Ticket types likely to die off soon

py_megapixel

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What ticket types are likely to cease to exist over the next few years?

I do wonder if OLR Northern might abolish the Duo fares that Arriva introduced. Also I wonder about the future of PlusBus given the amount that it relies on cooperation of bus companies.

I also think that credit-card sized tickets are likely to go very soon, given that there seems to be an enormous push towards electronic tickets.

Any other thoughts?
 
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JonathanH

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I don't like it, but I wouldn't be surprised were non-Anytime walk-up fares withdrawn at some point.
As happened in London with the extension of PAYG to National Rail services in 2010. It was this which enabled PAYG to be advertised as always offering the cheapest fare.
 

superjohn

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Paper travelcards (inboundary at least) can’t be with us much longer. Even the outboundary version has been rendered somewhat redundant of late. For all but the most extreme all day bashing that covers all six zones PAYG is always better value.
 

JonathanH

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Paper travelcards (inboundary at least) can’t be with us much longer. Even the outboundary version has been rendered somewhat redundant of late. For all but the most extreme all day bashing that covers all six zones PAYG is always better value.
For people travelling on their own yes but it gets complicated with children, holders of Network Railcards etc.
 

Hadders

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Paper travelcards (inboundary at least) can’t be with us much longer. Even the outboundary version has been rendered somewhat redundant of late. For all but the most extreme all day bashing that covers all six zones PAYG is always better value.
This is not always the case.

A railcard discounted day return from Stevenage to Kings Cross at the weekend is £8.10
A railcard discounted day travelcard at the weekend is £12.20

An Off Peak day return from Northampton to Euston is £34.00
An Off Peak Day Travelcard is £38.60
 

JonathanH

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And think of the backlash as rail fares increase by 50%....
While I don't want the Network Railcard to be binned, it is one of those issues that would cause a headline in the Evening Standard and then simply be forgotten as 'something which was great while it lasted'.

I'm not really sure how the poster up thread wrote:

Even the outboundary version has been rendered somewhat redundant of late.
Is that just a comment about the inability of people to make leisure journeys or a view that most people who buy an outboundary travelcard only make two journeys in Zone 1?
 

Ianno87

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I hate to say it, and I certainly don't want it to happen, but Rovers and Rangers.... (given they are a niche income and most operators seem indifferent to them at best)
 

Hadders

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While I don't want the Network Railcard to be binned, it is one of those issues that would cause a headline in the Evening Standard and then simply be forgotten as 'something which was great while it lasted'.
It's not really an Evening Standard thing as the Network Railcard isn't really any use in London itself due to the £13 minimum fare. It's useful at places at the extremes of the area e.g. Reading, Northampton, Huntingdon where a day travelcard is pretty expensive for a day trip, e.g £38 from Northampton iirc. These sort of areas are marginal constituencies and MPs would not appreciate leisure fare increases of 50%
 

Ianno87

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I'm surprised they have been retained as long as they have, to be honest.
Locally to me, the Anglia Plus lost alot of its appeal with its price hike last year, so its value compares poorly to just buying a Day Return from one side of the area to the other.
 

JonathanH

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I hate to say it, and I certainly don't want it to happen, but Rovers and Rangers.... (given they are a niche income and most operators seem indifferent to them at best)
If these go, then why would things like Travelcard (or London daily capping be retained). By definition, London daily capping reduces revenue for the operators. If it didn't exist people would have to be watchful of their journeys but it wouldn't make them less likely to travel up to the capping level.

The same applies in all the conurbations which currently have such day tickets.
 

Ianno87

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If these go, then why would things like Travelcard (or London daily capping be retained). By definition, London daily capping reduces revenue for the operators. If it didn't exist people would have to be watchful of their journeys but it wouldn't make them less likely to travel up to the capping level.

The same applies in all the conurbations which currently have such day tickets.
Travelcards are sold in much higher quantities than Rovers and Rangers (which generally - with a few exceptions- hold little appeal beyond the enthusiast market)
 

JonathanH

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It's useful at places at the extremes of the area e.g. Reading, Northampton, Huntingdon where a day travelcard is pretty expensive for a day trip, e.g £38 from Northampton iirc.
It would be really interesting to know whether more travelcards from Reading or Northampton are bought with or without a Network Railcard by people in the relevant bracket. I suspect more are bought without.

That would put Network Railcard in the 'things only people who understand rail fares' bracket that upsets the normal passenger who thinks their train fare is too high.
 

EC73LDN

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I don't understand why a NSE can't be put on an Oyster account. Maybe "new Oyster" will support it.
I think the main problem is that accompanying adults and children also receive the discount on a paper ticket bought with a Network Railcard - I'm not sure there's an easy way around this even with the new Oyster backend processing system.
 

JonathanH

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Travelcards are sold in much higher quantities than Rovers and Rangers (which generally - with a few exceptions- hold little appeal beyond the enthusiast market)
Yes, of course they are but why is it appropriate to offer a Travelcard for unlimited travel in London where there is pressure on capacity and not in more rural areas where there is a desire to promote travel (if there is)? The two are the same.
 

superjohn

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Is that just a comment about the inability of people to make leisure journeys or a view that most people who buy an outboundary travelcard only make two journeys in Zone 1?
The latter. I suspect the vast majority of outboundary travelcard usage is within zones 1-2, for ’normals’ at least.
Locally to me, the Anglia Plus lost alot of its appeal with its price hike last year, so its value compares poorly to just buying a Day Return from one side of the area to the other.
I agree, it is now only really worth it if you get the three day version and use it to the max for all three days. The Wherry and Bittern line versions are still good value but only if you live in the area.
 

Ianno87

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Yes, of course they are but why is it appropriate to offer a Travelcard for unlimited travel in London where there is pressure on capacity and not in more rural areas where there is a desire to promote travel (if there is)? The two are the same.
Rural travel can be promoted in other ways, e.g discounts on single/returns, etc. that better suit the vast majority of potential use. Few 'normal' folk need a ticket to spend a day riding up and down multiple branch lines - most just want to ride to the seaside / honeypot, spend a couple of hours, and ride back again.
 

JonathanH

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Rural travel can be promoted in other ways, e.g discounts on single/returns, etc. that better suit the vast majority of potential use. Few 'normal' folk need a ticket to spend a day riding up and down multiple branch lines - most just want to ride to the seaside / honeypot, spend a couple of hours, and ride back again.
Yes, I agree. I think the same applies to travel in the conurbations, particularly London.

On the matter of Anglia Plus, I guess that Greater Anglia have an interesting set of 'control' information considering the amount of off-peak travel on their Essex routes where no such ranger applies and in Norfork / Suffolk where there is Anglia Plus.
 

Ianno87

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Yes, I agree. I think the same applies to travel in the conurbations, particularly London.

On the matter of Anglia Plus, I guess that Greater Anglia have an interesting set of 'control' information considering the amount of off-peak travel on their Essex routes where no such ranger applies and in Norfork / Suffolk where there is Anglia Plus.
Although the Essex branches arguably have more of an effect of London demand on their usage than the Suffolk/Norfolk ones.
 

Bletchleyite

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Rural travel can be promoted in other ways, e.g discounts on single/returns, etc. that better suit the vast majority of potential use. Few 'normal' folk need a ticket to spend a day riding up and down multiple branch lines - most just want to ride to the seaside / honeypot, spend a couple of hours, and ride back again.
It's yet another area where single-fare pricing helps. If it does, travelling around on non-linear routes buying singles as you go isn't all that expensive. One of the many, many benefits of that approach.
 

swt_passenger

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Because of the £13 minimum fare on weekdays.
And there’s also all the random extra people, both adults and children, that you can take with you using the same card. AIUI no railcards that include more than one individual can be loaded on Oyster.
 

Bevan Price

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Travelcards are sold in much higher quantities than Rovers and Rangers (which generally - with a few exceptions- hold little appeal beyond the enthusiast market)
More people might buy Rovers or Rangers if they knew such things existed. They receive very little publicity / advertising, even at stations -- maybe a leaflet in a rack on a few of the larger stations - if you are lucky.
And all-line rovers were greatly devalued when peak hour restrictions were imposed.
 

MikeWh

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And there’s also all the random extra people, both adults and children, that you can take with you using the same card. AIUI no railcards that include more than one individual can be loaded on Oyster.
They can, but they only apply to the holder, not companions. Gold card and Disabled cards spring to mind.
 

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