Toilets out of use

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neilmc

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I recently boarded a Glasgow-Manchester Airport Transpennine service with no functioning toilet; the conductor informed us of the fact but didn't suggest how to resolve it. From Penrith southwards the train made no extended station call to allow passengers to use any station toilet.

Now if one was on an advance ticket and desperately needed the loo, could you alight, miss the train and catch a later one without penalty?

(For info, it was a 3-car diesel unit - the return from Manchester was a very full 8-car electric unit and a passenger was STILL complaining of toilets out of order. I think if I value my bladder I ought to catch Virgin to Preston!)
 
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HMS Ark Royal

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I recently boarded a Glasgow-Manchester Airport Transpennine service with no functioning toilet; the conductor informed us of the fact but didn't suggest how to resolve it. From Penrith southwards the train made no extended station call to allow passengers to use any station toilet.

Now if one was on an advance ticket and desperately needed the loo, could you alight, miss the train and catch a later one without penalty?

(For info, it was a 3-car diesel unit - the return from Manchester was a very full 8-car electric unit and a passenger was STILL complaining of toilets out of order. I think if I value my bladder I ought to catch Virgin to Preston!)

If the toilet was InOp, why did it enter service?
 

221129

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If the toilet was InOp, why did it enter service?

Better to have a train without toilets than no train at all.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I recently boarded a Glasgow-Manchester Airport Transpennine service with no functioning toilet; the conductor informed us of the fact but didn't suggest how to resolve it. From Penrith southwards the train made no extended station call to allow passengers to use any station toilet.

Now if one was on an advance ticket and desperately needed the loo, could you alight, miss the train and catch a later one without penalty?

(For info, it was a 3-car diesel unit - the return from Manchester was a very full 8-car electric unit and a passenger was STILL complaining of toilets out of order. I think if I value my bladder I ought to catch Virgin to Preston!)

Surely you would just ask the guard for an extended stop or to endorse your ticket before getting off?
 

HMS Ark Royal

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Now if one was on an advance ticket and desperately needed the loo, could you alight, miss the train and catch a later one without penalty?

I presume one could claim medical reasons... Lots of infections happen from holding it in too long, I know that only too well

Would make one hell of a delay repay claim!

Better to have a train without toilets than no train at all.

One would have thought that a train with no functional toilets would make that train a failure and unable to enter service.
 

221129

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I presume one could claim medical reasons... Lots of infections happen from holding it in too long, I know that only too well

Would make one hell of a delay repay claim!



One would have thought that a train with no functional toilets would make that train a failure and unable to enter service.

Presumably if it was on the depot overnight then the toilets would be functioning or t wouldn't come off the depot. But if it happens during the middle of the day? Not much you can do about it.
 

Bletchleyite

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Given the embarrassment of "stop the train I need to use the loo" I would suggest the TOC should arrange periodic stops (perhaps once an hour or thereabouts) and announce these without having to be asked to do so.

Ticket restrictions should also be lifted to allow the use of the following service if you have an Advance or Off Peak ticket and toilets would normally be provided.
 

HMS Ark Royal

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Presumably if it was on the depot overnight then the toilets would be functioning or t wouldn't come off the depot. But if it happens during the middle of the day? Not much you can do about it.

True

But surely a train with no toilets is not fit for service and should be removed or, if possible, coupled to another unit with DOES have working toilets.

Its what Northern seem to do
 

Tetchytyke

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True

But surely a train with no toilets is not fit for service and should be removed or, if possible, coupled to another unit with DOES have working toilets.

Its what Northern seem to do

Having caught a train from Grosmont to Newcastle with no working toilet last autumn, I can assure you it isn't what Northern do...
 

mbreckers

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One would have thought that a train with no functional toilets would make that train a failure and unable to enter service.

If that was the case some ScotRail services would never run (I'm looking at you Mr. Class 320)
 

LowLevel

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It's not at all desirable but definitely beats a cancellation if it's all you have. Class 153s for example are also vulnerable to toilet stops on longer journeys for people confined to their wheelchairs as there's no physical way to get them to a loo. A poor situation and very embarrassing for the person caught short and the train crew in any circumstances. I've had to improvise before with Control's approval and stop at an unmanned station with a crew break facility to use that in an emergency.
 

Haywain

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Given the embarrassment of "stop the train I need to use the loo" I would suggest the TOC should arrange periodic stops (perhaps once an hour or thereabouts) and announce these without having to be asked to do so.

The pathing problems the stops would cause will lead to the service being cancelled and the train running empty. I think the majority would not see that as an improvement.

But surely a train with no toilets is not fit for service and should be removed or, if possible, coupled to another unit with DOES have working toilets.
All very well, but TOCs don't just have spare trains sitting around on the off chance. You would, as above, get a cancellation instead.
 

yorksrob

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The pathing problems the stops would cause will lead to the service being cancelled and the train running empty. I think the majority would not see that as an improvement.

All very well, but TOCs don't just have spare trains sitting around on the off chance. You would, as above, get a cancellation instead.

Although in the case of the OP's journey, there is a currently underused loop at Penrith which could be used while other trains pass. There's also the one at Oxenholme (providing there's no Windermere service waiting. Might not be so useful for up services though.
 

Starmill

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While I think that there is a loop at Oxenholme, it isn't in the platform.
 

Merseysider

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As a lot of southbound TPE services have 4 minutes padding built into the timetable at Preston I'd hope the extended stop there (if running punctually) would be announced to facilitate a quick rush to the loo. Otherwise holding the train is a case of delaying a lot of people (and possibly also the return working) for the sake of one or two which is obviously worse overall than having those affected travel on the next service.
 

Haywain

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Pathing isn't simply about having somewhere to stop, it's also about being able to keep out of the way of other trains when you are running late.
 

greatkingrat

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As a lot of southbound TPE services have 4 minutes padding built into the timetable at Preston I'd hope the extended stop there (if running punctually) would be announced to facilitate a quick rush to the loo. Otherwise holding the train is a case of delaying a lot of people (and possibly also the return working) for the sake of one or two which is obviously worse overall than having those affected travel on the next service.

The problem is that if you announce a stop, you might get 20 people all deciding to head off to the toilet and by the time they all find the toilets (which may be on a different platform), queue up, and get back to the train you've lost at least 10 minutes.
 

Mag_seven

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I remember the Pendos had problems with their toilets not long after they first started - I even remember an announcement at Stafford stating that the next train to London ( a pendo) had only 2 working toilets!
 

Aldaniti

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I remember the Pendos had problems with their toilets not long after they first started - I even remember an announcement at Stafford stating that the next train to London ( a pendo) had only 2 working toilets!

I once travelled on one with just a single working toilet. The queue was lengthy, one poor chap wet himself and I bailed out at Lancaster. Virgin seem to have got their act together now, but I would never use WCML TPE services because of this, as well as capacity issues.
 

fowler9

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The thing is it is not at all like it is uncommon on the 350's and 185's (I'm sure with some other classes to) for both toilets to be locked out of use. That is not good. It is not pleasant being trapped on a train absolutely busting for a wee.
 

Solent&Wessex

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Having caught a train from Grosmont to Newcastle with no working toilet last autumn, I can assure you it isn't what Northern do...

Nor did they do it when I was catching the train back from Lancaster towards West Yorkshire via Clapham after a day on the ale earlier this year when the only toilet was out of use.

The thing is it is not at all like it is uncommon on the 350's and 185's (I'm sure with some other classes to) for both toilets to be locked out of use. That is not good. It is not pleasant being trapped on a train absolutely busting for a wee.

It is relatively rare for the TPE 350s to have all 3 toilets out of use. The only 1 occasion I can think of recently is where a set had never made it back to a depot as due to driver shortages it kept getting dumped in various unusual locations such as Preston or Carlisle overnight and never got serviced.

The 185s however are terrible for it. the amount of use they get, combined with the small tanks for both fresh water and waste mean they regularly can't do more than a day without CET, especially at weekends. And not every overnight stabling location does CET.
Add in the fact that some passengers see fit to try and flush nappies, socks, womens sanitary products, bits of fruit, or simply the entire contents of the toilet roll holder all at once in one great big fist full of paper, down the narrow flush pipe, then they easily get blocked.
 

Howardh

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Trains abroad, there's just a hole to pee into - straight onto the track! So no blockages or toilets out of order.

Solution??!
 

Ianno87

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Trains abroad, there's just a hole to pee into - straight onto the track! So no blockages or toilets out of order.

Solution??!

Tell that to the P'Way gangs.

Same reason we stopped chucking our excrement out of our house windows into the front street.
 

infobleep

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Trains abroad, there's just a hole to pee into - straight onto the track! So no blockages or toilets out of order.

Solution??!
Well the companies aboard have got it totally wrong. They obviouslyike living in the dark ages.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
 

Blindtraveler

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Whilst no class of train or design of bog is immune every time this subject pops up its almost always a class of deziro concerned. Wish all the fanboys would bare this in mind when saying how perfect they are compared to anything else on the rails.


I would love to see penalties applied to opperaters who regularly offend
 

mbreckers

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Whilst no class of train or design of bog is immune every time this subject pops up its almost always a class of deziro concerned. Wish all the fanboys would bare this in mind when saying how perfect they are compared to anything else on the rails.


I would love to see penalties applied to opperaters who regularly offend

I travel on the 380's which are part of the Desiro family and its rare to see their toilets out of use
 

yorksrob

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I once travelled on one with just a single working toilet. The queue was lengthy, one poor chap wet himself.

There's a customer the railway won't be seeing again any time soon. We need to get better at loos, even if we can't quite recreate the mk3 ideal of two loos per carriage.
 

Aldaniti

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There's a customer the railway won't be seeing again any time soon. We need to get better at loos, even if we can't quite recreate the mk3 ideal of two loos per carriage.

I very much agree. BR station toilets were not perfect, but there were rather more of them back in the day, than there are now. Likewise, as you rightly say, there were never queues to use toilets on MK3's - and it was rare to find any locked out of use. I was just reading in another thread that Llandudno - a significant tourist destination - has a newly refurbished station, but that the toilets close just after lunchtime. If we all have one thing in common it is that we share a human need to use a toilet, but all too often, to the private TOC's, the cost of this provision simply eats into profits. The continual cut back to public facilities - whether in the street, or onboard trains and at railway stations, is one which sends us backwards as a country, not forwards.
 

yorksrob

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I very much agree. BR station toilets were not perfect, but there were rather more of them back in the day, than there are now. Likewise, as you rightly say, there were never queues to use toilets on MK3's - and it was rare to find any locked out of use. I was just reading in another thread that Llandudno - a significant tourist destination - has a newly refurbished station, but that the toilets close just after lunchtime. If we all have one thing in common it is that we share a human need to use a toilet, but all too often, to the private TOC's, the cost of this provision simply eats into profits. The continual cut back to public facilities - whether in the street, or onboard trains and at railway stations, is one which sends us backwards as a country, not forwards.


Indeed. Station loos closing after lunch seems particularly barmy.
 

Bletchleyite

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I very much agree. BR station toilets were not perfect, but there were rather more of them back in the day, than there are now. Likewise, as you rightly say, there were never queues to use toilets on MK3's - and it was rare to find any locked out of use. I was just reading in another thread that Llandudno - a significant tourist destination - has a newly refurbished station, but that the toilets close just after lunchtime. If we all have one thing in common it is that we share a human need to use a toilet, but all too often, to the private TOC's, the cost of this provision simply eats into profits. The continual cut back to public facilities - whether in the street, or onboard trains and at railway stations, is one which sends us backwards as a country, not forwards.

Quite, we seem to be returning to the point where those who have a more urgent need for such facilities, particularly female[1], can't enjoy our public parks etc because there is nowhere to "go".

In a civilised society we should be paying enough tax to ensure their proper provision and supervision.

[1] This could I suppose be seen as discrimination, as men can far more easily use the bushes.
 
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