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the Increasingly Frustrating Thameslink
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Do we know if the change to a management contract has had an effect on how GTR are handling some of their issues compared to a franchise?
Those of us who use TL from the north often smile with moderate smugness at the mile long queue for the end of the M1 at Staples Corner every morning. It's similar at Henlys Corner too where the A1 / North Circular meet. In the morning peak it usually takes longer to get from M1 J2 to the North Circular by car than it takes to get from St Albans to St Pancras by train.
The way home was worse from memory. If you leave early enough in the morning you can avoid the jams (I was on the service that joined at J9). The way home you get caught up where M25/M1 join together. On the plus side, you never had to stand on coach
The way home was worse from memory. If you leave early enough in the morning you can avoid the jams (I was on the service that joined at J9). The way home you get caught up where M25/M1 join together. On the plus side, you never had to stand on coach
If it was full, you stood at the bus stop.
That would be interesting if that happened as the whole setup with TOCs could be undermined.
I'll hasten to add that I've no evidence for such a claim but tonight 3 seperate people I know within GTR said the same and they don't work together. Things either spread quickly or something's afoot, but then we all knew that anyway. So take with a pinch (mighty big one) of salt.
Yeah; never had to do that because I was always getting on near the start of the route.
In other news - first day back wasn't too bad. Only the usually 10 - 15 min delays (apparently signalling problems mid morning).
Saw a lot more of the new stock about - painted white and with lots more tables than majority of other stock. Not entirely convinced yet - either the seats are too high or the tables are too low!
SPADTrap - interesting. It's a bit of a cursed franchise for the next few years though, I can't imagine there are many upsides to anyone being involved.
It comes out of your account all at once, so the money has to go somewhere.
It may be accounted for monthly over the course of the year, but from a cashflow point of view, someone gets it all at once.
You can read all about it in the riveting Ticketing and Settlement Agreement.
I seem to recall that the TOC that sold the season sits on the money, and it trickles to the TOCs whose services it is valid on in multiple payments throughout the year. I think there was a thread on it.
I seem to recall that the TOC that sold the season sits on the money, and it trickles to the TOCs whose services it is valid on in multiple payments throughout the year. I think there was a thread on it.
Some of those coaches look very comfortable. The Kings Ferry VIP for example
Put someone in a comfortable seat and nice lighting and they'll forgive the delay more easily than in a packed train.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
In most cases the TOC running the trains is the TOC you bought the season ticket from, especially out in the Home Counties where there's only one line and one TOC.
The issue with reliability isn't something that's fixed to Thameslink- London Midland's (also owned by GoVia, funnily enough...) punctuality and reliability is also a joke- but Thameslink struggles because of the two-tracks through the centre of town. It's a lot harder to turn things round if there's a delay.
I'd be very surprised if GoVia handed the keys back before the election.
I agree with that, it's not a bad strategy. The current administration could bend over backwards with all sorts of inducements to avoid severe embarassment on one of their pet policies at such a critical time.
ItchyRsole
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No chance.
The pre new year disruption with driver numbers being low was always going to happen. Using this service everyday, the last two weeks have been perfectly fine for all journeys I've needed to take.
Rumors in companies spread quick as people like gossip.
DelayRepay
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I must agree - having been very critical of Thameslink before Christmas, they do seem to have improved since the New Year. They're still suffering delays and by no means operating a great service, but the number of cancellations and significant delays seems fewer. I've not had a delay repay claim since before Christmas!
The Box Photter
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Thameslink was well down to its usual standard this evening.
The cursed 1W94 was delayed for the fourth consecutive day and was thus overtaken by the supposedly following service.
Both trains were then put onto the slow lines south of Harpenden, meaning that there was no way 1W94 could overtake the slower service (1G79 Beckenham Jcn - Bedford). Arrival at Flitwick was 19:00, 19 mins late.
Does anyone know what happens to northbound Thameslink trains between Hassocks & East Croydon that causes them to lose (in tonight's case 12 mins) over that distance.
It can't be the London Bridge blockade, because 1W94 never called at London Bridge and always ran via W Norwood, Tulse Hill & Elephant. Is the schedule so fragile that a train can lose 12 minutes just because of conflicting movements in 3rd rail land?
The cursed 1W94 was delayed for the fourth consecutive day and was thus overtaken by the supposedly following service.
Both trains were then put onto the slow lines south of Harpenden, meaning that there was no way 1W94 could overtake the slower service (1G79 Beckenham Jcn - Bedford). Arrival at Flitwick was 19:00, 19 mins late.
Does anyone know what happens to northbound Thameslink trains between Hassocks & East Croydon that causes them to lose (in tonight's case 12 mins) over that distance.
It can't be the London Bridge blockade, because 1W94 never called at London Bridge and always ran via W Norwood, Tulse Hill & Elephant. Is the schedule so fragile that a train can lose 12 minutes just because of conflicting movements in 3rd rail land?
Well even outside of rush hour hassocks to Haywards heath 11 trains per hour. 9 from the Heath to Three Bridges. Delays: Keymer Junction. Flat junction, line from Lewes. Slow boarding at Gatwick. A few passengers with bags holing the doors open, or just a rush down the escalators onto the train. Can cause 1-2 min delays. Quarry line/redhill line splits. Earlswood junction. Stoats nest. Lack of platform space at East Croydon. Slow boarding at ECR. Folks run down the ramp and hold the door open.
Alas, its just the case that too many trains, not enough track, and a 2 min delay at one of the pinch points means you loose the path else ware.
I was on 1W94 on Weds. The following train was correctly held for us at Herne Hill as we were about 5L (4 late start Brighton). I must say the driver was giving it the beans when he could.
Well it was. The stopping train to London Bridge that should set off from Brighton well before this service was allowed out just at the Thameslink's departure time, that left a couple of minutes later and thus got stopped all the way up. Almost all its delay had been incurred before its own first stop. That stopping train has just a 10 minute turnround at Brighton, and also previously at London Bridge. It had been getting later all afternoon, it was nearly 20 minutes late by the time it got back to London Bridge again. It's ludicrous with the present state of congestion to schedule 10 minute turnrounds at both ends all day for trains on such long runs that appear to have no capability for any time recovery en route.
Running 442s that stop at East Croydon is bonkers - it takes forever to get passengers off and on.
As for the magnitude of Thameslink delays, I was amazed even before the London Bridge issue how you could be on a Thameslink service that was getting one minute later every minute into the journey!
bengley
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I was on a Southern 377/1 yesterday running a TL service to LBG - fully southern branded and no pantograph!
Class377/5
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Thameslink has been borrowing units of Southern since 5th Jan. Its booked to do so.
Yep there's a few of these. If it's a TL service Brighton to London Bridge (or vice versa) expect a Southern 377/1 or /4.
The biggest delay I incur when working one of these (between the points you mention) is usually coming into Gatwick. Often you are already a couple of minutes late as you've caught something up around Haywards Heath (or there is a Victoria bound service just in front of you) but you seem to forever be delayed waiting for a Gatwick Express to leave. Even if it's not heading out from the Up Fast platform, the fact it is crossing in front of you keeps the signal before Gatwick at red. Gatwick is also notoriously slow to board and the dispatchers seem to take ages to give you the CD indication (I know they are constantly fired questions from lost passengers so not a criticism).The Box Photter said:
The Box Photter
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There seems to be a problem at the moment with signallers giving priority to the "wrong" trains, ie. putting a "stopper" in front of a "fast", especially on the northbound approach to Blackfriars. It isn't much of a problem through the Core, but north of StP, unless the "fast" can get onto the down fast line, it can be baulked all the way up to St Albans and beyond, thus getting progressively more delayed through the journey.
Are these signalling decisions taken by the human or by some clever computer algorithm? I ask because the decison should take into account whether delaying a stopper by 2 mins to allow an already delayed fast through could result in the fast making up time whilst the stopper must have additional slack in its timings that could easily recover a couple of lost minutes.
By the way, in response to the comment about putting a 442 on the London Bridge service, I'd be happy to ride a 442 on a fast BedPan service (subject to the necessary AC mods) in place of the "Spartan-Spec" 387 or "Dustbin-Spec" 319.
Are these signalling decisions taken by the human or by some clever computer algorithm? I ask because the decison should take into account whether delaying a stopper by 2 mins to allow an already delayed fast through could result in the fast making up time whilst the stopper must have additional slack in its timings that could easily recover a couple of lost minutes.
By the way, in response to the comment about putting a 442 on the London Bridge service, I'd be happy to ride a 442 on a fast BedPan service (subject to the necessary AC mods) in place of the "Spartan-Spec" 387 or "Dustbin-Spec" 319.
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
What annoys most is the lack of follow up information. Last Saturday we came back from a long journey arriving at Euston and headed up to Kentish Town only to find the 21:51 N/B stopping service cancelled with no explanation or information as to when (or even if) there would be a subsequent train.
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