The value of a trade union

[rd749249]

Hi there,

I've passed all my tests, had my DMI and been offered a position as a trainee driver, subject to a successful medical. I won't mention which company at this time as forums were not mentioned in a good light at the DMI.

I've been reading a lot on these forums about ASLEF and in particular DOO. I was wondering what the feeling is around membership of a union these days. As someone who has taken an interest of the railway industry from the sidelines and have never been a union member myself, I was wondering if anyone could elaborate on the pros (and cons) of being a member of a trade union.

Also, how I would be treated if I chose not to join a trade union? I'm hoping I could be a little more informed on the choices in front of me.

Thanks

 

[Phil.]

There is no discussion. Join a recognised rail union of your choice. The pros outweigh the cons a hundred times.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

A free diary.

And a **** load of legal representation if something untoward happens, which it might, unfortunately.

It's unfortunately the situation now that if something 'bad' happens, even when following your employer's instructions regarding the safe operation of your train, the Crown Prosecution Service can get it all horribly wrong and prosecute, at which point your union will at least be able to provide counsel (and hopefully, as with MerseyRail, your TOC will join in).

 

[TheEdge]

ASLEF ASAP.

Simple.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Yep, saved my job.

And no I won't expand on that either publicly or privately. Just to say that it was one of, if not the darkest periods of my life that made me consider suicide.

 

[neilb62]

If you are going to be in the Driving line of promotion then please join ASLEF. I pray you'll never need them but if you do you'll get no better advice and representation. The Drivers job is unique and the other rail unions really aren't best placed to deal with the grade despite their best intentions.

 

[Robertj21a]

You have to make an important decision which is very personal to you alone. I will get shouted down by those who object to my *personal* view that you shouldn't be swayed by staunch supporters of Trade Unions but I do accept that there may be some risks if you don't join one of them. You've taken a job with a heavily unionised organisation where I *guess* non-Union guys may experience some problems from time to time.

 

[ComUtoR]

You have to make an important decision which is very personal to you alone. I will get shouted down by those who object to my *personal* view that you shouldn't be swayed by staunch supporters of Trade Unions

That is good advice.

but I do accept that there may be some risks if you don't join one of them. You've taken a job with a heavily unionised organisation where I *guess* non-Union guys may experience some problems from time to time.

You are protected under employment laws and many people do well without being in any of the recognised unions.

 

[BestWestern]

You have to make an important decision which is very personal to you alone. I will get shouted down by those who object to my *personal* view that you shouldn't be swayed by staunch supporters of Trade Unions but I do accept that there may be some risks if you don't join one of them. You've taken a job with a heavily unionised organisation where I *guess* non-Union guys may experience some problems from time to time.

Your post appears to imply that people only join Unions under duress from bullying shop steward types. Please be assured that is not the case; this is not 1975 any more and Union Reps do not stalk the corridors intimidating non-members. Most colleagues and Reps really have very little interest in whether Mr X or Mrs Y has joined, and indeed employers have so many harrassment and bullying rules (rightly so) now that anybody seen as applying undue pressure to others in such a way would probably find themselves out of a job.

The truth of that matter is that most will hear stories of what has happened to colleagues in the past, or will quickly form opinions of management, and join up at the first opportunity - entirely of their own free will.

 

[Matt Taylor]

That is good advice.



You are protected under employment laws and many people do well without being in any of the recognised unions.

Correct, but the current government is eroding those legal protections so I don't think it would be wise to rely on them in the years to come.

 

[The Ham]

I tend not to have much love for trade unions (especially those who strike semi regularly), however I can see that they have a role to play. Therefore, if it were relevant I would seriously consider joining one.

 

[6Gman]

If you are going to be in the Driving line of promotion then please join ASLEF. I pray you'll never need them but if you do you'll get no better advice and representation. The Drivers job is unique and the other rail unions really aren't best placed to deal with the grade despite their best intentions.

Like!

I'll qualify that by saying that I have very little time for the political posturing of the railway unions (even TSSA, of which I was a member from the week I started on the railway to the day I finished) BUT I cannot speak highly enough of the support my late father received from ASLEF toward the end of his career.

ASLEF is expensive (partly because it's a very small union by modern standards) but it is able to give extensive and specialised support when needed.

 

[yorkie]

I would recommend you join a union. It may be that you never need their services, but it's not a risk you can take and it will be good to have peace of mind.

 

[Aivilo]

Necessary evil albeit they only ever help if guaranteed a good result

 

[E&W Lucas]

Please join ASLEF at the first opportunity.
Livelyhood protection, legal representation (read up on the Merseyrail prosecution, if you're in any doubt as to your personal liability), representation specific to your new profession, by people who have first hand experience.

The Union also undertakes many of the functions of a HR dept in a normal organisation. Holiday rosters, basic link structures, etc.

There will be no pressure to join. You will not be targeted if you don't. Worry not about the politics - you'll find most drivers are totally disinterested, and you can opt out of the political fund.

Many of those saying otherwise above, aren't employed in the industry.

 

[flash]

Join a union - ASLEF out of preference, although that will depend on the membership choice of the other Drivers at your depot.

The value of joining a union will become apparent in your early days as a driver, there isn't many newly qualified drivers who haven't had an 'issue', when this happens there will be an experienced rep (who will be conversant in company policy) alongside you in meetings with management - do you want to have to learn company polices as well as rules?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Join a union.

Almost every piece of employment law is as a result of unions.

 

[Minilad]

ASLEF. No brainer

 

[notadriver]

my previous job (which I still do on a casual basis) wasn't and isn't unionised. My colleagues there are forced to work more hours than is legal and paid a pittance while being treated like poo by the manager. My main unionised job is the complete polar opposite.

 

[455driver]

Yep, saved my job.

And no I won't expand on that either publicly or privately. Just to say that it was one of, if not the darkest periods of my life that made me consider suicide.

It's a good job your workmates (not to be confused with the people you work with ) were there to give you a kick up the arse and keep you on the straight and narrow!

As for which union, it has to be ASLEF, okay they are a bit expensive but you can thank them for your wages, plus there is strength in numbers and you get what you pay for!

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I'm not a railwayman, but my father was for all his working life and was always a member of a union (from memory NUR and later TSSA). Without being condescending (I hope), in this day and age it's good to see railwaymen giving support to their union(s). They have a proud history in fighting for better conditions and rights in the Railway industry and long may that continue.
As has already been said...it's a no-brainer.

 

[G136GREYHOUND]

If you don't join ASLEF you are a fool. If you don't join a union you WILL get the sack if you have an incident , end of story

 

[83G/84D]

Just to be absolutely clear other unions are available, ASLEF is not the only driver's union. I'm not saying one is better than another but look at all options carefully before deciding.

Just ensure you do join up with one of them.

 

[notadriver]

Just to be absolutely clear other unions are available, ASLEF is not the only driver's union. I'm not saying one is better than another but look at all options carefully before deciding.



Just ensure you do join up with one of them.

Who do you suggest then ? Unite ? Lol!!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

You have a choice of two ASLEF or RMT, there's a third, but it's not officially recognised by many TOCs and that's ATCU.

 

[WCMLaddict]

Join a union as soon as you can. I mean it.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

It's a good job your workmates (not to be confused with the people you work with ) were there to give you a kick up the arse and keep you on the straight and narrow!

As for which union, it has to be ASLEF, okay they are a bit expensive but you can thank them for your wages, plus there is strength in numbers and you get what you pay for!

For which I'll be eternally grateful too.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Someone I know is a member with a union, not sure which one but he found it more helpful using a solicitor than the union in one incident he had which was non railway.

End of the day though, its up to you what you do.

 

[BestWestern]

You have a choice of two ASLEF or RMT, there's a third, but it's not officially recognised by many TOCs and that's ATCU.

ATCU are a waste of time. Not recognised by your employer (or even by the TUC), no bargaining power of any sort, minimal membership numbers (if any), a far inferior legal representation if you need it...

On a Driver's salary (which, as has already been mentioned, is directly thanks to Aslef), membership of Aslef is not at all expensive; it really isn't. And it's well worth it. Same goes for the RMT if they are the Union if choice.

 

[Agent_c]

You are protected under employment laws and many people do well without being in any of the recognised unions.

Given the difficulty in accessing an employment tribunal these days - not to mention the costs to see someone who actually knows employment law - good luck doing that on your own.