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The pre-1977 Glasgow Subway

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Taunton

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I believe there were 60 old cars in all, half motors and half trailers for the 2-car sets, numbered 1 to 60 in an extremely random manner between the two types which probably reflected the sequence in which they were converted from cable haulage at electrification. That gave 30 trains, 15 for each circle. If only 8 on each circle were needed that would be almost 100% provision of spares.

I also seem to recall in more recent times that the trains were painted the same red on all sides, the old accounts of them being painted black, or not painted at all, on the offside, being something from the past. If you are going to paint, it doesn't really matter what colour is chosen. Of course, the transfers etc were not applied to the offside.

Trains were placed alternately on one track and then the other to equalise flange wear, being swung round appropriately by the hoist. This is shown in the video described above, with sections on YouTube
although I think a more atmospheric film is this one
 
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Journeyman

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I believe there were 60 old cars in all, half motors and half trailers for the 2-car sets, numbered 1 to 60 in an extremely random manner between the two types which probably reflected the sequence in which they were converted from cable haulage at electrification. That gave 30 trains, 15 for each circle. If only 8 on each circle were needed that would be almost 100% provision of spares.

The service was cut back quite a lot over the years, so the service that ran in the seventies was somewhat less frequent than earlier decades - I think the fleet was utilised quite intensively in the early years of electrification.

For a few months in the year electric trains were introduced (1935 or thereabouts?), one circle was electrically operated and the other cable operated.
 

Highlandspring

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Trains were placed alternately on one track and then the other to equalise flange wear, being swung round appropriately by the hoist.[/MEDIA]
Interestingly I had this in the back of my mind on a visit to Broomloan depot last year so I asked whether this was still something they worried about. The answer was that they don’t actively try to even out the use of the cars on the Inner and Outer circles because it’s reckoned that it all naturally works out to within ~5% over the course of each wheelset’s life.

The seminal work on the Subway is Circles Under The Clyde by John Wright and Ian Maclean; it’s definitely worth trying to track down a copy if you’re interested in the development and operation of the system.
 

Taunton

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The depot arrangements at modernisation went from one extreme to the other. The old system had just one building, cars could not get outside so every aspect of repair had to be done inside, and quite a bit of the floorspace must have been taken up by the pit for the hoist.

The new depot required several times the land take, it spreads extensively over the land of the former BR Govan goods branch, with multiple buildings, outside sidings, the ramps down into the running tunnels, and a test track over half a mile long.

Did anyone ever get a track diagram of the old depot. Were there just a few single stubs. I can't see how the whole fleet of 60 cars could possibly fit in the building, plus the pw loco and all the pw wagons (and the pw stores etc). All the latter also had to go cumbersomely up and down by the hoist when required. Presumably all the cars from at least one circle had to be able to be taken out if the pw train needed to be run. I recall that towards the end it was not unknown for one circle to be out of action.
 

Elwyn

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I recall that towards the end it was not unknown for one circle to be out of action.

Yes, that's right. In the early 70s I recall one line being out of action quite often and so you had to go "the long way round" on the other line. Sometimes the other one would come back on without any notice. It was a bit haphazard sometimes.
 

St Rollox

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Hadn't been on the "subway" for 30 years until last week.
Forgot how small it is.
Like something out the Wizard of Oz.
Sure i remembered glass roofs on some stations pre 1977.
Remember for years it didn't open at all on a Sunday.
Lack of passengers on half the route and staff wages.
Strangely never knew anybody that worked on the "Subway".
Then again the workforce must be tiny.
Bit like the trains.
 

d9009alycidon

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Came very close to working on the Subway back in 2000, they were looking for a Safety Officer and I had just been made redundant so I was applying for everything. I was one of a shortlist of two for the job, but the other guy's dad worked for Glasgow City Council so guess who go the job!
 

AM9

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Hadn't been on the "subway" for 30 years until last week.
Forgot how small it is.
Like something out the Wizard of Oz.
Sure i remembered glass roofs on some stations pre 1977.
Remember for years it didn't open at all on a Sunday.
Lack of passengers on half the route and staff wages.
Strangely never knew anybody that worked on the "Subway".
Then again the workforce must be tiny.
Bit like the trains.
The only time that I went on it was in the '80s with my son. At 15, he was over 6ft tall and we both thought it quite funny to see a tiny train that we could see over the roof of, pull in to the station which in itself was a miniature version of the old Angel or Euston (City branch) stations on the LU Northern lines. Sitting in the all-longitudonal seats meant that there was little room for standing passengers unless sitters feet were pulled well back.
 

St Rollox

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The two main passengers groups to use the Subway were the West End/Glasgow Uni types and of course football fans going to Ibrox.
At least three of the stations seem to be now and for the last few decades cater to Park and Ride car owners.
Can't think of any reason why a non car owner would use say West Street.
There's almost nothing there other than empty streets.
Even the few residents in the odd new flats built in Tradeston would be quicker walking to the city Centre in good weather.
Had the West End gone the way of the East End with major depopulation and urban development the Subway would have closed years ago.
 

St Rollox

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Came very close to working on the Subway back in 2000, they were looking for a Safety Officer and I had just been made redundant so I was applying for everything. I was one of a shortlist of two for the job, but the other guy's dad worked for Glasgow City Council so guess who go the job!

Amazed the powers that be openly advertised a job on the Subway.
Although a Safety Officer i take it is further up the employment tree than a ticket booth attendant.
There was something of an urban myth that the Subway workers were all failed bus conductors.
I'm sure there was something on here few years back that somebody (ex bus conductor) retired after 30/40 years service down the Subway.
It made the local press.
 

St Rollox

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Interestingly I had this in the back of my mind on a visit to Broomloan depot last year so I asked whether this was still something they worried about. The answer was that they don’t actively try to even out the use of the cars on the Inner and Outer circles because it’s reckoned that it all naturally works out to within ~5% over the course of each wheelset’s life.

The seminal work on the Subway is Circles Under The Clyde by John Wright and Ian Maclean; it’s definitely worth trying to track down a copy if you’re interested in the development and operation of the system.

Almost tempted to ask, are you a Glasgow City Councillor by any chance?
How do you get a tour of the Subway?
 

dubscottie

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I believe there were 60 old cars in all, half motors and half trailers for the 2-car sets, numbered 1 to 60 in an extremely random manner between the two types which probably reflected the sequence in which they were converted from cable haulage at electrification. That gave 30 trains, 15 for each circle. If only 8 on each circle were needed that would be almost 100% provision of spares.

I also seem to recall in more recent times that the trains were painted the same red on all sides, the old accounts of them being painted black, or not painted at all, on the offside, being something from the past. If you are going to paint, it doesn't really matter what colour is chosen. Of course, the transfers etc were not applied to the offside.

Trains were placed alternately on one track and then the other to equalise flange wear, being swung round appropriately by the hoist. This is shown in the video described above, with sections on YouTube
although I think a more atmospheric film is this one

The full version of "Glasgow Subway" is on the National Library of Scotland site. Its about 30 mins long. Very interesting! Will post a link later today (have it bookmarked on the work computer!)
 

hexagon789

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The full version of "Glasgow Subway" is on the National Library of Scotland site. Its about 30 mins long. Very interesting! Will post a link later today (have it bookmarked on the work computer!)

Is it the one made by the University in the mid-70s by any chance? If so I have it on DVD and it's a full hour.
 

robertclark125

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I've got the aforementioned book, Circles Under The Clyde. Well worth a read. It was published in 1996, so likely to be out of print. Made by Capital Transport.
 

Journeyman

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Is it the one made by the University in the mid-70s by any chance? If so I have it on DVD and it's a full hour.

Yup, if it's only 30mins online, it's an edited version. The full film is brilliant, it has a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff and is a superb snapshot of not just a railway, but a city, that has changed beyond all recognition. I'm glad people had the foresight to make it.

There's also some good footage on an SPT promotional film made in the late seventies, available in three parts on YouTube. It covers a lot of other interesting stuff, like the construction of the Argyll Line.
 

hexagon789

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Yup, if it's only 30mins online, it's an edited version. The full film is brilliant, it has a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff and is a superb snapshot of not just a railway, but a city, that has changed beyond all recognition. I'm glad people had the foresight to make it.

There's also some good footage on an SPT promotional film made in the late seventies, available in three parts on YouTube. It covers a lot of other interesting stuff, like the construction of the Argyll Line.

It is a excellent film, very much capturing the atmosphere pre-modernisation.
 
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