TOCs being anti bike?

[elementalpat]

It seems that in this day and age that TOCs do not wish to help out bike users.

Even new rolling stock are not designed with bike users in mind as the priority is bums in seats.

London to Brighton Bike Ride, Southern do not do anything to help out.

And another event this week, FGW are also being very unhelpful about conveying more bikes.

Surely, the TOCs can lease some sort of special train once a year to cater for the bike users.

 

[455driver]

Surely, the TOCs can lease some sort of special train once a year to cater for the bike users.

Whats one of them then?
Have you actually thought this through-
the train does not exist,
where is it going to be kept,
who is going to maintain it,
who is going to be trained to use it,
what is going to pull it,
where is it going to be loaded/unloaded and by whom,
who is responsible for the bikes while in transit?

That is enough for now.

 

[TOCDriver]

It seems that in this day and age that TOCs do not wish to help out bike users.

Even new rolling stock are not designed with bike users in mind as the priority is bums in seats.

London to Brighton Bike Ride, Southern do not do anything to help out.

And another event this week, FGW are also being very unhelpful about conveying more bikes.

Surely, the TOCs can lease some sort of special train once a year to cater for the bike users.

As far as I'm concerned, bikes take a very low priority as far as moving people about is concerned. To be quite frank, I consider them to be a royal pain in the backside on busy services

 

[elementalpat]

Not too worried about the day-to-day conveyance of bikes.

Just the lack of willingness by TOCs to go the extra mile when events are on.

 

[Antman]

Not too worried about the day-to-day conveyance of bikes.

Just the lack of willingness by TOCs to go the extra mile when events are on.

These events do raise a lot of money for charity so it would be good PR for any TOC to do whatever they can to help.

 

[455driver]

Okay everyone is saying it would be good PR etc (which of course it would be) but what exactly do you expect the TOCs to do without losing money on it?

 

[Flamingo]

As far as I am concerned, bikes are a kind of oversized luggage, that their owners expect to be conveyed free of charge. Rather than being considerate, their owners often display a breathtaking disregard for the comfort, safety and convenience of their fellow passengers.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen bikes stored in an unsafe manner, totally blocking the emergency exits, and the usual response of the owner can be summarised as a shrug of the shoulders and "Yea, so?" Don't even start me on the tantrums thrown when told there is no room for them.

I've never yet heard a convincing argument why they deserve special treatment.

 

[alex17595]

As far as I'm concerned, bikes take a very low priority as far as moving people about is concerned. To be quite frank, I consider them to be a royal pain in the backside on busy services

I agree, I was on the Derby to Crewe line and 2 bikes got on a stoke with people standing. It was a joke on a single car 153.

 

[NSEFAN]

For the Brighton-London race, you'd ideally want to put the bikes on a seperate train to the bikers taking part. The problem is finding enough suitable vehicles for that many bikes! You could say put them all in a 12 car 377, but the space isn't configured for lots of bikes and I can't imagine Southern want their seats to get covered in dirt!

I suppose a train formed of BG carriages (or even freight wagons) could be chartered, but that would be quite expensive and would need a lot of planning to make it work smoothly!

 

[34D]

Whats one of them then?
Have you actually thought this through-
the train does not exist,
where is it going to be kept,
who is going to maintain it,
who is going to be trained to use it,
what is going to pull it,
where is it going to be loaded/unloaded and by whom,
who is responsible for the bikes while in transit?

That is enough for now.

20 years ago didn't MLVs get added to trains when things like this were anticipated?

 

[Antman]

As far as I am concerned, bikes are a kind of oversized luggage, that their owners expect to be conveyed free of charge. Rather than being considerate, their owners often display a breathtaking disregard for the comfort, safety and convenience of their fellow passengers.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen bikes stored in an unsafe manner, totally blocking the emergency exits, and the usual response of the owner can be summarised as a shrug of the shoulders and "Yea, so?" Don't even start me on the tantrums thrown when told there is no room for them.

I've never yet heard a convincing argument why they deserve special treatment.

A bit like buggies really, particularly ones carrying screaming brats that are quite capable of walking, it's not their fault it's the lazy parents that are too blame.

I can't say I've ever witnessed any sort of 'bad attitude' from cyclists though.

 

[ert47]

Southern are a commuter TOC and have to deal with a large amount of passengers every day of the week. In addition to this, having Gatwick on the BML doesn't help as they have to provide some space for luggage without sacrificing space for people to sit/stand.

All of Southerns 171s, 377s, 455s and 456s (not sure about the 442s) have spaces for wheelchairs/pushchairs/cycles. These areas are located towards the middle of each unit. While I understand your frustration, there isn't really much that can be done.

London Bridge has/had a bike rack located on Platform 8. This facility was in place for people/commuters to leave their cycles at the station so they wouldn't take them on peak services (which is not allowed).

 

[Silv1983]

Trains are a mode of transport, as are bikes. Carrying one mode of transport on another is probably non-sensical in the eyes of the business!
Personally I have no issues with people carrying their bikes on a train from one place to another, but those that squeeze them on during rush hour is quite inconsiderate. Either get up a bit earlier, wait for the peak time to end - or buy a fold up.

 

[tsr]

I don't think there are very many reasonable ways for Southern to cater for events with unusually high numbers of bikes, with their current stock and timetabling constraints! The best method might indeed be to charter some sort of freight service, but loading, unloading, BML pathing, cost, station stops, supervision and insurance for high value bikes would probably all be problems. But then perhaps these hurdles need to be overcome somehow and it may turn out that we do need a sort of "Leisure Multiple Unit" for bikes and luggage, which could be a DMU with double-deck bike racks fitted instead of seats. This could target specific areas of the country at specific times - possibly run by NR and paid for by TOCs, on the basis that passengers pay for a slot, thus recouping some costs. How about a stripped-out 150, for example, when one becomes available (well... hmmm!)? This idea needs a huge amount of work, but maybe, just maybe, it could be done, if demand exists.

 

[TheEdge]

As far as I am concerned, bikes are a kind of oversized luggage, that their owners expect to be conveyed free of charge. Rather than being considerate, their owners often display a breathtaking disregard for the comfort, safety and convenience of their fellow passengers.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen bikes stored in an unsafe manner, totally blocking the emergency exits, and the usual response of the owner can be summarised as a shrug of the shoulders and "Yea, so?" Don't even start me on the tantrums thrown when told there is no room for them.

I've never yet heard a convincing argument why they deserve special treatment.

This.

I've worked a train recently during a known cycling event where the trains are not big enough to take the people, the TOC, crew, cyclists and organisers know this. The organisers even make it known the capacity of local trains is not great for bikes.

Yet as I turned away cycle after cycle as I am full I get the same comment; "this happens every year"....

 

[FGW_DID]

I can't say I've ever witnessed any sort of 'bad attitude' from cyclists though.

A couple of months ago, I saw a middle aged bloke, at Didcot, throw a massive tantrum when he tried to put his bike on a 180 (no bikes permitted on this particular service & advertised on the CIS). After a very loud and abusive rant at the driver (the end he was trying to put his bike in), he then proceeded to pick his bike up, throw it against the station building, throw his rucksack along the platform, then to cap the performance ran down the platform and started repeatedly headbutting the timetable display!!

Result: He made himself look a complete k**b and had to wait for the next Oxford stopper just like the other two cyclists who were quite happily waiting!

 

[Antman]

A couple of months ago, I saw a middle aged bloke, at Didcot, throw a massive tantrum when he tried to put his bike on a 180 (no bikes permitted on this particular service & advertised on the CIS). After a very loud and abusive rant at the driver (the end he was trying to put his bike in), he then proceeded to pick his bike up, throw it against the station building, throw his rucksack along the platform, then to cap the performance ran down the platform and started repeatedly headbutting the timetable display!!

Result: He made himself look a complete k**b and had to wait for the next Oxford stopper just like the other two cyclists who were quite happily waiting!

Does this sort of thing only happen in Dicot?

Probably just ended up with a bruised head (no chance of brain damage) and a damaged bike and rucksack............would have looked great on youtube

 

[1e10]

If people need to take bikes on trains then they should be owning fold-up bikes.

 

[tsr]

If people need to take bikes on trains then they should be owning fold-up bikes.

Except that there will likely always be rail links, or passengers, from a number of cycling trails which are not necessarily comfortable or safe when used with the vast majority of fold-up bikes. Sure, there are some decent fold-up mountain bikes, but they are expensive and much more hassle than they're worth, and can be rather pointy, bulky and obtrusive when folded, anyway!

There are also no problems with carrying a modest number of full-size bikes on many, if not most, quieter services - trains which may be either off-peak or against the main flows in the peak.

 

[1e10]

Except that there will likely always be rail links, or passengers from, a number of cycling trails which are not necessarily comfortable or safe when used with the vast majority of fold-up bikes. Sure, there are some decent fold-up mountain bikes, but they are expensive and much more hassle than they're worth, and can be rather pointy, bulky and obtrusive when folded, anyway!

There are also no problems with carrying a modest number of full-size bikes on many, if not most, quieter services - trains which may be either off-peak or against the main flows in the peak.

Perhaps cycle spaces need to be reservation only then.

 

[yorkie]

Perhaps cycle spaces need to be reservation only then.

Some are.

All TOCs have cycle policies.

 

[AlexS]

Cycles take up more space than a human and add no extra revenue.

The number of cyclists is miniscule as a percentage of passengers. Therefore why should space be made for them above the number of spaces already provided on most trains.

I'd also be quite happy with banning them at peak times. If you want to ride a bike, facilities are provided to lock them up at stations, if having two bikes is an issue then tough.

Quite regularly get 6 or 7 bikes turn up for the first sprinter type train on my line and the amount of temper tantrums thrown when they can't get on is ridiculous.

 

[transmanche]

Cycles take up more space than a human and add no extra revenue.

Have you considered that the passenger might not actually make the journey if they can't take their bike with them?

I'd also be quite happy with banning them at peak times.

This already happens on a large number of routes; certainly services on 'commuter' TOCs to/from London, Cambridge.

 

[swt_passenger]

...Even new rolling stock are not designed with bike users in mind as the priority is bums in seats.

In my opinion even the 'old rolling stock' you mention was never designed to carry bikes. It is purely accidental in that most of these trains were built with 'van space' for parcels traffic (which was paid for by the sender).

As the parcels traffic disappeared onto the road network, the spaces got used by bikes, but the replacement stock was not expected to carry any parcels traffic, so a dedicated 'van' area was never designed in.

Whatever happened on the Brighton line in the last century was when they still had their obsolescent stock with removable seats to hand - today's replacement modern stock was still being introduced. To expect them to wreck the new stock by stuffing it full of bikes just because a once a year event comes round is a bit of a naive point of view, to be honest...

 

[455driver]

20 years ago didn't MLVs get added to trains when things like this were anticipated?

Yeah and?

That was then and has no relevance to now, they used to use withdrawn HAP and SAPs as the comparments were perfect for putting lots of bikes in, they dont exist anymore so what do you suggest the TOCs do now with what is available.

 

[chris11256]

Policy for my local operator(c2c, I commute to Fenchurch street from Thorpe Bay) is that full size bikes are not allowed and should be blocked by ticket barrier staff. Folding bikes however are welcome. In theory each train(357) has space for one/two bikes in the toilet area. However this space soon fills up with standing passengers.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The only way for Southern to actually carry pushbike is to remove all seats so that everyone is standing - more room then to carry more passengers and pushbikes.

 

[transmanche]

Policy for my local operator(c2c, I commute to Fenchurch street from Thorpe Bay) is that full size bikes are not allowed and should be blocked by ticket barrier staff. Folding bikes however are welcome. In theory each train(357) has space for one/two bikes in the toilet area. However this space soon fills up with standing passengers.

That of course only applies on journeys scheduled to arrive at Fenchurch St between 07:15 and 09:45 Mon-Fri - and trains scheduled to depart from Fenchurch St between 16:30 and 18:42 Mon-Fri.

 

[EM2]

As I understand it, if you do the London-Brighton, then the organisers will transport both yourself (by coach) and your bike (by truck) back to London free of charge.
So in theory, there should be no need to use the train.

 

[1e10]

There is barely room for people to travel on a lot of services. TOCs should take control of demand for passengers before trying to accomadate for bikes.