The Pope

[Xenophon PCDGS]

"Black smoke" from the chimney after the first vote on Tuesday, so no news yet as to who might be the next Pope.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Odd to see Tottenham MP David Lammey getting all wound up on Twitter earlier because he thought white smoke and black smoke referred to the skin colour of the new choice... What an idiot.

 

[Manchester77]

A new pope has been chosen! Due to announced who in the next 30 minutes

 

[High Dyke]

White smoke eh? Probably engine problems...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

76 years old....and from Argentina.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I see the Argentinians have claimed the Vatican City now too

 

[ainsworth74]

I see the Argentinians have claimed the Vatican City now too

Principle of self-determination, if the people of the Vatican wish to be Argentinian then that is their choice

I've only got his one speech to go on but I like him so far, on first impressions I much prefer him to the old one!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Pope is to resign - Any chance of putting a Moderate in the position?

I thought for a minute that you said a Moderator.....I wonder how many of the RailUK forum lads would have put their name forward...

ainsworth74 sounds to be a good candidate....with the number 74 in his name.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I see the Argentinians have claimed the Vatican City now too

Not a bad choice, as 45% of the world Catholic population lives in South America and they had recently been losing some of that number to the new Evangelical church movements that have recently established themselves on that continent.

I am glad that once again that no Italian Pope has been elected (third Papal election to do this) but I am sorry not to have seen the first black Pope to be elected.

I am not too unhappy about the age of this new Pope, as 10 years in the current world situation concerning the Catholic church with all what has recently occurred and in process, would give more work for him to do than in 100 years when nothing really of note affected its stability.

 

[Manchester77]

yeah i was hoping we'd see a black pope, theres always next time...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Pope Francis I seems a much more humble personage than the previous incumbent.

 

[HawkeyeTheNoo]

When I saw him I immediately thought I wonder where Jim Bowen had got to! Good luck to him, not an easy job!

 

[507 001]

When I saw him I immediately thought I wonder where Jim Bowen had got to! Good luck to him, not an easy job!

I wonder if having put on the papal robes he said to the other Cardinals, "and heres what you could have won!"?

 

[Welshman]

Given the short time between the white smoke and the new pope appearing on the balcony, do they keep a stock of white papal robes, cassocks, etc, of varying sizes at the ready, or have they got remarkably quick-working tailors in Vatican City?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Tailors on standby apparently, I'd assume alongside a plethora of other people for varying roles too.

 

[Welshman]

That was even quicker than the aforementioned tailors!
Thank you.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Further to what I said, I believe there are three basic sizes of small, medium and large, and it's at the elected's discretion what size is used and how it's cut - for example some gent on the BBC yesterday said Benedict XVI had his very short at the front until he realised just how odd it looked!

 

[Death]

"Black smoke" from the chimney after the first vote on Tuesday, so no news yet as to who might be the next Pope.

White smoke eh? Probably engine problems...

Off topic...But hope no-one minds me sharing a little gem of enlightenment that I saw on Facebook earlier.

• When Black smoke rises, it means a new Pope has not yet been elected.
• When White smoke rises, it means a new Pope has finally been chosen.
• And when Green smoke rises, it means that the Vatican have chosen a big bag of Doritos to be the new Pope, and evermore shall the Catholic Church revel in the joys of Jolt Cola, Beer, and random trips for munchies at 03:37 every morning...

No offence whatsoever intended toward any Catholics on the forum, of course.

Odd to see Tottenham MP David Lammey getting all wound up on Twitter earlier because he thought white smoke and black smoke referred to the skin colour of the new choice... What an idiot.

Hmm...Let's quickly check off the facts using Wikipedia:

• The Papacy has been around - In one form or another - Since around about 33CE, which is about 1,980 years* if my maths is correct.
  * - However; By my personal standards, this is a very short period of time.
• Various forms of racial equality in the World - Such as the End of Apartheid - Are comparatively modern in nature. Apartheid only ended in the 1980s (~25 years ago) and even to this day there are many instances in where people may be openly barred or subliminally prevented from assuming certain positions due to the colour of their skin.
• Accordingly - As would have been standard practice of the time (No matter how much I might disagree with it, it's still an understood fact) - It's extremely unlikely that a non-Caucasian would have been allowed to hold a position of order anywhere within the Vatican before at least 1970CE (At a liberal guess) so "Black" and "White" smoke could not possibly have indicated the ethnic background of the appointed Pontiff.
• ...And even if that were the case; The ethnic background of the Pope is completely irrelevant to his role as the leader of the Catholic Church, and therefore having coloured "smokes" to indicate this would be the greatest exercise in pointlessness since the Disciples tried to reform the people of Sodom!
  I should know, I was there. Never had to shovel so much flippin' salt around in any of my lives! hock:
  (Genesis KJV 19:17. Also calls Canterbury West at 19:43, Ashford Intl. at 20:01, and Roma Centrale at 00:26 :razz: )

...So for the sake of common sense in Tottenham: Give Mr. Lammey a copy of "Logic for Dummies"...FAST!!! hock:

White smoke eh? Probably engine problems...

Is that where they keep the Worlds last remaining Class 1?

...'Tis why a Pendolino is the only way to go!
(Until ye find thyself standing at Crewe and see that ye are route set for the down Chester... :razz: )

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Pope Francis most certainly made his personal vision, based on the views that he espouses, that the church should be...
"Of the poor, for the poor"

That statement certainly reveals a desire to "go back to the basics", after the recent matters of contention that have so afflicted it. How he will persuade that part of the Vatican establishment that needs to change their views to guide through these principles is a major task that he will face.

 

[Death]

Pope Francis most certainly made his personal vision, based on the views that he espouses, that the church should be...
"Of the poor, for the poor"

That statement certainly reveals a desire to "go back to the basics", after the recent matters of contention that have so afflicted it. How he will persuade that part of the Vatican establishment that needs to change their views to guide through these principles is a major task that he will face.

He certainly faces one heck of an uphill struggle bringing people around to seeing things from his point of view, mind. Last time I checked, Catholicism was one of the richest (And most flamboyantly so) of all of the Worlds major religions.

Trying to persuade all of the Bishops and Deacons in the Catholic world that they should eBay all of the ornaments in their churches and give the proceeds to the poor is not going to go down too well... hock:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

He certainly faces one heck of an uphill struggle bringing people around to seeing things from his point of view, mind. Last time I checked, Catholicism was one of the richest (And most flamboyantly so) of all of the Worlds major religions.

Would his personal views on his vision for the church have been known when the Conclave of Cardinals were in session to elect their next Pope ?

 

[Death]

Would his personal views on his vision for the church have been known when the Conclave of Cardinals were in session to elect their next Pope?

I'm not entirely sure, but I (Speaking as a non-Christian, mind) don't think there'd be any right for the Conclave to know what may or may not be in the mind of the candidates for the position of Pope.
Even though we do like to have a bit of background on our own political candidates during elections, we do not (And I pray never will) require full disclosure of their thoughts, feelings, opinions on any subject, and their private family lives.

That said, the process of selecting a new Pope seems to be rather political in itself - At least from my perspective - And from discussions on the topic that I've had with a friend over the years (Who may not be a professional historian, but is very well read in that respect) I have the impression that this has been the case since at least the Middle Ages.

To cut to the quip; Isn't the rightful Pope supposed to be chosen and appointed by the Lord himself?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

That said, the process of selecting a new Pope seems to be rather political in itself - At least from my perspective - And from discussions on the topic that I've had with a friend over the years (Who may not be a professional historian, but is very well read in that respect) I have the impression that this has been the case since at least the Middle Ages.

A reading of the Middle Ages history of the Church reveals much political intrigue as states were involved in the power base that saw different factions involved for political ends.The Church was always a fulcrum for power struggles in those days, mainly as a result of Constantinople falling to the Muslim invaders and Christianity needing the Church to co-ordinate the defence of itself and the states in that region against further incursions of Islam. Remember that Spain had already succumbed by the invasion of the Moors from North Africa and remained under Muslim control for a long period of time, before they were driven out.

Look at the case of the Pope who resigned 600 years ago and see what was involved "behind the political scenes" in the events that led up to this.