Ticket Office closures no longer going ahead

[LNW-GW Joint]

BBC just used words to that effect. A bit like a minister supporting a government position on the breakfast news, only to have that position change as soon as they leave the studio.

But the quote is that DfT approved the TOC proposals before they were announced, not that they were asked to produce them by DfT in the first place.
So it still looks like being considered the TOCs' fault, not the DfT's.

 

[gabrielhj07]

The chap in my local ticket office was noticeably cheerier this morning.

 

[AdamWW]

Ibis hotels have got rid of receptions and have people standing round with iPhones doing something remarkably like being reception staff, but because they're just standing around queueing for them gets right in the way. It doesn't work at all well.

Quite - and theres less assurance that before you get to the end of the queue the person won't have had to leave to do some other part of their duties.

 

[Edsmith]

yes, disgusting that a government should actually listen to other people's viewpoints on a matter, and change their policy accordingly. In future, lets all government always presses on regardless

Exactly they're damned whatever they do and no doubt this is going to come up again in the future.

 

[Tomp94]

Hopefully far too late to win brownie points from voters. Shown their true colours.

Unfortunately this isn't the case Imo. The regime is playing to their voter base, (ie the daily mail types) who absolutely dispise the unions, and would quite happily see thousands redundant in order to score political points against unions

 

[DunsBus]

If Berwick-upon-Tweed ticket office had closed, passengers would have been expected to travel 60 miles in either direction to access the full range of LNER products. And the Passenger Assistance service service there would have been at risk.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Unfortunately, the damage has already been done in some places.

At one of my local stations we had a lady in the booking office that was everything you could ever want. Courteous, helpful, knowledgable and adaptable. If people came in during busy periods with complex queries she would take their phone number and call them at home. She knew all the rovers and splits that could save ££s, happy to excess tickets, book seat reservations, upgrades, sleeper berths etc, and when things went wrong she would always be ready to liaise with control, organise taxis, co-ordinate the buses and offer help and advice.

Sadly, the uncertainty of her position caused by the outrageous proposals has forced her to move on to another job. I drove past the station one day last week and the ticket office was in darkness with a hand written closure sign.

It’s an absolute disgrace.

 

[notverydeep]

Unfortunately this isn't the case Imo. The regime is playing to their voter base, (ie the daily mail types) who absolutely dispise the unions, and would quite happily see thousands redundant in order to score political points against unions

They are a bit stuck with this one however. Many of those same core Conservative voters are over 75 and have turned to trains as they lose the confidence to drive, especially significant distances, in the dark or in wet weather. This group especially was very unhappy with the proposals as they value ticket offices as an identifiable location for assistance, information and reassurance, hence the retreat (and the shameless transfer of blame to the TOCs)...

 

[Jamesrob637]

At least this will thwart strikes a little: it's been one of the reasons behind them since summer '22.

 

[Killingworth]

They are a bit stuck with this one however. Many of those same core Conservative voters are over 75 and have turned to trains as they lose the confidence to drive, especially significant distances, in the dark or in wet weather. This group especially was very unhappy with the proposals as they value ticket offices as an identifiable location for assistance, information and reassurance, hence the retreat (and the shameless transfer of blame to the TOCs)...

I very much doubt that possible ticket office closures would make a significant difference in any constituency in the forthcoming general election, certainly not to the likely final outcome.

 

[RPI]

So reduced opening times could well be a part of this mad plan to make everyone multi - functional station hosts.

To be fair, multi skilled station grades is a good idea, its been in place at most GWR stations (former wessex ones in the west) for a while and works well, grades that can cover gates/platform/booking office.

 

[1D54]

At least this will thwart strikes a little: it's been one of the reasons behind them since summer '22.

Anyone expecting easier travel plans because of the announcement today will be very disappointed. It'll make no difference whatsoever.

 

[WatcherZero]

Wasn't Avanti's proposal largely based around the fact they have tablet based TIS - so the only change is the loss of the physical ticket office and reduced hours?

Interestingly Transport Focus response is they didnt have much of an issue with Avanti proposals but were opposing the industry change in general.

Transport Focus acknowledges that AWC has made improvements to its original proposal. Your specific station proposals meet many of the criteria set by Transport Focus around access to products and services. However, we still have a number of industry-wide generic issues which give continued cause for concern. These are specific to all operators and, while we are willing to continue engaging with the industry on these, they have not yet been resolved., As a result we must object to proposals at all AWC stations.

Specifically they say only two of the national concerns were applicable to the AWC proposals.

* Transport Focus wanted a national 3/5 off/peak minute queue target for TVM's.
* That there would no longer be a statutory consultation requirement after a ticket offices closure.

 

[Taunton]

The annoying thing from my point of view is that if these proposals had actually been sensible (e.g. not closing booking offices at major London termini) they'd probably have got through and genuinely saved some money without any compulsory redundancies. Northern's proposals seemed borderline sensible, but others like Avanti's closure of everything were just nonsensical, and no thought was given to moving booking offices between TOCs.

You are correct. We can all see both, London suburban stations where hardly anyone is ever at the ticket window, and major stations with such a constant queue, sometimes to the extent of people missing their trains. I don't know where the "one size fits all" approach came from, I doubt it was a government minister who thought it up.

 

[endicomark69@g]

Good news - for a change.

Although reality quickly dealt with any pleasure at this climb down as my attempt to buy a ticket this morning at Earlsfield was met with.......a closed ticket office and open barriers. As seems to be usual now.

 

[notverydeep]

I very much doubt that possible ticket office closures would make a significant difference in any constituency in the forthcoming general election, certainly not to the likely final outcome.

Yes I agree, but suspect that they may be (at least partly) responding more to activist concerns than to a specific fear about votes in any particular constituency. I am guessing that this age group is strongly represented among their party membership...

 

[jfollows]

Not sure what they'll come up with instead though. "We've agreed to withdraw this, but to fund its retention we'll need to increase fares instead"?

The annoying thing from my point of view is that if these proposals had actually been sensible (e.g. not closing booking offices at major London termini) they'd probably have got through and genuinely saved some money without any compulsory redundancies. Northern's proposals seemed borderline sensible, but others like Avanti's closure of everything were just nonsensical, and no thought was given to moving booking offices between TOCs.

I agree.
Two things occur to me:

1. Well done to Transport Focus and the London equivalent for refusing to be party to this. Pass the buck back to the politicians for a politically-inspired process and let them take the blame. They didn't dare to implement the mass closure process without this fig leaf.
2. I feel sorry for all the people effectively told they're not valued by their employers and can be dispensed with, the ramifications of this will last a long time. Their employers are also mightily pissed off at having been forced into this position by the government.

I am glad that I will be able to continue buying tickets from Wilmslow station, which is a quick, convenient, pleasant and efficient process from my perspective.

EDIT Oh, and thirdly, "Rail Delivery Group" is very much an inappropriate title for the source of these proposals.

 

[43066]

The annoying thing from my point of view is that if these proposals had actually been sensible (e.g. not closing booking offices at major London termini) they'd probably have got through and genuinely saved some money without any compulsory redundancies. Northern's proposals seemed borderline sensible, but others like Avanti's closure of everything were just nonsensical, and no thought was given to moving booking offices between TOCs.

Agreed. Sensible reforms in this area are overdue, and could so easily have been tabled. This mess was anything but, and I’m pleased common sense has prevailed.

Nah I don't think it's a Machiavellian as that. I just think they were stupid and thought that they'd be able to get away with ramming something through which would get them a few negative headlines but wouldn't really result in that much actual opposition. I actually wonder if they were getting high off their own supply (as it were). The DfT/Treasury line appears to be "no-one travels by train anymore" so did that lead to them thinking "therefore very few people will object to our proposals and there won't be much of a stink raised". When what is actually happening is that people aren't buying as many expensive Anytime tickets or Season tickets, and the South East commuter numbers are still down but overall passenger numbers have bounced back quite strongly.

Up until a few months ago I would have agreed with @bramling ‘s stance. I now increasingly share your view that there isn’t an overall coherent strategy here, because that would imply at least a basic level of competence on behalf of the government, whereas it’s increasingly clear they’re just pivoting in the wind.

 

[Haywain]

That's what is happening anyway. If the staff leave and aren't replaced, they don't open.

Well, staff haven't been replaced because there have been closure proposals in the offing for the last couple of years or more. Maybe now there will be an opportunity to do some recruitment.

 

[James H]

- It's crazy that the proposals were so fragmented with no regard to a consistent set of expectations about what passengers would find in terms of ticketing and assistance at railway stations across the network

- Done right, with some judicious use of technology, the opportunity was there to actually make it easier for people to get face-to-face ticketing assistance from a human (via video link) at more locations (and during longer hours) than is the case today

 

[dk1]

At least this will thwart strikes a little: it's been one of the reasons behind them since summer '22.

I can’t see that. Traincrews are still in dispute over pay & any attempt to attack working conditions/agreements. That’s what causes the most disruption.

 

[Trainbike46]

Good news that the government has scrapped this terrible plan

I wouldn't have objected to ticket office closure proposals that were sensible, and took into account things like:
- Ensuring any tickets that are currently only available at ticket offices become available at TVMs and online (I recognise some TOCs have made good progress on this)
- Close ticket offices that are relatively little used, rather than busy ones that are popular
- Put mitigations in place, such as allowing people to buy on board in more places
- Consider alternative employment for staff (multi-skilled station grade, operational, moving to other ticket offices, etc., depending on the individual staff members)

As none of this was done as part of a sensible strategy, it is good that the plan was dropped

 

[yorkie]

Good news that the government has scrapped this terrible plan

I wouldn't have objected to ticket office closure proposals that were sensible, and took into account things like:
- Ensuring any tickets that are currently only available at ticket offices become available at TVMs and online (I recognise some TOCs have made good progress on this)
- Close ticket offices that are relatively little used, rather than busy ones that are popular
- Put mitigations in place, such as allowing people to buy on board in more places
- Consider alternative employment for staff (multi-skilled station grade, operational, moving to other ticket offices, etc., depending on the individual staff members)

As none of this was done as part of a sensible strategy, it is good that the plan was dropped

I agree; the Government has acted in a manner that was clueless and they didn't go about doing it in a way that was remotely sensible. Almost anyone on this forum could have told them the strategy had all sorts of flaws.

If Berwick-upon-Tweed ticket office had closed, passengers would have been expected to travel 60 miles in either direction to access the full range of LNER products.

Don't forget that if there is no facility to obtain your desired ticket at the origin station, at the time of travel, then you are entitled to board the train and buy at the next opportunity (i.e. on the train, or at an interchange - if applicable - or at the destination), if such an opportunity exists. If there is no facility at any point in the journey, the fare goes uncollected.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

No doubt a ploy by the regime to show they "compromise", and that this PR stunt was planned this way from the very start!

Agreed
In a way they have already saved themselves quite a bit of money since making the proposals, all those (I should imagine) hundreds or even thousands of Staff who decided to resign or leave and get other jobs of their own volition, thinking that their current job won't exist within 6 - 9 Months anyway.
Then, surprise of surprises, the plan is scrapped but you can bet your bottom dollar that there won't be a restart of the Recruitment Program to replace who they lost. It'll be a case of "You'll have to make do with who you have now".
So I think you will still see large stations with a supposed 0600 - 2100 staffing being forced to Shut at 1300 because of lack of back shift staff.
People who resign or leave of their own free will don't make headline news. Mass Redundancies on the other hand....

 

[MikeWM]

The opening hours of Ely's ticket office have certainly gone backwards over the past year. It is now closed more often than not when it is supposed to be open, at least at the times I pass through. I've pretty much given up on buying Anglia Plus tickets entirely as a result.

So I agree that this is good news, but (some) ticket offices have been severely compromised anyway and probably won't recover to where they were before.

 

[DaventryRabbit]

Unfortunately, the damage has already been done in some places.

At one of my local stations we had a lady in the booking office that was everything you could ever want. Courteous, helpful, knowledgable and adaptable. If people came in during busy periods with complex queries she would take their phone number and call them at home. She knew all the rovers and splits that could save ££s, happy to excess tickets, book seat reservations, upgrades, sleeper berths etc, and when things went wrong she would always be ready to liaise with control, organise taxis, co-ordinate the buses and offer help and advice.

Sadly, the uncertainty of her position caused by the outrageous proposals has forced her to move on to another job. I drove past the station one day last week and the ticket office was in darkness with a hand written closure sign.

It’s an absolute disgrace.

Exactly
See my Post #84...

 

[A0wen]

Some good news at last. This stupid government and its obsession to cut back or save money. Power to the people.

So the government should just spend money it doesn't have on things which the vast majority of people don't use ?

Over 80% of train tickets *aren't* bought from the ticket office now - at what point would you say a ticket office is no longer required ?

 

[Busaholic]

The opening hours of Ely's ticket office have certainly gone backwards over the past year. It is now closed more often than not when it is supposed to be open, at least at the times I pass through. I've pretty much given up on buying Anglia Plus tickets entirely as a result.

So I agree that this is good news, but (some) ticket offices have been severely compromised anyway and probably won't recover to where they were before.

So, death by stealth. Will we get 'Parliamentary Ticket Offices' only open every fourth Saturday between 10 and 11 a.m.?

 

[SteveM70]

I presume that tomorrow Mark Harper will be touring the news studios saying these were never specific proposals, but merely examples of things that could be done?

 

[thelongestroad]

https://twitter.com/HuwMerriman/status/1719349737378230669

Rt Hon getting a rightfully thrashing on social media replies.