Ticket checks on Thameslink

[387star]

After experiencing ATO for the first time I'm even more amazed to witness a ticket check! Is this a regular thing now? Two officers on board

To clarify ATO is Automatic Train Operation where the train drives itself and the driver closes the train doors and presses a button to start the train.

 

[NSE]

The are staff whose job it is to check. They vary from service to service each day. Often working on intel or in tandem with BTP or other TOC’s and their revenue staff. From knowing some, they often get on a train and instantly catch someone and so then can be stuck with them if they’re difficult etc

 

[Bald Rick]

After experiencing ATO for the first time I'm even more amazed to witness a ticket check! Is this a regular thing now? Two officers on board

Presume you’ve not travelled through the Thameslink core for a while - there‘s now a better than even chance of catching in a train in ATO.

 

[londonbridge]

Not had a ticket check on Thameslink in years, certainly not since pandemic and can’t even remember one before it.

 

[21C101]

It is quite funny to watch the self righteous fury of people who have sat in first class for a journey in the core and got done. Dosen't happen very often though.

What is astonishing now is the amount of people who appear from Crossrail and get a train from Farringdon to City Thameslink in the morning peak.

 

[Richardr]

I've had a couple of checks recently, albeit travelling away from London in the morning. I rarely commute into London these days, so can't comment on seeing ticket checks in that direction, so whether the inspectors turn round and check a London bound train I can't say

 

[Timmyd]

It is quite funny to watch the self righteous fury of people who have sat in first class for a journey in the core and got done. Dosen't happen very often though.

What is astonishing now is the amount of people who appear from Crossrail and get a train from Farringdon to City Thameslink in the morning peak.

Daily user of the core and never see inspectors. I suspect a lot of people might get done having sat in the front first class of one that’s not declassified - for instance getting off a terminating train at Blackfriars and changing for City Thameslink (CTK) or Farringdon (ZFD)

To be fair the southern entrance of CTK is a reasonable distance from Farringdon

 

[MattyJames]

This might be a silly question but how do they do ticket checks it you're traveling on conctactless payment? E.g. St Pancras Thameslink - Elephant and Castle?

 

[NSE]

They have a little scanner to check you’ve touched in. TFL people have the same/similar for Oysters/bank cards. I have a heavy discount on my Oyster and if I’m on autopilot and forgot to show the associated card, they’ll ask for it. So it shows them on their scanner that I have the discount loaded.

You’re less likely to get checked through the core i’d imagine as stations are more commonly barriered and often too busy to work through quick enough.

 

[MattyJames]

They have a little scanner to check you’ve touched in. TFL people have the same/similar for Oysters/bank cards. I have a heavy discount on my Oyster and if I’m on autopilot and forgot to show the associated card, they’ll ask for it. So it shows them on their scanner that I have the discount loaded.

You’re less likely to get checked through the core i’d imagine as stations are more commonly barriered and often too busy to work through quick enough.

Thanks for clearing it up.

 

[plugwash]

This might be a silly question but how do they do ticket checks it you're traveling on conctactless payment? E.g. St Pancras Thameslink - Elephant and Castle?

As I understand it.

They scan your card, but all their system can tell in real time for contactless bank cards (oyster cards are a different matter) is whether the card is blocked. If you present a blocked card then they move on to the normal procedures for someone travelling without a valid ticket.

If you present a card that hasn't been touched in, then when the system matches up the touch data you will get hit with an incomplete journey charge. Do it too many times and your card will get blocked.

 

[uglymonkey]

I've seen them, but it's very few and far between, usually somewhere between Hitchin and Finsbury Park. Never seen in the core or underground bit. They is usually a gaggle of them for a couple of days then you never see any for months. Random. They sometimes do my station ( no barriers) in the mornings (3 or 4 people) ) . Then again nothing for months.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Thameslink were doing checks at Three Bridges this week.

 

[Bedpan]

Presume you’ve not travelled through the Thameslink core for a while - there‘s now a better than even chance of catching in a train in ATO.

Don't want to go off at too much of a tangent, but how would you know if the train you were on was being driven by a driver or ATO?

 

[Bald Rick]

Don't want to go off at too much of a tangent, but how would you know if the train you were on was being driven by a driver or ATO?

I’ve posted before on this, but 4 ways:

1) if you are waiting at a core station - the train will enter at speed and only start braking halfway along the platform. Or, if you are on a train and it enters the core, and you are stopped short of a station waiting for the platform to clear, you will accelerate at full pelt into the platform towards a red signal.

2) On the train, if you sit in first class* behind the driver, you will hear the ETCS ‘beep beep’ as each movement authority comes through from Three Bridges, if not in ATO / ETCS then you will hear the bings and bongs of the AWS.

3) At core stations, a train in ATO will open the doors immediately after stopping. Under conventional driving there will be a (roughly) two second wait while the driver confirms she/he confirms the train is platformed and then releases the doors.

4) On the train, in the core, the acceleration and braking is ‘full on’ under ATO.

*First class ticket required on some trains, but on others the front first class is declassified. Usually those thay terminate at Sutton, Sevenoaks, Orpington and Rainham (Southbound), and St Albans, Welwyn and Luton (northbound). But some Luton services do have first class later in the evening, so watch out!

 

[Ediswan]

I was checked last week between Farringdon and Stevenage. Probably before Finsbury Park. Didn't overhear any ticketing problems.

I was using keyGo, with a railcard. I was not asked for my railcard. The device used looked like a mobile phone.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I’ve posted before on this, but 4 ways:

1) if you are waiting at a core station - the train will enter at speed and only start braking halfway along the platform. Or, if you are on a train and it enters the core, and you are stopped short of a station waiting for the platform to clear, you will accelerate at full pelt into the platform towards a red signal.

2) On the train, if you sit in first class* behind the driver, you will hear the ETCS ‘beep beep’ as each movement authority comes through from Three Bridges, if not in ATO / ETCS then you will hear the bings and bongs of the AWS.

3) At core stations, a train in ATO will open the doors immediately after stopping. Under conventional driving there will be a (roughly) two second wait while the driver confirms she/he confirms the train is platformed and then releases the doors.

4) On the train, in the core, the acceleration and braking is ‘full on’ under ATO.

*First class ticket required on some trains, but on others the front first class is declassified. Usually those thay terminate at Sutton, Sevenoaks, Orpington and Rainham (Southbound), and St Albans, Welwyn and Luton (northbound). But some Luton services do have first class later in the evening, so watch out!

Indeed but its a Jeckyll &Hyde railway. In ATO its pure metro mode yet when a driver is in manual half the drivers wont use the closing up signals in the platforms and will only proceed when they have a clear run down to the end of the platform.

Anyhow ive had a few ticket checks this year on Brighton Line and been in FC and all those down front that shouldn't be there just plead "isn't this declassified" and politely get moved back not the Connex days when they waited till it had left E.Croydon and pounced with penalty fares. Given SE have ditched FC and the amount of trains it isnt even available on im surprised and hasn't been ditched as well.

 

[MrJeeves]

I was using keyGo, with a railcard. I was not asked for my railcard. The device used looked like a mobile phone.

As I understand it, they cannot easily check if your keyGo account has a railcard linked.

In reality, your railcard has already been checked when you add it to your account so, assuming noone else is using your card, there is no need for them to check.

 

[Facing Back]

I’ve posted before on this, but 4 ways:

1) if you are waiting at a core station - the train will enter at speed and only start braking halfway along the platform. Or, if you are on a train and it enters the core, and you are stopped short of a station waiting for the platform to clear, you will accelerate at full pelt into the platform towards a red signal.

2) On the train, if you sit in first class* behind the driver, you will hear the ETCS ‘beep beep’ as each movement authority comes through from Three Bridges, if not in ATO / ETCS then you will hear the bings and bongs of the AWS.

3) At core stations, a train in ATO will open the doors immediately after stopping. Under conventional driving there will be a (roughly) two second wait while the driver confirms she/he confirms the train is platformed and then releases the doors.

4) On the train, in the core, the acceleration and braking is ‘full on’ under ATO.

*First class ticket required on some trains, but on others the front first class is declassified. Usually those thay terminate at Sutton, Sevenoaks, Orpington and Rainham (Southbound), and St Albans, Welwyn and Luton (northbound). But some Luton services do have first class later in the evening, so watch out!

Thanks. What determines the decision on whether a particular train will be driven by a driver or run as ATO?

 

[Class2ldn]

If you're trained in it then its a requirement to run in ETCS, most people will use ATO as its less to do generally lol.
There's certains time when ATO isn't allowed to be used but has to always be in ETCS if you're trained.

 

[Facing Back]

If you're trained in it then its a requirement to run in ETCS, most people will use ATO as its less to do generally lol.
There's certains time when ATO isn't allowed to be used but has to always be in ETCS if you're trained.

Are there drivers who are not trained in ETCS driving through the core?

 

[Class2ldn]

Yes until they are trained up they are still driving the conventional way with just the signals and no in cab signaling

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I’ve posted before on this, but 4 ways:

1) if you are waiting at a core station - the train will enter at speed and only start braking halfway along the platform. Or, if you are on a train and it enters the core, and you are stopped short of a station waiting for the platform to clear, you will accelerate at full pelt into the platform towards a red signal.

2) On the train, if you sit in first class* behind the driver, you will hear the ETCS ‘beep beep’ as each movement authority comes through from Three Bridges, if not in ATO / ETCS then you will hear the bings and bongs of the AWS.

3) At core stations, a train in ATO will open the doors immediately after stopping. Under conventional driving there will be a (roughly) two second wait while the driver confirms she/he confirms the train is platformed and then releases the doors.

4) On the train, in the core, the acceleration and braking is ‘full on’ under ATO.

*First class ticket required on some trains, but on others the front first class is declassified. Usually those thay terminate at Sutton, Sevenoaks, Orpington and Rainham (Southbound), and St Albans, Welwyn and Luton (northbound). But some Luton services do have first class later in the evening, so watch out!

How do you know if 1st class has been declassified or not? Are there signs and announcements. Or do you just have to be "in the know"

 

[NSE]

It says on the PIS screen ‘This area can be used by Standard Class Passengers’. Plus on the platform screens it often says ‘First Class can be found at the front of the train’ (I.e. not the rear) or ‘Standard Class throughout’ or words to that nature. I can’t quite remember the exact wording on the Sutton Loop signs I see each day.

The split is the longer distance stuff still has 1st at the front and Metro doesn’t.

*Metro Routes*
Sutton Loop
Luton - Rainham
Sevenoaks - Blackfriars (Welwyn Garden City in the peaks)

*Mainline*
Bedford - Brighton
Bedford - Three Bridges
Cambridge - Brighton
Peterborough - Horsham
Bedford - East Grinstead (Peaks only)

As for the few extras that go something like Bedford to Elephant and Castle in the peak and the late night Sutton Loops through to Bedford, you’d have to double check (though I’m 99.9% certain the Sutton Loops stay declassified).

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

It says on the PIS screen ‘This area can be used by Standard Class Passengers’. Plus on the platform screens it often says ‘First Class can be found at the front of the train’ (I.e. not the rear) or ‘Standard Class throughout’ or words to that nature. I can’t quite remember the exact wording on the Sutton Loop signs I see each day.

The split is the longer distance stuff still has 1st at the front and Metro doesn’t.

*Metro Routes*
Sutton Loop
Luton - Rainham
Sevenoaks - Blackfriars (Welwyn Garden City in the peaks)

*Mainline*
Bedford - Brighton
Bedford - Three Bridges
Cambridge - Brighton
Peterborough - Horsham
Bedford - East Grinstead (Peaks only)

As for the few extras that go something like Bedford to Elephant and Castle in the peak and the late night Sutton Loops through to Bedford, you’d have to double check (though I’m 99.9% certain the Sutton Loops stay declassified).

Thanks for the information

 

[kacper]

I’ve never seen a “ThamesLink” inspector but i’ve seen “Great Northern” inspectors on both TL and GN trains past Stevenage (i am aware that they’re the same company)

 

[NSE]

I’ve never seen a “ThamesLink” inspector but i’ve seen “Great Northern” inspectors on both TL and GN trains past Stevenage (i am aware that they’re the same company)

I don’t know exactly how it’s split. But many roles are still split as per the original TOCs. Many roles are also allocated in geographic areas. So where TL and GN cross services on the ECML you may find all the venue protection is still branded as GN.

 

[Krokodil]

Do they act in uniform? I was in Munich the other week and the inspectors on the U-bahn do their checks in casual clothes to avoid people recognising them and leaving the train.

 

[MrJeeves]

Do they act in uniform? I was in Munich the other week and the inspectors on the U-bahn do their checks in casual clothes to avoid people recognising them and leaving the train.

Usually most GTR RPIs wear uniform (a black jacket with one of the brands on) in my experience, often wheeling a small suitcase behind them too.

 

[Silver Cobra]

Not had a ticket check on Thameslink in years, certainly not since pandemic and can’t even remember one before it.

I guess it must depend on when and where you travel. For the last three Sundays there has been a ticket check taking place on the 1245 Thameslink departure from Peterborough, and on all three occasions the inspector/RPI has been issuing someone with a penalty fare as I board at Biggleswade.