ChiefPlanner
Established Member
I think the Wimbledon loop is up for resignalling and recontrol - much to remain as it is I think ....(bar maybe more tram access to Wdn station)
The recently published Network Specification documents give a different GN pattern
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Network_Specifications.aspx
2 tph Kings Cross to Ely/Kings Lynn
4 tph Thameslink Core to Cambridge
2 tph (peak only) Kings Cross to Peterborough
2 tph Thameslink Core to Peterborough
2 tph Thameslink Core to Welwyn Garden City
2 tph (peak only) Kings Cross to Welwyn Garden City
2 tph Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City
4 tph (8 high peak) Moorgate to Gordon Hill/Hertford North
2 tph Moorgate to Stevenage via Hertford North
That's a fair question however Elephant & Castle is only 8 cars (expect 7 car platform 1) and on a viaduct. That cost allow will make it very difficult to justify going to 12 cars on the Catford Loop.
The recently published Network Specification documents give a different GN pattern
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Network_Specifications.aspx
2 tph Kings Cross to Ely/Kings Lynn
4 tph Thameslink Core to Cambridge
2 tph (peak only) Kings Cross to Peterborough
2 tph Thameslink Core to Peterborough
2 tph Thameslink Core to Welwyn Garden City
2 tph (peak only) Kings Cross to Welwyn Garden City
2 tph Moorgate to Welwyn Garden City
4 tph (8 high peak) Moorgate to Gordon Hill/Hertford North
2 tph Moorgate to Stevenage via Hertford North
Could Finsbury Park cope with the numbers of people changing train that would cause? It can barely get by with the current number of leapers and that is just people going to LUL.So they're falling foul to the South London problem on the Welwyn slow branch, where every line wants a service to multiple terminals. People on other lines cope when they don't have a choice, so I don't see why they should suddenly dilute high-frequency services.
I thought concentrating one side to Thameslink and the other to Moorgate was a clever use of the new lines and infrastructure - and would allow higher frequencies and simplified routing.
That's a fair question however Elephant & Castle is only 8 cars (expect 7 car platform 1) and on a viaduct. That cost allow will make it very difficult to justify going to 12 cars on the Catford Loop.
No, final plan is for Welywn Garden City trains to use SDO on a few of the stations (Harringay & Hornsey) as they will be only 6 cars long under current plans. (While 6 car 313 whizz past non stop I might add.
There is scope for a extra 12 car route but I'm not fully looked into it (and don't have an idea what route it would be).
I'm still thinking that a 9 car loop would work ok. Few signals may need moving bu other than Mitcham Junction, don't know of any major issues around the loop. Especially using SDO for a single set of doors either end. Wimbledon could be extended to 12 cars in the forthcoming rebuild anyway.
I thought concentrating one side to Thameslink and the other to Moorgate was a clever use of the new lines and infrastructure - and would allow higher frequencies and simplified routing.
Track laying on the flyover is due to take place on 10-12 February
http://hitchingradeseparation.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/wintery-scene-at-construction-site.html
Officially the flyover is in use from December but I think the plan is to use it from June onwards.
Are all 4tph Cambridge services running via Welwyn, as together with 2tph KX-Kings Lynn and 2tph to Peterborough that is double the current number of off-peak FCC outer services running through Stevenage.
I assume the 2tph to Peterborough will both be fast south of Stevenage so the semi-fast calling at Intermediate stations now go to Cambridge (previously I think 1 of these was to terminate at Letchworth)
there is no mention of the Moorgate - Stevenage via Hertford train going on to Letchworth any more so probably at least 1tph of the Cambridge services will partially replace this?
I'd assume they'd want to run all the Cambridge services via Welwyn, as it would otherwise add a considerable amount of time onto the journey. I also assume the KGX - Ely/Lynn service will be 2 tph Cambridge Cruisers, meaning the other 4 (from the core), will be 2tph semi-fast (Finsbury Pk, Stevenage then all-stations) and 2tph slow (Finsbury Pk, Potters Bar, Hatfield, then all-stations), which I believe is currently 1tph each. Will this then take Letchworth CS out of use.
The recently published Network Specification documents give a different GN pattern
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/Network_Specifications.aspx
I doubt they will have 4tph stopping at all stations on the Cambridge branch. It will probably be two fast, two all-stations, two semi-fast (Letchworth, Baldock and Royston only)
Are you sure about Hornsey and Harringay though, last time I checked these stations were going to be extended to 8 cars - think it was some Network Rail or FCC document I saw.
Much like Alexandra Palace was going to be extended to 12 cars as well.
Elephant has been terribly handled, not solely because of the viaduct and "it's difficult and costly to be extended" but because of the immediate surrounding area. Both at the south end of platform 1 and the north end of platform 4 new buildings have gone up that have chewed up all the space.
Ignoring Elephant though, has any reason been given to anything else from Denmark Hill to Sevenoaks that cannot be extended?
Don't forget that platform is actually 7 cars.
I'm not sure but is there room on the viaduct to make Denmark Hill 12 cars? I'm not familiar with platform lengths on that part of the network.
However rebuilding Elephant is only soluation but that may require a fair bit if land. Is the ex council estate still empty? Been awhile since I was last there.
Elephant has been terribly handled, not solely because of the viaduct and "it's difficult and costly to be extended" but because of the immediate surrounding area. Both at the south end of platform 1 and the north end of platform 4 new buildings have gone up that have chewed up all the space.
Ignoring Elephant though, has any reason been given to anything else from Denmark Hill to Sevenoaks that cannot be extended?
Right where shall I start ( by ends London end obvious, country end = Sevenoaks
*snip*
Hope that helps.
C Johnson has got it right - this is a political decision, not a transport one.
As he says, doesn't hurt to have the transport minister as MP for Wimbledon or the fact that the line serves the highly marginal constituencies of Sutton & Cheam and Tooting.
It's still there. I think it's been empty from when work on rebuilding Blackfriars started. I believe Elephant's (terrible, dated) connecting shopping centre is due to be demolished in 2014. I don't know the planning permission but it may allow provision for extra space. Even then, i don't know how much good that will do if the buildings at all 4 corners aren't demolished to make more room.
Random thought: I would have preferred a Westfield Elephant over a Westfield Croydon (or possibly Stratford) mainly because the whole area needs regenerating, including the station and surrounding areas/homes.
Cletus said:A typically detailed London Reconnections article:
Rumour has it that the Caterham and Tattenham Corner branches will be losing their proposed Thameslink service and it will be shifted elsewhere. I have no reliable source for this but it is what has been said elsewhere by general speculation.
But of course the entire route proposals are essentially speculation at the moment. Any "proposed" routes are just that and subject to change.
Rumour has it that the Caterham and Tattenham Corner branches will be losing their proposed Thameslink service and it will be shifted elsewhere. I have no reliable source for this but it is what has been said elsewhere by general speculation.
But of course the entire route proposals are essentially speculation at the moment. Any "proposed" routes are just that and subject to change.
Rumour has it that the Caterham and Tattenham Corner branches will be losing their proposed Thameslink service and it will be shifted elsewhere. I have no reliable source for this but it is what has been said elsewhere by general speculation.
But of course the entire route proposals are essentially speculation at the moment. Any "proposed" routes are just that and subject to change.
Are those branches going to be handied over to Overground? Thameslink then getting somewhere a bit further out.
Shame as even though neither are heavy hitters, it kept Thameslink within the zones but offering a fast service to these suburbs. They used to only get slows!
It was neat and tidy too.
Are those branches going to be handied over to Overground? Thameslink then getting somewhere a bit further out.
Why do you assume it makes them get fast services? Would have been simple transferring of routes to Thameslink after New Cross Gate. Thameslink is still expected to provide some services on the slows between Croydon and London Bridge according to NR CP4 update in December.