Toc to Open Access

[Nick82]

One big difference between a TOC and Open Access (or indeed a FOC) that I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned yet is job security. Redundancies are extremely rare at TOCs - but as the former employees of Wrexham & Shropshire, and GC's aborted Blackpool depot will testify, things are a lot less guaranteed at open access. I'm not sure of any TOCs that have had redundancies for drivers, but it's definitely happened at Open Access and on the Freight.

This keeps getting raised and I understand the argument, however remember Wrexham and Shropshire only lasted a mater of months where LUMO been running 3 years now and GC since early 2000.
In regards to the Blackpool route, that's different as it's not a new company it was a route. Those who were employed were found alternative jobs else where ie drivers back to Northern or Avanti - Non were made redundant.
This is why OAO have union representation in order for the union to assist in any redundancy. A number of TOCs have taken on Drivers that were made redundant from other FOCs - yes not a guarantee however I don't believe one day your a driver and the next on the street. There will be avenues that will help you.

If GC were going to make traincrew redundant then covid would of been the end.

It's a risk being in OAO but I don't agree that you'll be out of a job the next day

 

[tiptoptaff]

This keeps getting raised and I understand the argument, however remember Wrexham and Shropshire only lasted a mater of months where LUMO been running 3 years now and GC since early 2000.
In regards to the Blackpool route, that's different as it's not a new company it was a route. Those who were employed were found alternative jobs else where ie drivers back to Northern or Avanti - Non were made redundant.
This is why OAO have union representation in order for the union to assist in any redundancy. A number of TOCs have taken on Drivers that were made redundant from other FOCs - yes not a guarantee however I don't believe one day your a driver and the next on the street. There will be avenues that will help you.

If GC were going to make traincrew redundant then covid would of been the end.

It's a risk being in OAO but I don't agree that you'll be out of a job the next day

I do.

I was.

i am.

There aren't

 

[craigybagel]

Indeed. One bloke I know left GWR to go to BPN with GC, and the nearest ASLEF could get him was XC at Leeds. A second relocation in 12months

Similar with W&S. I know a few ended up at Chiltern at Moor Street. Commutable, but a long day. Others ended up at closer depots but on the freight, which is a fairly big lifestyle change that isn't going to be to all tastes

This keeps getting raised and I understand the argument, however remember Wrexham and Shropshire only lasted a mater of months where LUMO been running 3 years now and GC since early 2000.

W&S were in service for nearly 3 years.

In regards to the Blackpool route, that's different as it's not a new company it was a route. Those who were employed were found alternative jobs else where ie drivers back to Northern or Avanti - Non were made redundant.
This is why OAO have union representation in order for the union to assist in any redundancy. A number of TOCs have taken on Drivers that were made redundant from other FOCs - yes not a guarantee however I don't believe one day your a driver and the next on the street. There will be avenues that will help you.

If GC were going to make traincrew redundant then covid would of been the end.

As I said above, it's not exactly an easy process.

It's a risk being in OAO but I don't agree that you'll be out of a job the next day

I never said you were. But statistically it's a greater risk - and surely it's something people should consider before taking the plunge?

 

[357]

I think there's something to look at when thinking about risk.

Wrexham lasted three years, Blackpool never started.

I think they are different cases to eg joining Hull Trains or GC now, routes that have been going for many years and are profitable.

 

[Train_manager]

LUMO has travel facilities and Union representation

GC has travel facilities and Union representation

Hull Trains has travel facilities and Union representation.

These are facts, so easily back up saying "you'll lose your facilities is false"

I appreciate that safeguarded staff will lose their protected status, but will retain TOCNE facilities. None of them are in RailPen, so you'd have it frozen.

Loss of RPS should be enough to put any SANE toc driver off from jumping ship,!!!

Loss of final salary pension? For a DC ? Are you MAD !!!

 

[IanXC]

LUMO has travel facilities and Union representation

GC has travel facilities and Union representation

Hull Trains has travel facilities and Union representation.

These are facts, so easily back up saying "you'll lose your facilities is false"

I appreciate that safeguarded staff will lose their protected status, but will retain TOCNE facilities. None of them are in RailPen, so you'd have it frozen.

I've always had the impression that they have domestic travel facilities (well since the dates they each started accepting PRIV tickets from other operators), but do they all have FIP discount and coupon privileges?

 

[357]

but do they all have FIP discount and coupon privileges?

Yes, to the best of my knowledge.

I certainly do.

Loss of RPS should be enough to put any SANE toc driver off from jumping ship,!!!

Loss of final salary pension? For a DC ? Are you MAD !!!

I consider myself SANE and the terms and conditions far outweighed the pension changes, as I don't intend to stay driving trains for the rest of my life. I also considered the possibility of it not being final salary by the time I retire.

Clearly, I am MAD !!!

 

[scouseyb123]

ASLEF said at the time that none were made redundant and all found jobs elsewhere within DB/Arrival. Was this not the case?

I was a trainee driver for Blackpool GC, ended up at Northern.

 

[Train_manager]

Yes, to the best of my knowledge.

I certainly do.


I consider myself SANE and the terms and conditions far outweighed the pension changes, as I don't intend to stay driving trains for the rest of my life. I also considered the possibility of it not being final salary by the time I retire.

Clearly, I am MAD !!!

Did you transfer from a TOC with RPS?

 

[357]

Did you transfer from a TOC with RPS?

Yes. I have not regretted taking the move for 1 second.

 

[Yfg132]

I'd rather have the better lifestyle whilst I'm young than heavily focus on retiring like a lot on the railway seem to do and then not really enjoy it anyway! Can't make a decision today for when your 60+, a lot can happen before then and hopefully you will make it there.

 

[Train_manager]

I'd rather have the better lifestyle whilst I'm young than heavily focus on retiring like a lot on the railway seem to do and then not really enjoy it anyway! Can't make a decision today for when your 60+, a lot can happen before then and hopefully you will make it there.

I wish you both the best of luck and happy retirement.

 

[Yfg132]

I'm 35 so a long way off but thank you, also work for a TOC btw but if the job suited me much better for the next few decades I'd leave and not base everything on a pension. But that's just me!

 

[craigybagel]

I think there's something to look at when thinking about risk.

Wrexham lasted three years, Blackpool never started.

I think they are different cases to eg joining Hull Trains or GC now, routes that have been going for many years and are profitable.

Indeed, as someone else said if they survived COVID they'll probably survive anything! I would have few qualms about joining those two.

But on the horizon we have the new Stirling and Carmarthen services, and also the second Wrexham attempt. If plans get advanced enough they actively start recruiting for qualified traincrew, it's a risk people will have to bear in mind.

 

[43066]

I'd rather have the better lifestyle whilst I'm young than heavily focus on retiring like a lot on the railway seem to do and then not really enjoy it anyway! Can't make a decision today for when your 60+, a lot can happen before then and hopefully you will make it there.

Or they retire and drop dead soon after! Yours sounds like a sensible approach.