The London Underground 'Network of Track'

[GardenRail]

I have always been amazed by the London Underground, as a semi-regular visitor to London. I have a question, but I'm not sure how to word it in and understandable way, so please humour me.

For a moment just forget loading gauge of the different trains and the lines they use. Is it, in theory, possible to get a London Underground Train from anywhere on the network, to anywhere on the network? Are all the lines ultimately joined up, whether that be by traversing some Network Rail Track, or directly via the Undergrounds Network? Or are all the lines, self contained with no link to the rest of the network?

I hope that makes sense.

Thanks.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Are all the lines ultimately joined up

Yes.

Detailled London transport map (track, depot, ...)

cartometro.com

 

[hexagon789]

I have always been amazed by the London Underground, as a semi-regular visitor to London. I have a question, but I'm not sure how to word it in and understandable way, so please humour me.

For a moment just forget loading gauge of the different trains and the lines they use. Is it, in theory, possible to get a London Underground Train from anywhere on the network, to anywhere on the network? Are all the lines ultimately joined up, whether that be by traversing some Network Rail Track, or directly via the Undergrounds Network? Or are all the lines, self contained with no link to the rest of the network?

I hope that makes sense.

Thanks.

The Waterloo & City line is unconnected to any other. I think all the others have at least one connection with another line.

 

[357]

Yes.

No.

 

[GardenRail]

Brilliant, thank you, both.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

No.

In my mind, it's the weekend

 

[AM9]

I have always been amazed by the London Underground, as a semi-regular visitor to London. I have a question, but I'm not sure how to word it in and understandable way, so please humour me.

For a moment just forget loading gauge of the different trains and the lines they use. Is it, in theory, possible to get a London Underground Train from anywhere on the network, to anywhere on the network? Are all the lines ultimately joined up, whether that be by traversing some Network Rail Track, or directly via the Undergrounds Network? Or are all the lines, self contained with no link to the rest of the network?

I hope that makes sense.

Thanks.

There is one other characteristic that might need considering before venturing outside a stocks' native territory, that is the height of the outer conductor rail above the running rails. Owing to the slightly smaller tunnels through which the Central Line trains run, the conductor rail is slightlly higher and accordingly, its trains need the collector shoes to operate slightly higher, so that would mean an adjustment when transferring between that line and all the others.

 

[Central]

38TS couldn‘t run through the original tunnels of the Central Line unless it’s shoes were strapped up and it was hauled by battery locos.

 

[MasterSpenny]

No.

I believe that they are completely joined up (or at least some of it), given the battery locomotives have been at the Ruislip Depot, and they have been to the now disused Jubilee Line platforms at Charing Cross, as per the below video thumbnail (not my video)

 

[EllieAquitrain]

Most of this off the top of my head so I've almost certainly missed some!

Lines that share track

• The "Sub-Surface Lines" (the Circle, District, Hammersmith & City (H&C), and Metropoltian Lines) share a lot of track, especially around the Circle Line's loop of Central London, but also the Circle and H&C Lines on the Hammersmith branch, and the District and H&C Lines between Aldgate East and Barking.
• The Piccadilly and District Lines share track between Acton Town and Ealing Common — all of these two lines' branches in this area were originally built by the District Railway.
• The Piccadilly and Metropolitan Lines share track from Rayners Lane to Uxbridge.

Connections between lines

• There are crossovers between the Piccadilly and Victoria Lines at Finsbury Park — there used to be separate pairs of platforms next to each other underground for the Piccadilly Line and the former northern terminus of the Northern City Line but these were reorganised when the Victoria Line was built to give cross-platform interchange between it and the Piccadilly Line in both directions.
• There are connections between the Bakerloo and Jubilee Lines at Baker Street, as the Jubilee Line took over what had formerly been a branch of the Bakerloo Line between there and Stanmore.
• There are connections and crossovers between the Jubilee and Metropolitan Lines around Neasden and Wembley Park, as the Stanmore Branch was originally part of the Metropolitan Railway before it transferred to the Bakerloo Line; also, this allows access to Neasden Depot for the Metropolitan Line.
• I think (but I'm not certain!) that there is still an extant connection, involving a reversal, between the Central Line's Ruislip Depot and the shared Piccadilly/Metropolitan Lines' Uxbridge Branch.
• There's a loop connecting the Northern and Piccadilly Lines at King's Cross — I don't think this has ever been used for in-service passenger trains, though.

Connections to National Rail

• There's a connection from the Chiltern Mainline at West Ruislip into the Central Line's Ruislip Depot.
• The District Line shares track with London Overground's North London Line from Gunnersbury to Richmond.
• The District Line runs over shared infrastructure with National Rail from East Putney to Wimbledon — I believe this section of line was originally part of the London & South Western Railway before the District Line's Wimbledon branch was built. I'm pretty sure a couple of in-service National Rail passenger trains still run over this section every day, for driver route retention purposes.
• The Metropolitan Line shares track with the National Rail Aylesbury Branch from Harrow-on-the-Hill to Amersham — that National Rail line was originally built by the Metropolitan Railway.
• The Bakerloo Line shares track with London Overground's Watford DC Lines from Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone.

If I understand things correctly, all London Underground lines were joined up until 1994, when the Waterloo & City Line was transferred to the Underground.

 

[Basil Jet]

The London Underground owned track is in three parts -
1) The Waterloo & City Line, which trains can only enter or leave via a crane
2) Stonebridge Park Bakerloo Line Depot, which is only connected to the Network Rail-owned "DC line"
3) The other 99%, which is connected directly via various short non-passenger tunnels, and is also connected to Stonebridge Park depot via the Network Rail-owned "DC line", as well as being connected to a few other Network Rail owned lines.
London Underground trains also travel on various Network Rail-owned lines, such as the "DC line" and a few others, but all are connected.

 

[357]

I believe that they are completely joined up (or at least some of it), given the battery locomotives have been at the Ruislip Depot, and they have been to the now disused Jubilee Line platforms at Charing Cross, as per the below video thumbnail (not my video)

there are some inter line connections but there are other restrictions such as loading gauge and signalling systems as spoken about above. Also the W&C is not connected to any other line whatsoever.

 

[GardenRail]

Thanks everyone for all your answers. Very interesting.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Most of this off the top of my head so I've almost certainly missed some!

Lines that share track

• The "Sub-Surface Lines" (the Circle, District, Hammersmith & City (H&C), and Metropoltian Lines) share a lot of track, especially around the Circle Line's loop of Central London, but also the Circle and H&C Lines on the Hammersmith branch, and the District and H&C Lines between Aldgate East and Barking.
• The Piccadilly and District Lines share track between Acton Town and Ealing Common — all of these two lines' branches in this area were originally built by the District Railway.
• The Piccadilly and Metropolitan Lines share track from Rayners Lane to Uxbridge.

Connections between lines

• There are crossovers between the Piccadilly and Victoria Lines at Finsbury Park — there used to be separate pairs of platforms next to each other underground for the Piccadilly Line and the former northern terminus of the Northern City Line but these were reorganised when the Victoria Line was built to give cross-platform interchange between it and the Piccadilly Line in both directions.
• There are connections between the Bakerloo and Jubilee Lines at Baker Street, as the Jubilee Line took over what had formerly been a branch of the Bakerloo Line between there and Stanmore.
• There are connections and crossovers between the Jubilee and Metropolitan Lines around Neasden and Wembley Park, as the Stanmore Branch was originally part of the Metropolitan Railway before it transferred to the Bakerloo Line; also, this allows access to Neasden Depot for the Metropolitan Line.
• I think (but I'm not certain!) that there is still an extant connection, involving a reversal, between the Central Line's Ruislip Depot and the shared Piccadilly/Metropolitan Lines' Uxbridge Branch.
• There's a loop connecting the Northern and Piccadilly Lines at King's Cross — I don't think this has ever been used for in-service passenger trains, though.

Connections to National Rail

• There's a connection from the Chiltern Mainline at West Ruislip into the Central Line's Ruislip Depot.
• The District Line shares track with London Overground's North London Line from Gunnersbury to Richmond.
• The District Line runs over shared infrastructure with National Rail from East Putney to Wimbledon — I believe this section of line was originally part of the London & South Western Railway before the District Line's Wimbledon branch was built. I'm pretty sure a couple of in-service National Rail passenger trains still run over this section every day, for driver route retention purposes.
• The Metropolitan Line shares track with the National Rail Aylesbury Branch from Harrow-on-the-Hill to Amersham — that National Rail line was originally built by the Metropolitan Railway.
• The Bakerloo Line shares track with London Overground's Watford DC Lines from Queens Park to Harrow & Wealdstone.

If I understand things correctly, all London Underground lines were joined up until 1994, when the Waterloo & City Line was transferred to the Underground.

The W&C was switched from BR to LU ownership [though it had been shown on LU maps for years anyway]; and - subsequently - the lift access was lost because the space was taken over for building the Eurostar terminal; access has since been via a crane next to the Waterloo Action Centre building at the end of Spur Road.

However, even before any of this, I'm not sure you'd consider the line connected to anything else in the normal way of a train simply running across a junction from one line to another, given that a carriage had to be moved up and down on a lift between lines.

 

[Somewhere]

I believe that they are completely joined up (or at least some of it), given the battery locomotives have been at the Ruislip Depot, and they have been to the now disused Jubilee Line platforms at Charing Cross, as per the below video thumbnail (not my video)

You believe, or you know?
How is the Waterloo and City connected up?

 

[MasterSpenny]

You believe, or you know?
How is the Waterloo and City connected up?

Oh, my bad, I didn’t know that the Waterloo & City wasn’t connected until I got quoted!

 

[Somewhere]

Oh, my bad, I didn’t know that the Waterloo & City wasn’t connected until I got quoted!

Fair enough!

 

[Taunton]

The W&C ... I'm not sure you'd consider the line connected to anything else in the normal way of a train simply running across a junction from one line to another, given that a carriage had to be moved up and down on a lift between lines.

The lift at Waterloo was conceptually like a turntable at depots transferring vehicles between tracks. In the days of the line having its own power station (where the current depot is) wagons of coal were taken down on it and shunted through the platforms by a small electric loco. It was a similar manner to how a number of one-time multi-level goods depots used to work.

The previous W&C cars, built in the 1940s, were taken up and down on it regularly, and I believe used to run to Eastleigh works for overhaul under their own power after the 1967 main line electrification.

 

[GardenRail]

The lift at Waterloo was conceptually like a turntable at depots transferring vehicles between tracks. In the days of the line having its own power station (where the current depot is) wagons of coal were taken down on it and shunted through the platforms by a small electric loco. It was a similar manner to how a number of one-time multi-level goods depots used to work.

The previous W&C cars, built in the 1940s, were taken up and down on it regularly, and I believe used to run to Eastleigh works for overhaul under their own power after the 1967 main line electrification.

I think it counts, the wheels didn't actually have to leave the rails.

 

[D7666]

The W&C was switched from BR to LU ownership [though it had been shown on LU maps for years anyway]; and - subsequently - the lift access was lost because the space was taken over for building the Eurostar terminal; access has since been via a crane next to the Waterloo Action Centre building at the end of Spur Road.

To be pedantic, while there is a permanent crane, as described, at Waterloo to lift items from road level into W&C, this crane can not lift tube train cars - it is SWL 1.5 t - so it did not replace the function of the lift.

Waterloo & City line crane

Because it is not linked to any other part of the network, the W&C have a road mounted crane at Waterloo to hoist parts in and out, and hire in cranes to get trains in and out when neccesary.

www.flickr.com

Lifting tube cars in an out has so far used one of those huge mobile road cranes e.g. :

Drain trains return to Waterloo

After four months in Doncaster for refurbishment the 20 Waterloo and City line carriages are being lifted back into their underground depot.

www.london-se1.co.uk

 

[Sad Sprinter]

It’s surprising they didn’t just physically connect the route to the line out of Waterloo. Would need a steep embankment but would be far more efficient.

 

[AM9]

It’s surprising they didn’t just physically connect the route to the line out of Waterloo. Would need a steep embankment but would be far more efficient.

That depends on who you mean by 'they' and when they should have built the connection. Given the nature of the site and the intensity if it's use compared with the relatively infrequent transfer of stock, I think that even if a ramp was built, getting a path to somewhere else would be as expensive and disruptive as the current methods.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

That depends on who you mean by 'they' and when they should have built the connection. Given the nature of the site and the intensity if it's use compared with the relatively infrequent transfer of stock, I think that even if a ramp was built, getting a path to somewhere else would be as expensive and disruptive as the current methods.

The LSWR/Southern Railway

 

[AM9]

The LSWR/Southern Railway

The LSWR/Southern Railway

The Waterloo underground depot was able to carry out a full maintenance programme, which meant that the Armstron lift could handle the rare transfer of cars to/from the surface. By the time that the lift was taken out of use by building the CTRL station over it, train maintenance was almost completely practical undeground and lifting the cars was well within the capability of road-going cranes and low loaders.

 

[D7666]

It’s surprising they didn’t just physically connect the route to the line out of Waterloo. Would need a steep embankment but would be far more efficient.

Something that is not needed at all, or rarely, is not "efficient"

Such a connection would cost tens of millions, if not more, and mortgaged over a 40 year vehicle life never ever cover its costs.

Forget it.

Railways do not need to join dots like a dot to dot puzzle; why not suggest we build a dedicated maintenance bridge to I.O.W. just to move 484s about once every blue moon ?

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Railways do not need to join dots like a dot to dot puzzle; why not suggest we build a dedicated maintenance bridge to I.O.W. just to move 484s about once every blue moon ?

A Waterloo to Shanklin express? Now that's an interesting idea...

 

[357]

A Waterloo to Shanklin express? Now that's an interesting idea...

Use the new connection from the W&C to make it a Bank to Shanklin through service!

 

[Meglos]

Anyone for the Thurso to Wootton sleeper service?

 

[Sunil_P]

Am I the only one who thinks that, since "City" was renamed to match the rest of Bank station 80-odd years ago, the line should be renamed "Waterloo & Bank line"?

 

[D7666]

Am I the only one who thinks that, since "City" was renamed to match the rest of Bank station 80-odd years ago, the line should be renamed "Waterloo & Bank line"?

Yes, I dare say probably you are.

But why not go on and suggest renaming Monument as Bank (platforms X and Y) (and I can't be bothered to work out what X and Y might be).