The Key ITSO Smartcard

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by Lrd, 9 Nov 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Lrd

    Lrd Established Member

    Messages:
    2,999
    Joined:
    26 Jul 2010
    Hello all,

    Having just read on my local bus operator's website (Link) that they are introducing Go-Ahead's version of the ITSO smartcard, The Key, I ended up browsing the other companies that are owned by Go-Ahead and noticed that they already have The Key and can purchase tickets online. Here and here.

    I was wondering how many other bus companies out there that offer a form of smartcard for their services?

    I also heard that First are introducing new ticket machines that can read debit/credit cards (here) and allow the passenger to board without needing cash, surely this isn't needed if they will be accepting ITSO as well?

    What are your thought's on ITSO? Do you think it will work as well as everyone is hoping? Do any of you use it? (Apart from Oyster (I know it's not ITSO, but it's similar)).

    Is Southampton just slow to catch on and everyone uses it everywhere else already?

    Thanks
    Lewis
     
  2. Registered users do not see these banners - join or log in today!

    Rail Forums

     
  3. district

    district Member

    Messages:
    957
    Joined:
    4 Aug 2011
    Location:
    SE16
    Stagecoach in East Kent has the Stagecoach Smartcard, which doesn't hold PAYG but only megarider/goldrider/longer bus seasons. Freedom Passes are equipped with this contactless technology as well, which causes mayhem with all the pupils at school in the afternoon fiddling with the passes.
     
  4. radamfi

    radamfi Established Member

    Messages:
    7,277
    Joined:
    29 Oct 2009
    Smartcards has mostly been implemented for season tickets which is nice, but doesn't really save boarding time compared to paper season tickets. The real benefit of smartcards comes with pay as you go travel. Pay as you go on Oyster is obviously as fast as a season ticket as London benefits from a flat fare system. Mango on Trent Barton is also quick as it uses the touch in touch out system to calculate the fare as used on the Dutch OV-Chipkaart. However if it is merely being used as an electronic purse and if you still have to ask the driver for a ticket then there is limited benefit, other than not needing to give change.
     
  5. Wyvern

    Wyvern Established Member

    Messages:
    1,574
    Joined:
    27 Oct 2009
    East Midlands Trains has installed readers at their stations on the main line for journeys to St. Pancras but I dont believe they are working yet.
     
  6. ushawk

    ushawk Established Member

    Messages:
    1,965
    Joined:
    5 Nov 2010
    Location:
    Eastbourne
    Stagecoach have their "Smart" ITSO cards in East Kent/East Sussex, Oxfordshire, Manchester and Cambridgeshire, Brighton and Hove have just introduced their version of The Key and Southern are trialling The Key between Brighton and Seaford. The first 2 arent currently PAYG, unsure about Southern - id thought it would be really.

    Then of course you have the Oyster in London.
     
  7. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    16,310
    Joined:
    7 Aug 2005
    Location:
    0035
    Wessex Connect and Wessex Red buses in Greater Bristol have a Smartcard system which gives 16% off day tickets and single fares versus the cash fare. They are not Itso, but just as slow and rubbish as Itso.
     
  8. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

    Messages:
    8,922
    Joined:
    25 Feb 2010
    First and Stagecoach are both operating full national rollout within two year programmes.
     
  9. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    22,756
    Joined:
    4 Feb 2010
    Worst Group is introducing the Almex Optima BL machines with this scheme. There is a feature in last month's Buses. I will upload a copy later.
     
  10. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

    Messages:
    9,060
    Joined:
    7 Nov 2008
    Trent Barton have mango, and NCT have the Citycard, which was the first contactless smartcard in the UK :)
     
  11. cdonnigan

    cdonnigan Member

    Messages:
    156
    Joined:
    15 Jan 2011
    The go north east key card is the biggest mistake the company has ever made. They have nothing but problems since the launch of it and still have problems even now with it.
     
  12. 142094

    142094 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,774
    Joined:
    7 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Newcastle
    ITSO has been actually a very good sucess - mainly due to the fact it has standardised the operating system across the UK, which has had several benefits. Smartcards have been around for quite a while now so transport is still behind the game but there'll be a time in the future where you should be able to travel across the country using only one card, regardless of its branding.
     
  13. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    22,756
    Joined:
    4 Feb 2010
    This is the feature on Worst Group as I promised earlier.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. markydh

    markydh Member

    Messages:
    225
    Joined:
    30 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Newcastle upon Tyne
    That's just not true. There were some limited teething problems when The Key was first introduced and the main problems now seem to be just people not receiving their Key cards and the occasional mis-scanning. And First Group's smart card sounds like it will be a lot more intuitive than either Stagecoach Smart or Go-Ahead's The Key, which are both just electronic versions of paper weekly/monthly/quarterly/annual tickets at the moment.
     
  15. Lrd

    Lrd Established Member

    Messages:
    2,999
    Joined:
    26 Jul 2010
    Wow! That is worse than I thought, how can they expect passengers to get their debit/credit card out twice whereas before they only had to interact with the driver once. I can see the skepticism some will have with having to "pay" twice.

    Why have they gone in the complete opposite direction to everyone else?
     
  16. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    16,310
    Joined:
    7 Aug 2005
    Location:
    0035
    There should be no need to interact with the driver.
    Probably because it's better than everyone else's idea where flat fares don't exist. Trent Barton (IIRC) require you to touch in and out. Bus operators with Smartcard payment require you to place your card on the reader, state your destination to the driver and most even make you take a ticket. This whole process is even slower than someone paying with the exact cash fare!
     
  17. Wyvern

    Wyvern Established Member

    Messages:
    1,574
    Joined:
    27 Oct 2009
    This seems to me to be the most satisfactory system, as you have a printed receipt in case the card reader cocks up.

    It doesnt hold anyone up. Trent Barton already work this way with Old Fogey's passes, except you dont touch a reader.

    PS: Not derogatory - I am an old fogey 8-)
     
    Last edited: 14 Nov 2011
  18. Stats

    Stats Member

    Messages:
    943
    Joined:
    27 Sep 2009
    Because smartcards are only a stopgap and will be largely redundant within 10 years. Why invent a smartcard with all the additional administration costs when banks are issuing technology that does the job just as well? Even TfL is moving towards replacing Oyster with contactless bankcards as being the primary means of payment.
     
  19. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

    Messages:
    9,417
    Joined:
    26 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Wonder how much they charge if you don't "touch out". Just to the end of the route?
     
  20. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    16,310
    Joined:
    7 Aug 2005
    Location:
    0035
    What's the likelihood of that? Doesn't seem to be a problem in London where you don't get any proof of you having touched in.
    I disagree. Bus routes where people pay cash, or present a free pass and then have to get a ticket is incredibly slow. Compare this to boarding a bus in London where you don't even have to stop walking.
     
  21. Wyvern

    Wyvern Established Member

    Messages:
    1,574
    Joined:
    27 Oct 2009
    I think it's very likely. I'm quite certain I dont trust machines (or their designers) in any way at all - and I have worked in electronic engineering for nearly fifty years. As I remember from the last times I used my Oyster card, the machine's display responded. And we've seen threads on this forum of the problems when things have gone wrong.

    Showing a pass, stating your destination and getting a ticket is no slower than using the ITSO machine and getting a response.
     
  22. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Messages:
    16,310
    Joined:
    7 Aug 2005
    Location:
    0035
    I disagree. Getting a response from an Itso machine takes no time at all (although it's slower than Oyster). This means a customer can get on the bus and not even stop walking!

    Showing a pass, or stating a destination requires time to look up the fare on the machine, print and collect the ticket. Bus passes in Bristol take around 10 seconds to deal with. A recent Smartcard transaction on a bus took 15 seconds, the ticket was placed on reader, destination stated, driver pressed a few buttons, ticket printed and card removed.
     
  23. 142094

    142094 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,774
    Joined:
    7 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Mainly due to the fact that the bank will add charges for the use of a Paywave card whereas to top up on an Oyster/ITSO smartcard, the company involved (whether it be TfL, a TOC, PTE or bus operator) doesn't necessaily have to pay any further costs for the transaction.

    Many people would also feel uncomfortable in having to get a credit/debit card out of their wallet each time they need to pay for a fare.
     
  24. Deerfold

    Deerfold Established Member

    Messages:
    9,417
    Joined:
    26 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    I'd have expected similar fees for both types of transaction - is this not likely to be the case?
     
  25. Stats

    Stats Member

    Messages:
    943
    Joined:
    27 Sep 2009
    According to TfL 14% of Oyster revenue is spent on administering the system. They estimate that using contactless bank cards instead of Oyster will save them in the region of £20m a year.
    Source: http://www.londonlovesbusiness.com/...ls-plans-for-contactless-payments/435.article
     
  26. 142094

    142094 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,774
    Joined:
    7 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Depends on how you top up your smartcard - if it isn't by card then the company doesn't have to pay a fee. Also, many people top up using direct debits, which AIUI isn't as costly to the TOC/PTE etc.

    I've heard the 14p in the £1 figure before but this is for the whole system - including the back office work and maintenace of card readers etc. Some of the back office work is beneficial for TfL - such as looking at the data generated, which can be fed into future demand models and other things.
     
  27. Lrd

    Lrd Established Member

    Messages:
    2,999
    Joined:
    26 Jul 2010
    I would much rather get an Oyster/ITSO card out rather than my bank card. If I lose my bank card, then it's almost my whole life down the drain. If I lose an Oyster/ITSO card then the most I will lose is a travel ticket and will be able to use my bank card to purchase another, it may be an inconvenience but all is not lost.
     
  28. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    22,756
    Joined:
    4 Feb 2010
    Yes. You're charged to the end of the route, however the risk of forgetting to touch out is not too bad considering that you get 25% (35% in my case) off single fares. They also cap at the zigzag rate for a day.

    Question 6
    https://www.trentbarton-mango.co.uk/faqs.aspx

    Me being one. Losing a smartcard might only mean a potential loss of a few quid. Lose a bank card and the potential loss can be much bigger, also bear in mind the increased likelihood of losing the bank card of one has to take it out of the pocket and put it back in repeatedly during the day.

    Why are we obsessed with having everything in one? There are huge drawbacks with everything being in one physical object. Carrying an extra surely doesn't hurt.

    I believe the 14p figure includes the initial set-up costs of the system? The real figure for running costs should be much lower than that.

    Not to mention the huge inconvenience of getting a new card and what to do whilst waiting for it to be made. I had my current account card swallowed by a cash machine last Christmas Eve and I had to go without any money until 29th December when the banks reopened. Despite ringing up the hotline straight after I lost my card, I had to wait until 5th January before the new card arrived.
     
  29. markydh

    markydh Member

    Messages:
    225
    Joined:
    30 Jan 2011
    Location:
    Newcastle upon Tyne
    And how many holders of Key cards have no reason to complain or post on GNE's free-for-all facebook page? The percentage of people who have problems is miniscule. As always, those who have reason to complain will do so forcefully. Those who have no reason won't say anything at all.
     
  30. 142094

    142094 Established Member

    Messages:
    8,774
    Joined:
    7 Nov 2009
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Can't remember what is exactly includes as I've heard different things from different sources. However data is one of the most valuable things from TfL's point of view - you'd have to employ thousands of people to get that data and they get it for basically free.

    Not many people realise that when they buy a TomTom they automatically give their consent for data to be collected anonymously, such as route choice and speed etc. In Germany I know of one company who has bought a lot of this data (at a good price for both them and TomTom) to influence motorway advertising. So it is $$$ all around (or €€€).
     
  31. ChathillMan

    ChathillMan Member

    Messages:
    265
    Joined:
    13 Sep 2010
    I understand from a source inside GNE that only under 1% of cards produced so far have had a fault and when problems are found they get acted upon right away, they need to sort the Facebook page though as they have created a monster trying to manage customers comments on it.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page