Todmorden Curve

[Deerfold]

I notice the first would allow someone from Burnley wanting to get to central Manchester at around 08:30 to catch a train from Burnley Manchester Rd at 07:38, while doing the same commute on bus would require you to catch a bus at 07:07. So while the Witchway buses are nice and run more frequently, I think getting up half an hour later could appeal to some people.

Assuming it take them the same time to get to the Bus Station or Machester Road station, yes.

The via Todmorden fares look a lot more attractive than the previous fares. The off-peak duo even beats the Witch Way's discount for 2 people by 30p (though the Witch Way has no evening restrictions).

 

[158756]

I notice the first would allow someone from Burnley wanting to get to central Manchester at around 08:30 to catch a train from Burnley Manchester Rd at 07:38, while doing the same commute on bus would require you to catch a bus at 07:07. So while the Witchway buses are nice and run more frequently, I think getting up half an hour later could appeal to some people.

Looking at the census travel to work stats, I think the bigger problem for the new service may be the total size of the market from Accrington and Burnley to Central Manchester. It's not big, and few are recorded as using the bus, other than those living on its route south of the station.

The second problem is the journey time, the car matches the train for time even at peak times.Off-peak the car is definitely quicker, whilst the bus is more comfortable and frequent.
I hope to be proved wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are comments in this thread in May along the lines of 'the train was practically empty', 'I had a whole carriage to myself' etc.

 

[Darren R]

...The second problem is the journey time, the car matches the train for time even at peak times.Off-peak the car is definitely quicker, whilst the bus is more comfortable and frequent....

Ah - but you don't have to find somewhere to park the train upon arrival in central Manchester!

I think we'll find the ticket situation has been examined quite carefully. Expect to see "Route: Bolton not Todmorden" or similar starting to appear on tickets. If they don't, a Cheap Day Return from Blackburn to Manchester will be valid on the longer route, not to mention the potential anomolies created by the through trains and the odd circular service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just done a quick search on NRE for journeys on 18th May. A return from Blackburn to Manchester via Bolton is priced at £9.70, whilst via Todmorden it's priced at £10.10. Tickets to Bradford and Leeds are showing as being valid either on the through trains from Blackpool North to York or by changing at Todmorden onto services from Manchester Victoria. A search for Blackburn to Rochdale quotes a fare of £10, valid either via the new services, or by changing at Hebden Bridge, but no mention of going via Manchester. Curiously, from Darwen to Rochdale return it will be 10p cheaper changing at Blackburn (even if changing additionally at Hebden Bridge) than by changing at Vic.

 

[Y961 XBU]

It's official! (Well not quite, but it's on RTT at least! )

The first scheduled passenger service is the 0820 departure from Blackburn to Manchester Victoria on Sunday 17th May.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y38464/2015/05/17/advanced

List of weekday departures from Burnley Manchester Road:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BYM/2015/05/18/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

There are some weird and wonderful services that should cause some furrowed brows at departure screens:
0615 Blackburn to Southport via Atherton
0619 Blackpool North to Blackburn
0930 Bolton to Blackburn
1520 Blackburn to Clitheroe (which, if you miss it the first time, you can catch the second time round at 1724!)
1720 Blackburn to Blackburn
1621 Blackpool North to Blackburn

Am I correct in thinking that a through train constitutes a a valid permitted route for ticketing purposes?

I thought the Kirkby - Todmorden Services where getting extended to Blackburn via the Curve?

 

[Darren R]

I thought the Kirkby - Todmorden Services where getting extended to Blackburn via the Curve?

They are, but not all the Todmorden terminators originate at Kirkby. Additionally, although services work through from Kirkby to Todmorden, in the opposite direction they only go as far as Wigan Wallgate. (From memory the current diagram is Kirkby - Todmorden - Wigan Wallgate - Man Vic - Kirkby. As of May, substitute Blackburn for Todmorden.)

 

[30907]

Long gone indeed are the days when Rose Grove had services on the Great Harwood loop line that served the railway stations at Padiham, Simonstone and Great Harwood.

1957 for regular passenger workings, they tell me here.

 

[chrissawer]

A search for Blackburn to Rochdale quotes a fare of £10, valid either via the new services, or by changing at Hebden Bridge, but no mention of going via Manchester.

That's not too bad for a journey of over 20 miles.

Todmorden to Burnley on the new service however is currently showing in NRE as £9.00 single, £9.10 off peak return and £10.20 anytime return - this is expensive for a 9 mile journey and I can't see it tempting many people off the bus.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can someone please explain (in terms of simplicity) to me why it was publically stated by Northern Rail that there were no DMU to run the service when I note that existing DMU services are proposed to be extended to cover such duties.

Why could these existing DMU services not have had the routes extended earlier? Am I missing something logic-wise here?

 

[northwichcat]

Can someone please explain (in terms of simplicity) to me why it was publically stated by Northern Rail that there were no DMU to run the service when I note that existing DMU services are proposed to be extended to cover such duties.

Why could these existing DMU services not have had the routes extended earlier? Am I missing something logic-wise here?

1 extra unit is required to allow those diagram revisions. The extra unit was supposed to be one freed up by Chat Moss electrification last year.

 

[deltic08]

That's not too bad for a journey of over 20 miles.

Todmorden to Burnley on the new service however is currently showing in NRE as £9.00 single, £9.10 off peak return and £10.20 anytime return - this is expensive for a 9 mile journey and I can't see it tempting many people off the bus.

This is very overpriced for a 9 mile journey. The 30 miles from Edinburgh to Galashiels is only £9.20 single.

 

[northwichcat]

This is very overpriced for a 9 mile journey. The 30 miles from Edinburgh to Galashiels is only £9.20 single.

And Edinburgh to Galashiels sounds underpriced.

 

[Geeves]

I had a ride up to Colne yesterday and noticed the road learner thundering through as we were stopped at Rishton.

It was indeed a 142. I thought Paul would be happy!

 

[lejog]

That's not too bad for a journey of over 20 miles.

Todmorden to Burnley on the new service however is currently showing in NRE as £9.00 single, £9.10 off peak return and £10.20 anytime return - this is expensive for a 9 mile journey and I can't see it tempting many people off the bus.

Hebden Bridge to Burnley Man Rd direct is only £7.60 single, although £10.80 changing at Todmorden. I suppose you get to travel over Todmorden viaduct (twice) and the curve for your extra £3.20!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

According to the ELCRP (East Lancashire Community Rail Partnership), the new service will commence in May 2015 and will start from Blackburn, calling at Accrington, Rose Grove and Burnley Manchester Road. In addition, Church & Oswaldtwistle will be served on Sundays only.

As one resident a good distance to the south of this project, may I enquire from those with local knowledge what was the reasoning behind the Sunday-only service that serves Church & Oswaldtwistle. Is Sunday a special day needing this service to call there in that area?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

As one resident a good distance to the south of this project, may I enquire from those with local knowledge what was the reasoning behind the Sunday-only service that serves Church & Oswaldtwistle. Is Sunday a special day needing this service to call there in that area?

Something tells me it's to give it an hourly Sunday service (Colne-Preston / Blackpool South is 1tp2h on Sundays), perhaps on account of the nearby Ossy Mills stores and the trade thereof, but I'm not 100% certain. I wouldn't have thought its passenger numbers alone justified an hourly Sunday service, so there has to be another reason.

 

[snowball]

As one resident a good distance to the south of this project, may I enquire from those with local knowledge what was the reasoning behind the Sunday-only service that serves Church & Oswaldtwistle. Is Sunday a special day needing this service to call there in that area?

Obviously a Sunday service should call at Church!

 

[CalderRail]

That's not too bad for a journey of over 20 miles.

Todmorden to Burnley on the new service however is currently showing in NRE as £9.00 single, £9.10 off peak return and £10.20 anytime return - this is expensive for a 9 mile journey and I can't see it tempting many people off the bus.

Typical stupidity over the boundaries of the WYPTE zones.

it's only £7.60 if you buy a Hebden Bridge to Burnley Manchester Road Ticket & "change" at Todmorden.

 

[edwin_m]

They obviously have more people going to Church on a Sunday!

 

[lejog]

Typical stupidity over the boundaries of the WYPTE zones.

it's only £7.60 if you buy a Hebden Bridge to Burnley Manchester Road Ticket & "change" at Todmorden.

Err no it isn't, according to NRE you need a new via Tod ticket.

Hebden Bridge to Burnley Man Rd direct is only £7.60 single, although £10.80 changing at Todmorden. I suppose you get to travel over Todmorden viaduct (twice) and the curve for your extra £3.20!

 

[Flying Claret]

Paul, as a resident of the people's republic of Oswaldtwistle I can confirm that there is the square root of sod all going on on sundays. It must be sometjing to do with ossy mills. Pretty sure the mills 'sponsor' the station, flower beds, signs etc. They do promote travel by rail at the mill and i think are included in some east lancs rail leaflets.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Paul, as a resident of the people's republic of Oswaldtwistle I can confirm that there is the square root of sod all going on on sundays. It must be sometjing to do with ossy mills. Pretty sure the mills 'sponsor' the station, flower beds, signs etc. They do promote travel by rail at the mill and i think are included in some east lancs rail leaflets.

Many thanks for that localised input which now makes the matter far more clearer (and logical) to me. I think that Oswaldtwistle Mills have had TV advertising in the past.

 

[northwichcat]

Many thanks for that localised input which now makes the matter far more clearer (and logical) to me. I think that Oswaldtwistle Mills have had TV advertising in the past.

I'm not I've seen advertising for that one. Boundary Mills (Colne) as certainly done a lot of TV advertising in the North West.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm sure I've not seen advertising for that one. Boundary Mills (Colne) as certainly done a lot of TV advertising in the North West.

Oswaldtwistle Mills always made a note in its TV adverts that it was at "Junction 7 on the M65". It is some time since I saw the last one but it had comments that it also had a garden centre and restaurants, even a holiday booking service at one time.

 

[Deerfold]

I'm not I've seen advertising for that one. Boundary Mills (Colne) as certainly done a lot of TV advertising in the North West.

Not to mention the North East (we get them in West Yorkshire, anyway).

 

[Bevan Price]

Looking at the census travel to work stats, I think the bigger problem for the new service may be the total size of the market from Accrington and Burnley to Central Manchester. It's not big, and few are recorded as using the bus, other than those living on its route south of the station.

The second problem is the journey time, the car matches the train for time even at peak times.Off-peak the car is definitely quicker, whilst the bus is more comfortable and frequent.
I hope to be proved wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are comments in this thread in May along the lines of 'the train was practically empty', 'I had a whole carriage to myself' etc.

Aa with any new service, it will probably take a few years for passenger numbers to attain maximum numbers.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Aa with any new service, it will probably take a few years for passenger numbers to attain maximum numbers.

Indeed this is so. This must be an unusual case for the proposed rail service, bearing in mind the "expected" rolling stock which is most likely to appear upon it, as the X43 "Lancashire Witch" bus service on the Burnley to Manchester section of the route has had very modern buses with Wi-Fi now running for quite some time for prospective rail travellers to consider.

Does anyone think those who operate the X43 bus service will pay close attention to the fares that Northern Rail will be charging?

 

[Starmill]

I have actually been to Oswaldtwistle Mills and not Boundary Mill Stores, but I've only ever seen adverts for the latter!

Anyway regarding the trains, they will still be fairly busy from Todmorden.

 

[Ploughman]

Just found this.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/new...45/blackburn-to-rochdale-crew-training-begins

Sorry if it has been posted already.

 

[158756]

It's official! (Well not quite, but it's on RTT at least! )

The first scheduled passenger service is the 0820 departure from Blackburn to Manchester Victoria on Sunday 17th May.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y38464/2015/05/17/advanced

List of weekday departures from Burnley Manchester Road:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BYM/2015/05/18/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

There are some weird and wonderful services that should cause some furrowed brows at departure screens:
0615 Blackburn to Southport via Atherton
0619 Blackpool North to Blackburn
0930 Bolton to Blackburn
1520 Blackburn to Clitheroe (which, if you miss it the first time, you can catch the second time round at 1724!)
1720 Blackburn to Blackburn
1621 Blackpool North to Blackburn

Am I correct in thinking that a through train constitutes a a valid permitted route for ticketing purposes?

Realtime Trains is now showing a different timetable, with most services starting and terminating at Victoria. Something to do with Farnworth Tunnel?

There is currently no 1720 from Blackburn or 12xx Manchester-Burnley-Blackburn. The 1520 appears to be split at Victoria.

The 0619 from Blackpool and 0930 from Bolton seem to have gone as well.

 

[RAPC]

I'm not I've seen advertising for that one. Boundary Mills (Colne) as certainly done a lot of TV advertising in the North West.

As Paul rightly says, Junction 7 is featured and here is the proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcio92IbCTY

I am in the North West, but hadn't seen the advertising either, so the above was the first I saw of it.