The £1000 ticket

[Goatboy]

The press in 2009 were full of stories of the first £1000 ticket - a completely pointless (Because it's more expensive than the All Line Rover) First Class return from Newquay to Kyle of Localsh.

However a quick check on BRFares reveals that this ticket is infact £738 via London and £640 Any Permitted.

is this a rare example of a significant fare reduction, or was it never a grand in the first place?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8340561.stm

 

[Yew]

I think was reduced after the press headlines.

 

[wintonian]

Ah but it means they can put something else up by a shocking amount - reduce fare A with 10 sales in a year and increase fare B that had 100+ sales in the same period and then enjoy doing the maths.

 

[Eagle]

The press in 2009 were full of stories of the first £1000 ticket - a completely pointless (Because it's more expensive than the All Line Rover) First Class return from Newquay to Kyle of Localsh.

No. It wasn't completely pointless; it's valid for 31 days whereas the FALR is only valid for 14. If you wanted to return after two to four weeks you'd need this return.

(Although of course advances or ticket splits, particularly on the bits of the route where First Class isn't available, would have knocked hundreds off the price anyway.)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
(For reference, I believe the 14-day FALR was £950-ish at the time. It's now £1040.)

 

[barrykas]

After that story appeared, CrossCountry did a mass revision to cap their Anytime Returns (in both classes) to something like £10 less than the relevant 7 Day All Line Rover.

 

[calc7]

Ah but it means they can put something else up by a shocking amount - reduce fare A with 10 sales in a year and increase fare B that had 100+ sales in the same period and then enjoy doing the maths.

First Class fares aren't regulated?

 

[CompactDstrxion]

List 1: Ardrossan Harbour, Ardrossan South Beach, Ardrossan Town, Barassie, Bogston, Branchton, Cartsdyke, Dalry, Drumfrochar, Fairlie, Fort Matilda, Glengarnock, Gourock, Greenock Central, Greenock West, IBM, Inverkip, Irvine, Largs, Lochwinnoch, Kilwinning, Port Glasgow, Saltcoats, Stevenston, Woodhall, Wemyss Bay, West Kilbride, Whinhill

To

List 2: Avoncliff, Bath Spa, Bradford-on-Avon, Dilton Marsh, Freshford, Frome, Oldfield Park, Trowbridge, Warminster, Westbury

via London have First Anytime Returns costing £1,206. The fare setter is that company everyone seems to love, Virgin West Coast.

 

[wintonian]

First Class fares aren't regulated?

Good point - but the principle probably applies to their annual share holder report.

 

[All Line Rover]

List 1: Ardrossan Harbour, Ardrossan South Beach, Ardrossan Town, Barassie, Bogston, Branchton, Cartsdyke, Dalry, Drumfrochar, Fairlie, Fort Matilda, Glengarnock, Gourock, Greenock Central, Greenock West, IBM, Inverkip, Irvine, Largs, Lochwinnoch, Kilwinning, Port Glasgow, Saltcoats, Stevenston, Woodhall, Wemyss Bay, West Kilbride, Whinhill

To

List 2: Avoncliff, Bath Spa, Bradford-on-Avon, Dilton Marsh, Freshford, Frome, Oldfield Park, Trowbridge, Warminster, Westbury

via London have First Anytime Returns costing £1,206. The fare setter is that company everyone seems to love, Virgin West Coast.

Seems like an anomaly to me, as the 'not via London' FOR is £361 and splitting in London reduces the 'via London' fare to around £750.

 

[Roverman]

If these fares were being bought by people then we would have heard of them long before the papers played about with the NR website!

As others have pointed out, you can split many journeys to bring down the price as well as look at the possibility of buying 2 singles instead of one return.

Also, would a ticket seller at the station sell a £1000 ticket if they knew the passenger could legally travel that route for £700 or even £360?

 

[dvboy]

"if they knew"

What are the chances of them knowing?

 

[kieron]

Seems like an anomaly to me, as the 'not via London' FOR is £361 and splitting in London reduces the 'via London' fare to around £750.

Particularly as the Dorchester-Gourock equivalent fare is only £616, despite having a dearer standard anytime return.

 

[Eagle]

Also, would a ticket seller at the station sell a £1000 ticket if they knew the passenger could legally travel that route for £700 or even £360?

The ticket seller has to sell the customer just what they ask for.

 

[Be3G]

…although I have heard of ticket clerks suggesting All Line Rovers to people who turn up at a station wanting tickets for two or three big journeys that'd work out cheaper with such a rover.

 

[barrykas]

…although I have heard of ticket clerks suggesting All Line Rovers to people who turn up at a station wanting tickets for two or three big journeys that'd work out cheaper with such a rover.

Which is fine, providing the time restrictions are complied with!

 

[sheff1]

The ticket seller has to sell the customer just what they ask for.

... unless the ticket seller is based at Sheffield station, in which case they are apparently perfectly entitled to refuse point blank to sell the ticket requested

 

[Roverman]

The ticket seller has to sell the customer just what they ask for.

So the service is 'execeution only' rather than 'advised or informed'.

 

[bb21]

So the service is 'execeution only' rather than 'advised or informed'.

They can advise the passenger of any applicable restrictions to said ticket, but should not be refusing sale.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

After that story appeared, CrossCountry did a mass revision to cap their Anytime Returns (in both classes) to something like £10 less than the relevant 7 Day All Line Rover.

The XC FOR from Penzance to anywhere north of Crewe/Derby is £640.
So the northern half of your Penzance-Kyle ticket is "free".

 

[Eagle]

The XC FOR from Penzance to anywhere north of Crewe/Derby is £640.
So the northern half of your Penzance-Kyle ticket is "free".

In that case can I just have the free bit?

(In the manner of this.)

 

[Goatboy]

The XC FOR from Penzance to anywhere north of Crewe/Derby is £640.

Yet more rational and sensible ticketing from XC

Presumably demonstrating that some of the prices are so bonkers they need to cap the fares somewhere or they'd be huge for the ultra long distance stuff if it were priced with the same methodology

Or perhaps they saw Southern's useful no-nonsense capped fares and thought it was a good idea?

I wonder what sort of person would ever pay £640 to travel from Penzance to Derby and back on a Voyager? I'd imagine a Chauffuer driven Mercedes would be cheaper and quicker and probably more the sort of thing somebody with a £640 travel budget for that sort of trip would be accustomed to.

 

[Eagle]

I wonder what sort of person would ever pay £640 to travel from Penzance to Derby and back on a Voyager? I'd imagine a Chauffuer driven Mercedes would be cheaper and quicker and probably more the sort of thing somebody with a £640 travel budget for that sort of trip would be accustomed to.

Bollocks. I seriously doubt you could hire a chauffeur-driven car for a 500-mile journey for less than several thousand.

An ordinary taxi would be at least £1000.

 

[Simon11]

Its also not really comparable as xc services are hourly and they can travel on any train whereas they would have to book a chauffer in advance and not be able to travel within an hour of wishing to go via the car.

 

[Goatboy]

Bollocks. I seriously doubt you could hire a chauffeur-driven car for a 500-mile journey for less than several thousand.

An ordinary taxi would be at least £1000.

Many firms do airport and executive transfers of some distance and do not charge 4 figures for it. It'd be 4 figures using the local hackney tariff (Actually £1500) but firms offering long distance transfers do not charge hackney rate. You can book E Class transfers for about £1.60+vat a mile. Yes, yes, I know, its a walkon fare but you are over-analysing my point. Which is that nobody who would spend £640 going to Derby and back would pick XC with which to do it.

It's academic anyway as I'd imagine the number of £640 FOR's XC have sold from Cornwall in the last year would be circa zero. Nobody buys them. Which makes these fares a fundamental waste of the space they occupy in the fares database. One wonders if perhaps more reasonably priced options might increase revenue by increasing the number of customers on a ticket like this from the currenet level of nil. Half the price is still expensive enough to ensure that almost nobody would bother but if you pick up 10 extra customers over a year thats £3200 you'd not have had before.

It's not as if a £320 FOR would suddenly cause a run on the ticket office and standing room only through the sheer number of bargain hunters desperate to buy it.

 

[Eagle]

In terms of journey time though, it looks like it'd be about the same (region of 6 hours).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Which is that nobody who would send £640 going to Derby and back would pick XC with which to do it.

Generalization alert. How do you know no one would do that? There are many advantages to a train (any train) over a car, for instance.

 

[bb21]

The price was capped at £640 at the next round of fares revision immediately following the story of the £1068 Newquay - Kyle FOR got out into the papers. That was about two years ago. There would appear to have been no increase since then and this cap has nothing to do with Southern's cap on off-peak fares, as it predates Southern's practice.

 

[Goatboy]

Generalization alert. How do you know no one would do that? There are many advantages to a train (any train) over a car, for instance.

XC themselves said nobody buys these tickets when they hit the news a few years back so it's a reasonable assumption. We'll obviously never know for sure but I think we both know that if the number isn't zero it's going to be single digits per year at the very most.

Can you imagine a scenario whereby somebody would buy such a ticket? It would take a chain of unlikely low probability events for it to happen. Firstly, somebody wealthy enough that a £640 train ticket to the Midlands doesn't seem like a ridiculous idea would need to decide to travel. Improbable, but possible. Then they'd need to either suddenly decide they need to travel immediatly to the Midlands for £640 with almost zero notice, or that they have no idea when they are returning and would value the flexibility enough to significantly increase the fare. Possible in isolation, but combined with the first, even more unlikely. And then, to cap it all off, they'd need to have randomly decided they had to travel right now, AND they didnt mind paying the huge fare AND they wanted to leave before 9.30am. Because otherwise they'd buy the First Offpeak Return at almost HALF the price.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There would appear to have been no increase since then and this cap has nothing to do with Southern's cap on off-peak fares, as it predates Southern's practice.

I was being sarcastic with the Southern comment

 

[Zoe]

Didn't XC until recently allow the use of Off Peak tickets on peak trains from the South West for journeys beyond Birmingham? I believe this was withdawn as a range of advance fares has now been introduced for these journeys.

 

[Eagle]

Can you imagine a scenario whereby somebody would buy such a ticket? It would take a chain of unlikely low probability events for it to happen. Firstly, somebody wealthy enough that a £640 train ticket to the Midlands doesn't seem like a ridiculous idea would need to decide to travel. Improbable, but possible. Then they'd need to either suddenly decide they need to travel immediatly to the Midlands for £640 with almost zero notice, or that they have no idea when they are returning and would value the flexibility enough to significantly increase the fare. Possible in isolation, but combined with the first, even more unlikely.

They could be travelling for business, on company money. It's highly plausible that someone would be required to make such a journey at short notice. I can imagine many scenarios where such a ticket would need to be bought; maybe they needed to meet a client urgently, or attend a meeting. Also walk-up tickets aren't just for people who make travel plans at the last minute; maybe there were no cheaper advances available when they needed to book, maybe they needed the flexibility because they didn't know how long this meeting or conference or whatever was going to last, maybe they needed BoJ to do something in Bristol, which is impossible on Advances as you well know. You're being weirdly closed-minded about this.

And as to train versus car, I don't remember the last chauffeur car service that offered catering, toilets, the ability to stretch my legs, a table to work on, all in the back of a Merc (without pulling over somewhere).

 

[Goatboy]

They could be travelling for business, on company money. It's highly plausible that someone would be required to make such a journey at short notice. I can imagine many scenarios where such a ticket would need to be bought. You're being weirdly closed-minded about this.

You still think these is demand for these tickets don't you. I suspect that if you have convinced yourself that people actually buy First Open Returns from Penzance to Derby for £600 and I've convinced myself they don't then neither of us are going to convince the other of our point of view and as we can't access data that would answer the question we really can't go much further with it.

And as to train versus car, I don't remember the last chauffeur car service that offered catering, toilets, the ability to walk about, a table to work on, all in the back of a Merc.

It was a throwaway example to illustrate the extremity of the price. We don't need to go into extreme detail to work out if somebody genuinelly would sit and think 'I need to go to Derby, in 32 seconds time, before 9am. Should I get somebody to drive me, or perhaps I'd like to walk about' because it's ridiculously improbable. It was there to highlight the point, nothing more.