bluegoblin7
Established Member
And even trickier to fit the power cars with tripcocks so they could go via Harrow!
I volunteer as second competent person to run without working tripcock!
And even trickier to fit the power cars with tripcocks so they could go via Harrow!
That's a mini-tour which is being sold separately.
Do you have a link to the mini-tour please? As I can't seem to find it
I volunteer as second competent person to run without working tripcock!
I believe it's not quite that simple as there have been practically zero railtours on the 'Met' for decades, although maybe a lack of paths is also a major constraint, even though a path is always found for the RHTT during leaf-fall season. What are the chances of a non-tripcock fitted loco being permitted to operate a railtour and what conditions must be met in order for that to happen?
It is fairly simple. The requirement is essentially a second competent person up front. Which is what was implied.
The second competent person more or less covers all the necessary conditions - most of which is putting the admin in place that ensures a second person is there.
Myself I am not one who could do that, my Learned Colleague almost certainly is. However, many many moons ago I was involved with organising a main line train over LU tracks - the Hastings DEMU to Watford and Stanmore and Finchley Road - in two seperate portions one behind each other;
Really, the fundamental method of working such non tripcock fitted trains over LU has not changed since then when it comes to conventionally signalled routes, which this part of the Met. main line is. For now. Some details might have been tightened up, and possibly management up the food chain might find specious objection, but at Ground Zero, it is mainly unchanged
All of which begs the question why have so few tours been routed along the Met line from Marylebone to Aylesbury, and also why any trains that have failed the tripcock tester on the Up at Amersham or on the Down at Harrow been taken out of service, even when two drivers are in the cab?
What regular trains are there that have two competent persons in the cab that are booked on duty to be doing that ? Neither Chiltern nor LU have any /normal/operation that is worked in such way AFAIK. Unless you would like to cite some. and how do you know the other person is a driver anyway ? A second person may be in the cab for all sports of reasons but that does not make that person competent. In a previous role I have have had to ride LU cabs officially; that does not make me competent to be the second person. That I can read a red or green (or even green over red ) signal as well as any layman can does not make be competent.
A train failing a tripcock tester has a fault. Faulty trains need to be taken out of service examined and rectified. Setting out with a train that does not have a tripcock is no way the same thing.
I'm aware of trains with two competent drivers in the cab that have been turned round at Harrow or Amersham due to failing the tripcock tester because the LU have denied the train access to their infrastructure. There are various reasons why two competent drivers might be in the cab together such as a driver under assessment and so on.
A train that has failed a tripcock tester is effectively the same as a train that has no tripcock fitted, as far as the LU is concerned. If a second competent person is available to assist with signal sighting, I don't see why such a train should not be permitted to continue.
A train that has failed a tripcock tester is not the same as one that has no tripcock.
The first is a fault.
The second is not.
Different rules apply.
The methods of dealing with the two scenarios are not the same.
So there's nothing to stop me organising a railtour hauled by a non-tripcock fitted locomotive as long as two competent persons are in the cab then, correct? That's very interesting.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned - at least in terms of this tour - is competence of the driver. I very much doubt that RailAdventure have crew competence via Harrow (why would they?), so to operate this way you'd need either three people in the cab (driver, route conductor, second competent person - which would be a risk assessment issue to say the least) or a driver who both signs the route and is HST competent (which is going to be, at best, hard to find). Either way, it's costing a whole lot more for a fill-in tour that is essentially there to get the set out of the way between arrival and departure of the main tour.Someone may, and quite possibly will, find detailed reasons why it can't be done, or some other obscure reason and mask it by this reason.
Or, as you wrote, pathing. Or something like that.
All I am saying is the real basic fundamental point is traction without tripcocks is not an absolute no go - and that second competent person goes most of the way to address it. To the best of my knowledge.
The path to get there might be blocked further up the food chain.
But like I said, do observe emoticons....................
although maybe a lack of paths is also a major constraint
I believe it's not quite that simple as there have been practically zero railtours on the 'Met' for decades
What are the chances of a non-tripcock fitted loco being permitted to operate a railtour and what conditions must be met in order for that to happen?
I'm aware of trains with two competent drivers in the cab that have been turned round at Harrow or Amersham due to failing the tripcock tester because the LU have denied the train access to their infrastructure. There are various reasons why two competent drivers might be in the cab together such as a driver under assessment and so on.
A train that has failed a tripcock tester is effectively the same as a train that has no tripcock fitted, as far as the LU is concerned. If a second competent person is available to assist with signal sighting, I don't see why such a train should not be permitted to continue.
Quite apart from all this, the emoticon on bluegoblin7's post ought to be heeded
Indeed, that is a very valid point.One thing that hasn't been mentioned - at least in terms of this tour - is competence of the driver. I very much doubt that RailAdventure have crew competence via Harrow (why would they?), so to operate this way you'd need either three people in the cab (driver, route conductor, second competent person - which would be a risk assessment issue to say the least) or a driver who both signs the route and is HST competent (which is going to be, at best, hard to find). Either way, it's costing a whole lot more for a fill-in tour that is essentially there to get the set out of the way between arrival and departure of the main tour,
One thing that hasn't been mentioned - at least in terms of this tour - is competence of the driver. I very much doubt that RailAdventure have crew competence via Harrow (why would they?), so to operate this way you'd need either three people in the cab (driver, route conductor, second competent person - which would be a risk assessment issue to say the least) or a driver who both signs the route and is HST competent (which is going to be, at best, hard to find). Either way, it's costing a whole lot more for a fill-in tour that is essentially there to get the set out of the way between arrival and departure of the main tour.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned - at least in terms of this tour - is competence of the driver. I very much doubt that RailAdventure have crew competence via Harrow (why would they?), so to operate this way you'd need either three people in the cab (driver, route conductor, second competent person - which would be a risk assessment issue to say the least) or a driver who both signs the route and is HST competent (which is going to be, at best, hard to find). Either way, it's costing a whole lot more for a fill-in tour that is essentially there to get the set out of the way between arrival and departure of the main tour.
See attached. Plenty of space to path it over the Met using the scheduled departure times from Marylebone. I accept that I haven't looked to see how it works beyond Aylesbury. Met times taken from WTT345, which will remain current in March. It would be running on minimum headways by Chalfont on the northbound/Down, but so do plenty of other Chiltern services.
View attachment 152135
View attachment 152136
Zero, or practically zero?
https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/10s/190826uk.htm - 2019
https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/10s/180429lt.htm - 2018
https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/10s/170910lt.htm - 2017
https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/10s/150912lt.htm - 2015
https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/10s/140816lt.htm - 2014
https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/10s/130908lt.htm - 2013
https://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/10s/110522lt.htm - 2011
Accepted they all ran with trip fitted locomotives, but there have not been 'practically zero' railtours.
That's a mini-tour which is being sold separately.
Upon arrival of the main Master Cutler charter train into London, the train will be running north to Banbury to allow enthusiasts that bit extra HST mileage. The train will depart from London, running up the Chiltern Mainline to Banbury, where there will be a short break before returning to London Marylebone.
Main tour tickets are not valid on this service; you will need an extra ticket if you wish to ride on the mini tour.
The train will be formed of a rake of InterCity125 carriages from the 125 Group, with power cars provided by Rail Adventure. This is a rare opportunity to sample a High Speed Train from London Marylebone.
Timings
The following timings have been confirmed:
Outward Return London Marylebone 11:13 14:51Banbury 13:02 13:17
Fares
Standard Class (Adult) £30.00 First Class (Adult) £50.00
Nothing in my junk folderI got an email recently, which stated it was my ticket with my allocated seat on it. There was no ticket attachment or anything like that. I think it might have gone into my junk folder, so check there.
That is what I have received, and as it is from the operator, if they deem it a ticket then that’s what counts.I have received an email that says "This is your Travel Ticket and Reservation" and goes on to tell me my coach and seat number. I am taking that at face value. It doesn't look like any ticket I have seen before, but there are so many different sorts nowadays that I'm not unduly surprised by another sort.
I had a similar problem on the Class 321 Farewell Tour last year. They didn’t send tickets only booking confirmation. They let me on the train in the end without hassle…I have received an email that says "This is your Travel Ticket and Reservation" and goes on to tell me my coach and seat number. I am taking that at face value. It doesn't look like any ticket I have seen before, but there are so many different sorts nowadays that I'm not unduly surprised by another sort.
Did you get a reservation? As long as you have that, it's fine!Yep same, for everyone I know (including me) - no ticket just confirmation. Not sure what their plan is....