station CIS will be changed, the onboard CIS will be revolutionary (for this country at least), the method of managing punters on the platforms will be changed, the dispatch procedure will be changed and the doors will be almost 2m wide with huge standbacks. If all that doesn't deliver 60sec dwell times (90sec at London Bridge), then the optional razor blades on the door edges will be deployed.

So much is going to change and the Core will be industry leading in this respect.

 

[Tom C]

Personally, having lived and worked on the Southern end of Thameslink for many years I think that this decision is going to ensure that the Sutton loop service will continue to be the afterthought.

There was a core block back on 2005 where Brighton and Sutton trains were starting at Blackfriars/Kings Cross Midland and it was the most reliable service I think I have ever seen on the line because the contant problems on the Midland region did not spread into the Southern and therefore the service was not the first to suffer. Luckily for the loop, the Sevenoaks service are now the first to go although its still common to see the loop scrapped to keep trains running onto the Midland region.

There is a case to have a small number of through trains in the peak hours purely because a large number of passengers alight at Farringdon, although Elephant & Castle, Blackfriars and City Thameslink also have significant numbers but the majority of journeys during the off peak are local so the arguement that the off peak service would be reduced to a ghost service doesn't hold much weight.

 

[Nym]

Its the new standard. Not that I agree.

They have a much shallower viewing angle and significantly lower contrast, I've got quite reasonable eyesight but can't find what I want on these boards with a quick glance, the displaying scheme is also a bit wrong IMO, the switching horrisontal list of calling points just doesn't read well, if it is to be this way round it should be scrolling, but with the significant ghosting observed on these displays that wouldn't work either.

I honestly don't see what's wrong with the good old LED displays, as employed at Kings Cross just over the road, although these could have been better implemented at KGX, they are a lot easyer to read and have a viewing angle in excess of 75 degrees...

(apologies for the spelling, 12hr shifts for 5 days take the ability to spell out of you...)

 

[Skimble19]

The core station CIS will be changed, the onboard CIS will be revolutionary (for this country at least), the method of managing punters on the platforms will be changed, the dispatch procedure will be changed and the doors will be almost 2m wide with huge standbacks. If all that doesn't deliver 60sec dwell times (90sec at London Bridge), then the optional razor blades on the door edges will be deployed.

Yet it still won't work. St Pancras northbound in the evening will be rammed with the passengers that are there now, as well as all of those who use KGX, all scrambling around by the stairs trying to work out where each train is going.. Meanwhile, those actually paying attention to all the lovely new systems will be at the ends of the platforms, enjoying the space. Sorry, but I just can't believe it will work until I see it..

 

[jon0844]

Getting on to the platform to get to your private retreat at the end of the platform (where you'll probably find me) might be a bit tricky because of the crowds. I wonder if the lift may be quicker, if it's working!

It's bad enough with the way people have to cross each other on the 'landing area' and crash into you when they're running for a train.

As for the new screens,
I can't believe that anyone
----------------------------
thinks that these are a good
replacement to the LED
----------------------------
screens that are tried and
tested and easier to read

 

[Bald Rick]

Yet it still won't work. St Pancras northbound in the evening will be rammed with the passengers that are there now, as well as all of those who use KGX,:

The models show that a decent %age of those who use KGX now are expected to carry on to destinations on the core or crossrail via Farringdon, so the additional use of St P LL in the evening peak isn't going to be that great.

 

[philjo]

The models show that a decent %age of those who use KGX now are expected to carry on to destinations on the core or crossrail via Farringdon, so the additional use of St P LL in the evening peak isn't going to be that great.

They would need to change the ticketing so that the equivalent of booking through tickets to London Thameslink is available from GN stations (as is current practice on the TL Bedford line) - as tickets to London terminals under current arrangements would not be valid south of St Pancras.

 

[Class377/5]

They would need to change the ticketing so that the equivalent of booking through tickets to London Thameslink is available from GN stations (as is current practice on the TL Bedford line) - as tickets to London terminals under current arrangements would not be valid south of St Pancras.

All that would change is they asked for a new type of ticket from GN. Considering people will already have travel cards or those journeys, not difficult to set up and tell your existing database of passengers nowadays.