The Fat Controller - Watercress Line goes pc?

[John Luxton]

Like those offended by being told to call the Fat Controller "Sir Topham Hatt"....

Swings and roundabouts..

I don't think anyone is offended by using Sir Topham Hatt the names are interchangeable it is the fact that someone there is effectively policing /enforcing the change from Fat Controller to Sir Topham Hatt which is the issue.

I am of the generation that always tended to know him as The Fat Controller. There are parents out there who might use that name with children.

However, as someone earlier pointed out in recent books and films he has been Sir Topham Hatt.

Why not just wait until us old fuddy duddies all die out?

Change still happens without it getting peoples' back up.

I have always been of the opinion that change is best when done gradually and with consent and they do not feel as though they are being railroaded into it.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you don't like it just don't go to the railway.

Yes, there are some things in society which change in a malign way. Using the proper name of a character - in fact, his canonically correct name - in a licensed attraction probably isn't one of the things to get annoyed about.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you don't like it just don't go to the railway.

Yes, there are some things in society which change in a malign way. Using the proper name of a character - in fact, his canonically correct name - in a licensed attraction probably isn't one of the things to get annoyed about.

I think staff rudely interrupting personal conversations, as it reads like happened, is out of order, though, other than in the "acted" way I suggested where it would be a quite amusing part of the act. What next? Security accosting me when I say to my mate "that film was rubbish" on the way out of the cinema?

 

[AlterEgo]

I think staff rudely interrupting personal conversations, as it reads like happened, is out of order, though, other than in the "acted" way I suggested where it would be a quite amusing part of the act. What next? Security accosting me when I say to my mate "that film was rubbish" on the way out of the cinema?

If that happened in the way it was reported, it's rude of the staff member. I will place a wager this anonymous, unsourced story, corroborated only by Jeremy Kyle, did not happen.

 

[the sniper]

If a very enthusiastic preservation railway volunteer Station Master (AKA to a normal, as a "staff member") hears a Normal refer to their station as a "train station" and interjects, informing them that it is actually a "railway station", would it make the Daily Mail? Would a normal even realise how badly they'd been scolded...?

 

[railfan99]

What a storm in a teacup. Typical daily mail froth baiting. A Heritage railway volunteer was slightly brusque in upholding the wishes of the owner of a commercial product the railway had licensed.

The decline of the West continues with ill-advised, unjustified political correctness. The 'Fat Controller' is fat, so words ought reflect reality, not cater to the perpetually offended.

We are losing the ability across the Western world to laugh at ourselves. Barry Humphries would have something to say about this sort of nonsense.

If this is the Watercress Line's management's attitude, then 'go woke, go broke' is relevant.

On a forthcoming trip from Oz, I'm happy that I didn't even think of including this line in my intensive travels (largely because I assumed the scenery was quite mundane, and I wanted to concentrate on ones further from Londres).

 

[43096]

Just spotted a story on the Daily Mail web site concerning a family being told they can't call the Fat Controller the Fat Controller it has to be Sir Topham Hatt!

Thomas the Tank Engine attraction bans The FAT Controller 'slur' https://mol.im/a/11105619 via https://dailym.ai/android

"A family day out at the Watercress Line railway in Hampshire took an unusual turn when a staff member requested that they refer to The Fat Controller by his real name, Sir Topham Hatt.'"

To be honest I am quite appalled that a traditional children's character has fallen to the politically correct brigade.

I seem to recall from my reading of the Railway Series that there was also a Thin Controller and a Small Controller at other Sodor Lines are they being renamed?

So someone dressed up as the Fat Controller gets offended at being called the Fat Controller. Well don’t volunteer to dress up like that if you’re worried about being called the Fat Controller or using the wrong pronoun or whatever.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The decline of the West continues with ill-advised, unjustified political correctness. The 'Fat Controller' is fat, so words ought reflect reality, not cater to the perpetually offended.

I'm fat. I don't think it would be nice to walk up to me and say "oi, fat bloke", do you? You might not like the reaction, and I have a name.

 

[yorksrob]

It's political correctness gone mad

 

[Ashley Hill]

Does the Thin Controller have a name?

 

[Spartacus]

Does the Thin Controller have a name?

A few apparently, complicated by there being more than one of them over the years. https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/The_Thin_Controller

I wonder if it couldn't have been done a whole lot smoother by kids being gently discouraged from calling him the Fat Controller ("Don't let him hear you call him that") in a fitting manner, wasn't there originally some "It's 'Sir Topham Hatt' to you" put downs if an engine ever dropped an FC bomb within his earshot?

 

[John Luxton]

It appears that only a few months ago the local Alton Herald was reporting on a memorial service to be held commemorating one of their volunteers who passed away an 2020.

This was under the heading "Life of Watercress Line’s ‘Fat Controller’ to be celebrated at memorial service"

Life of Watercress Line's 'Fat Controller' to be celebrated

THE LIFE of a Medstead man who in his time has been a judge, film extra and the ‘Fat Controller’ on his much-loved Watercress Line is to be remembered at a special service in the village church.

www.altonherald.com

One would say that the term was being used in very much a complimentary rather than derogatory sense as this gentleman had given a lot of voluntary service to the railway and obviously enjoyed playing the role of The Fat Controller and also apparently Father Christmas.

if anyone has been following the DM comments which have reached 1.6k in around 18 hours, people are suggesting boycotts etc.

Is that really what any heritage line needs at this time when every £1 matters?

During WWII the slogan ran "Careless talk costs lives" is it now a case that "Careless comments cost money?"

Some years ago I was staying at a west country hotel over Christmas. The local hunt used to start from outside their sister hotel a few miles away.

Having got to to know the then manager over the years my mother asked him what his opinion was on hunting.

He quite rightly said "In my job I can have no opinion on this matter."

Very sensible in my view and perhaps one that the Mid Hants needs to consider when it comes to the Fat Controller issue.

Any stewards, volunteers, staff etc might be better to consider the three wise monkeys "Hear Nothing, See Nothing and Say Nothing".

 

[zwk500]

if anyone has been following the DM comments which have reached 1.6k in around 18 hours, people are suggesting boycotts etc.

Is that really what any heritage line needs at this time when every £1 matters?

How many of those threatening to Boycott are regular users of the line, or have ever visited it? In addition, how many of the people who say they'll boycott it on social media actually follow up those threats? I suspect not too many.

He quite rightly said "In my job I can have no opinion on this matter."

Very sensible in my view and perhaps one that the Mid Hants needs to consider when it comes to the Fat Controller issue.

Mid Hant's can't avoid the issue though, if a condition of the license is not to use the name Fat Controller. However, as has now been suggested twice, they could have stayed in character - it is after all canonical within the books that Sir Topham does not like being referred to as the Fat Controller at times (although mainly to his engines, rather than customers).

I wonder if it couldn't have been done a whole lot smoother by kids being gently discouraged from calling him the Fat Controller ("Don't let him hear you call him that") in a fitting manner, wasn't there originally some "It's 'Sir Topham Hatt' to you" put downs if an engine ever dropped an FC bomb within his earshot?

Agree

 

[43066]

I think staff rudely interrupting personal conversations, as it reads like happened, is out of order, though, other than in the "acted" way I suggested where it would be a quite amusing part of the act. What next? Security accosting me when I say to my mate "that film was rubbish" on the way out of the cinema?

Frankly railway staff who go around doing that are likely to get sworn at or assaulted and it will have been brought on themselves. That’s less likely on a heritage railway but I’m sure it’s still possible!

I'm fat. I don't think it would be nice to walk up to me and say "oi, fat bloke", do you? You might not like the reaction, and I have a name.

It’s not clear from the story whether an individual staff member felt like they were being ridiculed, but ultimately anyone dressing up as a character which 99% of people know as “the fat controller” needs to expect to be called that!

As a general point this is yet another sign that people are far too thinned skinned these days and seem to think they have a divine right not to be offended.

 

[Starmill]

words ought reflect reality, not cater to the perpetually offended.

Were you never taught at school to call people by their chosen name? I was taught that this point is a highly regarded custom in British life and language.

 

[zwk500]

It’s not clear whether an individual staff member felt like they were being ridiculed, but ultimately anyone dressing up as a character which 99% of people know as “the fat controller” needs to expect to be called that!

It doesn't read like it was anybody dressed up as a Thomas character who made the rebuke, but more general train/platform staff, or somebody helping marshal crowds.
Given the desire of the licence owners to use Sir Topham Hatt and discourage Fat Controller, I can easily see the situation where the volunteers were given a briefing beforehand and told not to use Fat Controller. It's then a small jump that one staff member has taken that as an instruction to correct visitors as well.

 

[43066]

It doesn't read like it was anybody dressed up as a Thomas character who made the rebuke, but more general train/platform staff, or somebody helping marshal crowds.
Given the desire of the licence owners to use Sir Topham Hatt and discourage Fat Controller, I can easily see the situation where the volunteers were given a briefing beforehand and told not to use Fat Controller. It's then a small jump that one staff member has taken that as an instruction to correct visitors as well.

Perhaps. I agree it isn’t clear.

Frankly it’s a bit of a non story - albeit if staff (volunteers or otherwise) are trying to police peoples’ personal conversations they’re only making trouble for themselves. If people are being abusive that’s one thing, but there’s no suggestion this was anything approaching that.

 

[Lucan]

Typical daily mail froth baiting.

I don't read the Daily Mail and am never likely to. However, don't shoot the messenger. The DM have not made this rubbish up, and I know I couldn't have done either.

I thought it had been customary to refer to him as Sir Topham Hatt rather than The Fat Controller for quite some time.

Clearly his parents did not christen him "The Fat Controller", but I have never heard him normally referred to otherwise.

Who owns the copyrights to the stories anyway? What do they have to say?

 

[zwk500]

Perhaps. I agree it isn’t clear.

Frankly it’s a bit of a non story - albeit if staff (volunteers or otherwise) are trying to police peoples’ personal conversations they’re only making trouble for themselves. If people are being abusive that’s one thing, but there’s no suggestion this was anything approaching that.

The quote is that they were spoken to 'in no uncertain terms' which to me would be too much if I've paid to take my kids to a Thomas the Tank Engine event, even if it was not actually abusive. I certainly wouldn't be returning anytime soon. If the guard gave a gentle 'He prefers Sir Topham Hatt, just so you know' as I was boarding, I'd probably think it quite charming that everybody was getting into the spirit of the event.

Who owns the copyrights to the stories anyway? What do they have to say?

Don't know which organisation it is, but the whole reason this story exists is that the copyright holders started telling people when they were licensing events not to use Fat Controller but to call him Sir Topham Hatt, his canonical name.

 

[railfan99]

Were you never taught at school to call people by their chosen name? I was taught that this point is a highly regarded custom in British life and language.

Agree, but this is a character who from when I was little has always been referred to as 'The Fat Controller'.

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder what Ringo thinks about it all !

 

[James H]

I do wonder if this is a case where a volunteer with a dry sense of humour has been taken at face value - I can imagine someone making the alleged remarks in a way that was intended as humorous but has been taken seriously.

 

[Starmill]

Agree, but this is a character who from when I was little has always been referred to as 'The Fat Controller'.

To me he was always named Sir Topham, and there's a source stating that this goes back to the 1950s so I'm not sure if you're perhaps misremembering. It was a plot point after all that he would be referred to as the Fat Controller by a few other characters and he didn't like it.

 

[John Luxton]

I do wonder if this is a case where a volunteer with a dry sense of humour has been taken at face value - I can imagine someone making the alleged remarks in a way that was intended as humorous but has been taken seriously.

Yes that could be true. If so it could have backfired.

To me he was always named Sir Topham, and there's a source stating that this goes back to the 1950s

Whilst Sir Topham was occasionally mentioned by name Awdry invariably referred to him as the Fat Director later Fat Controller.

 

[Enthusiast]

Mid Hant's can't avoid the issue though, if a condition of the license is not to use the name Fat Controller...

That's a matter between them and the franchise holder and they (the railway) must obviously adhere to any terms of their contract. However, here's another report on the matter. It's from LBC (who some may say shares similarities - especially when considering the Nick Ferrari show - with the Daily Mail) but let's see:

Thomas the Tank Engine fans told to refer to the Fat Controller as Sir Topham Hatt

Fans of Thomas the Tank Engine have been told that ‘The Fat Controller’ should be referred to by his real name, Sir Topham Hatt, because the word ‘fat’ is a slur.

www.lbc.co.uk

"Fans of Thomas the Tank Engine have been told that ‘The Fat Controller’ should be referred to by his real name, Sir Topham Hatt, because the word ‘fat’ is a slur."

Staff at a heritage railway line, near Winchester, told a visiting father that the character's nickname was insulting.

He said: “We were talking about The Fat Controller when a staff member stepped in.

"In no uncertain terms we were told no one could use such a slur.”

A similar report is to be found in the Birmingham Post. Now of course we don't really know what exactly happened. But reports of a staff member "stepping in" (to what, on the face of it seems a private conversation) seem to be a common theme. It also seems (once again assuming the reports are accurate) that the admonishment had nothing to do with commercial rights. "The word 'fat' is a slur" simply indicates that to describe somebody as fat (even when they are) is prohibited. If that is the case it's outrageous. This is not (yet) a country where private conversations are monitored for "inappropriate" content. Leaving aside whether the term "Fat Controller" is acceptable or not, it is not up to heritage railways' staff to monitor and moderate their customers' private conversations. If they begin to do so they may find people voting with their feet.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A few apparently, complicated by there being more than one of them over the years. https://ttte.fandom.com/wiki/The_Thin_Controller

I wonder if it couldn't have been done a whole lot smoother by kids being gently discouraged from calling him the Fat Controller ("Don't let him hear you call him that") in a fitting manner, wasn't there originally some "It's 'Sir Topham Hatt' to you" put downs if an engine ever dropped an FC bomb within his earshot?

As I said above, "in character" is the way to do it - a posh accent and a doffing of their own hat.

That's a matter between them and the franchise holder and they (the railway) must obviously adhere to any terms of their contract. However, here's another report on the matter. It's from LBC (who some may say shares similarities - especially when considering the Nick Ferrari show - with the Daily Mail) but let's see:

LBC isn't specifically a right wing station, it is required by law to be balanced, which it does by having left and right wing presenters in roughly equal measure, e.g. James O'Brien is on the left, and David Lammy is actually a Labour politician! However it does tend to be a bit clickbaity, for good reason - it wants people to phone in!

 

[43066]

Agree, but this is a character who from when I was little has always been referred to as 'The Fat Controller'.

Let’s face it nobody who grew up with Thomas the Tank Engine (as I did) really knows him as anything other than TFC. I’d actually forgotten the official name until being reminded of it by this thread!

 

[zwk500]

A similar report is to be found in the Birmingham Post. Now of course we don't really know what exactly happened. But reports of a staff member "stepping in" (to what, on the face of it seems a private conversation) seem to be a common theme.

All the reports will be largely copy + paste of the original story, whoever published it.

It also seems (once again assuming the reports are accurate) that the admonishment had nothing to do with commercial rights.

As mentioned above, the commercial rights holder has asked for this change. My guess is that the railway briefed everybody and one staff member has taken it too fat.

"The word 'fat' is a slur" simply indicates that to describe somebody as fat (even when they are) is prohibited. If that is the case it's outrageous.

Would you really walk down the street and greet somebody as 'hello fat bloke, do you know where the post office is?' and then when they take offence say 'but you are just really fat'? Of course you wouldn't. I don't know why people persist with this 'it's a factual term' reasoning. Calling people fat has become a form of abuse and a way of marginalising/ostracising people from social groups. People have committed suicide because of abuse they have suffered due to their weight.

 

[43066]

Would you really walk down the street and greet somebody as 'hello fat bloke, do you know where the post office is?' and then when they take offence say 'but you are just really fat'? Of course you wouldn't. I don't know why people persist with this 'it's a factual term' reasoning. Calling people fat has become a form of abuse and a way of marginalising/ostracising people from social groups. People have committed suicide because of abuse they have suffered due to their weight.

It would be rude and unpleasant to do that, clearly, but there’s no suggestion anything like that happened here. Plenty of overweight people refer to themselves as fat (in fact a guy were I work refers to himself as “The Fat Controller”). “Abuse” is going to far IMO, and seems now to be extended to any viewpoint people disagree with.

We have now normalised being overweight in this country and the amount of money the NHS spends on Type 2 diabetes and its complications is truly frightening. That’s not to say people should be shamed for their weight, but equally being overweight or obese shouldn’t be advanced as some kind of lifestyle choice as the “body positivity” movement seems to want to do.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be rude and unpleasant to do that, clearly, but there’s no suggestion anything like that happened here. Plenty of overweight people refer to themselves as fat. “Abuse” is going to far IMO, and seems now to be extended to any viewpoint people disagree with.

I am fat, yes, but you wouldn't walk up and call me fat. (No, I can assure you you wouldn't, if you've met me )

We have now normalised being overweight in this country and the amount of money the NHS spends on Type 2 diabetes and its complications is truly frightening. That’s not to say people should be shamed for their weight, but equally being overweight or obese shouldn’t be advanced as some kind of lifestyle choice as the “body positivity” movement seems to want to do.

Obesity is a very difficult one, as resolving it is all tied up in body image as well, i.e. if someone considers themselves a fat slob they are unlikely to take up sport to try and resolve it, for instance.

The image you're trying to get across is a less pointed version of "there's a great body there under all that lard", but not that pointed as anorexia is really dangerous too. Pure body positivity is really best aimed at things you don't have control of.