Ticket gates left open more?

[valenta]

Ticket barriers were introduced at my local station (Newcastle) a couple of years ago and since their introduction it seems to me that the gates are closed more and more sporadically. As I don't use any other mainline station regularly it would be interesting to know if others have noticed this in other areas of the country or if anyone knows a reason for this - I can only assume its due to insufficient staffing.

Thanks

 

[yorkie]

I think you mean "left open"? I've changed the thread title to clarify

It's probably due to insufficient staff numbers, as it does take a lot of staff to adequately man gatelines at major stations where passengers are likely to have complicated tickets which won't work the barriers.

It's considered to be too expensive or difficult to implement gates which can consistently and accurately accept all valid tickets, so a lot of manual intervention is required.

It's very rare that tickets I use operate the gateline at Leeds, for example. Even West Yorkshire DayRovers claim to be "not valid at this location"!

 

[dk1]

Gates at Norwich are almost always manned now from 05.00-23.00 which is excellent. A year or so back it was abysmal so top marks there. Today staff shortage at Liverpool St mean't gates at plats 8-10 where open. Not great bu at least most trains to/from here have on-board checks. Was a tad more difficult today due to large volumes heading to V in Chelmsford.

 

[Hadders]

I often find that ticket gates are useless at determining validity.

For example, a few days ago I travelled from Stevenage to Edinburgh using an Anytime Return ticket (costing £289 - before anyone comments it's a long story but I didn't pay for it). The ticket failed to operate the barriers at Stevenage.

The following day I travelled from Stevenage to Enfield Chase using a ticket from a different origin, starting short at Stevenage. The barrier opened for me with this ticket!

 

[47802]

I do find the gates a pain the arse, and it might be helpful if they actually accepted more tickets types than they currently do. I've noticed a few times on a 1 day Travelcard in London that sometimes its not accepted at both TFL and National Rail Network barriers although it seems to be more TFL.

Where I live Leeds seems to be always in operation, Bradford Interchange seems to be open on an evening.

 

[northwichcat]

I do find the gates a pain the arse, and it might be helpful if they actually accepted more tickets types than they currently do. I've noticed a few times on a 1 day Travelcard in London that sometimes its not accepted at both TFL and National Rail Network barriers although it seems to be more TFL.

The TfL barriers seem to reject them if you insert one in to a barrier too soon after it's been through another barrier. The same thing happens with Saveaway Tickets in Merseyside, if you're doing Lime Street-James Street you have to be manually let through one of the two stations.

 

[Merseysider]

Manchester Oxford Road is barriered but after about 8pm, and on Sundays, it's common to see them left open.

Same goes for Chester, and I've arrived at 7 in the morning to find no-one manning them.

 

[RPI]

Over the next few weeks you will see the hours of operation at most FGW stations extended, Plymouth, Bristol and Paddington have started already, lots of new jobs created in the process

 

[najaB]

I often find that ticket gates are useless at determining validity.

A good thing that's not their main purpose. Well, it is and it isn't. A ticket gate should open for a 'clearly' valid ticket (e.g. a single to that station), given that those will likely be 80% of what will be presented. The other 20% (e.g. railcard discounted tickets, BOJ's, etc) and it's reasonable for it to pass the responsibility to a human.

 

[EbbwJunction1]

The stations I travel through (Newport, Cardiff Central and Cathays (Cardiff) vary greatly.

Newport is staffed from about 7.00am to about 5.00pm most days during the week and on Saturdays. I think that it's rarely staffed on Sundays.

Cardiff Central is staffed from about 6.30am to about 8.00pm most days during the week. I think that staffing varies on Saturdays and Sundays depending on what's on in (say) the Millennium Stadium across the road. This also applies during the week if there's an event there on a weeknight evening.

Cathays used to be staffed from about 7.00am to (I think) about 4.00pm most days during the week; I can't comment on Saturdays and Sundays, but I think that it's rarely staffed on these days.

However, the situation here seems to have changed since the start of this year. Although there's often staff on the Cardiff-bound side (where the ticket office is), there are very rarely any staff on the Valleys-bound side at most times of the day. I find this very strange, as it's the main station for Cardiff University and the Civic centre of Cardiff; I wonder how many people travel through there without paying?

 

[yorkie]

...The other 20% (e.g. railcard discounted tickets, BOJ's, etc) and it's reasonable for it to pass the responsibility to a human.

... which is fine, if there are enough of them, and if you're saying the staff can reject tickets they think are invalid, then adequate training must be provided. Can you name one gateline where all the staff are adequately trained? I know how short the training is at many TOCs (because people have told me) and it's shockingly short. e.g. EMT at St Pancras, 1 week for everything, and ticketing is only a small part of that. They are not given the ability to check things in real time either. Concequently, people get incorrectly told their valid tickets are not valid :roll:

The ticket training (or, lack of, to be more accurate!) given to those earning over £30k manning LU gatelines is even more shocking.

 

[nottsnurse]

The gateline at Nottingham can best be described as "sporadic", but perhaps this is in part due to its utter pointlessness. If folk arriving want to avoid the gate line if it is manned they can just head towards the public right-of-way bridge halfway down the platforms. :roll:

 

[21C101]

... which is fine, if there are enough of them, and if you're saying the staff can reject tickets they think are invalid, then adequate training must be provided. Can you name one gateline where all the staff are adequately trained? I know how short the training is at many TOCs (because people have told me) and it's shockingly short. e.g. EMT at St Pancras, 1 week for everything, and ticketing is only a small part of that. They are not given the ability to check things in real time either. Concequently, people get incorrectly told their valid tickets are not valid :roll:

The ticket training (or, lack of, to be more accurate!) given to those earning over £30k manning LU gatelines is even more shocking.

I've never found them anything other than helpful and friendly provided you are polite to them. At least LT issue priv season tickets that work their gates and issue gate passes if you have an NatR season ticket to an LT staffed station (e.g. Farringdon)

None of the NatR residentials or status passes open barriers which is a pain all round.

 

[najaB]

... which is fine, if there are enough of them, and if you're saying the staff can reject tickets they think are invalid, then adequate training must be provided.

Well, they are there to allow people through when the ticket is valid, and deal with them appropriately when they aren't. So yes, they should be properly trained otherwise there isn't any point in them (or the gates) being there in the first place.

 

[yorkie]

Well, they are there to allow people through when the ticket is valid, and deal with them appropriately when they aren't. So yes, they should be properly trained otherwise there isn't any point in them (or the gates) being there in the first place.

Hmm.. I'm not so sure that's often the case?

I know at SWT, for example, they're not really given any ticket training and are basically told if they think the ticket is not valid, to refer them to an RPI... if there is one! If there isn't an RPI, they have to simply, err... let them exit anyway. It's a similar story at other TOCs.

 

[northernchris]

It's very rare that tickets I use operate the gateline at Leeds, for example. Even West Yorkshire DayRovers claim to be "not valid at this location"!

I used a West Yorkshire Day Rover (train only) in the barriers at Huddersfield yesterday which worked fine, but these are a different style to the Leeds ones which might make a difference?

I really don't like East Coast's policy towards revenue protection and I hope it is something the new operator is able to change. From my experience the gates at Kings Cross are usually left open and the ones at Wakefield are used sporadically although the last time I passed through they were in use but unmanned

 

[Kite159]

Is the gateline at Kings Cross (main platforms 0-8) ever closed?

The gates at Plymouth dislike both Ride Cornwall and Devon Ranger tickets. I've found that rovers very rarely are accepted by the gates

 

[CC 72100]

The gates at Plymouth dislike both Ride Cornwall and Devon Ranger tickets. I've found that rovers very rarely are accepted by the gates

About half and half in terms of acceptance with a Devon Ranger at Exeter (SD) - I don't mind the fact that they don't always go through first time; they're a good bunch on a the gateline there.

 

[maniacmartin]

To back up what yorkie has said, numerous London Overground staff that if the gateline doesn't accept it, then it isn't valid. I would have to disagree about London Underground training though. Ticketing on the underground is much simpler, so less training is needed than on National Rail gatelines, and its only rare obscure tickets that seem to cause problems. The tube salary is quite generous compared to what I imagine agency staff increasingly used to man NR gatelines get though, even weighting for London.

There is no willpower from TOCs to man all of these gates. Some were installed only because the DfT wanted them, and for some InterCity services where you can get checked by the guard anyway, they have little point. (Assuming the guard does check)

 

[jon0844]

Gates at Norwich are almost always manned now from 05.00-23.00 which is excellent. A year or so back it was abysmal so top marks there. Today staff shortage at Liverpool St mean't gates at plats 8-10 where open. Not great bu at least most trains to/from here have on-board checks. Was a tad more difficult today due to large volumes heading to V in Chelmsford.

Having been to V very often, I think they're quite keen to just chuck people on the next train - and they then do a very thorough ticket check (with police and dogs) at Chelmsford.

Edit: Just realised, platforms 8-10 wouldn't be any good for Chelmsford trains would it?!

 

[Mugby]

My observations here in Derby is that the gates are usually manned until 8pm each evening.

The gates are two sets, one to enter and one to exit, one regular problem is that they are often controlled by just one person who sometimes wanders off or gets involved in other things, such as sorting out someone who is trying to exit whilst a queue is building up on the entrance side and vital seconds are ticking away towards the departure of your train.

One strange feature about Derby is that when Derby County FC are playing at home there can be literally thousands of fans using the footbridge at a thoroughfare to get to the ground in Pride Park. It seems that the gates are usually opened up on such occasions, I'm not sure if fans should show a valid ticket or have a permit but it would be an impossibility to attempt any sort of control on match days so it's a free for all.

 

[Qwerty133]

My observations here in Derby is that the gates are usually manned until 8pm each evening.

The gates are two sets, one to enter and one to exit, one regular problem is that they are often controlled by just one person who sometimes wanders off or gets involved in other things, such as sorting out someone who is trying to exit whilst a queue is building up on the entrance side and vital seconds are ticking away towards the departure of your train.

One strange feature about Derby is that when Derby County FC are playing at home there can be literally thousands of fans using the footbridge at a thoroughfare to get to the ground in Pride Park. It seems that the gates are usually opened up on such occasions, I'm not sure if fans should show a valid ticket or have a permit but it would be an impossibility to attempt any sort of control on match days so it's a free for all.

Gates are meant to be closed on match days, with only fans with tickets (or gate passes) allowed to cross, this has been the case since March and big posters were displayed at the gate line advising of this.
It is rare that they've been single manned when I've been at Derby, and when they have one side has been left open, but even then it's normally for short periods when one of the staff has gone for a smoke, or to make coffee (or buy it from costa if certain staff are on duty)