TPE Nova 3 (Class 68 + Mk5s) updates and withdrawal from service

[Peter Sarf]

This month's Railway Magazine states (on page 88) that 'Transpennine Express (TPE) says it is in "active discussions" with the Department for Transport and Transport for the North regarding the future deployment of its Mk.5a 'Nova 3' coaching stock.' It does not provide any details.

I wonder if it is pay for us to use them or we won't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if it is pay for us to use them or we won't.

There is an obvious place they could go - Chiltern - but better discussed here:

Potential future uses for class 68 & Mk5 sets?

IIRC the CAF facility at Newport isn't actually connected to the rail network. Yeah, it's a road-linked production facility, rather than a rail-linked maintenance facility.

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[sjpowermac]

This month's Railway Magazine states (on page 88) that 'Transpennine Express (TPE) says it is in "active discussions" with the Department for Transport and Transport for the North regarding the future deployment of its Mk.5a 'Nova 3' coaching stock.' It does not provide any details.

I wonder if it is pay for us to use them or we won't.

A magazine that has clearly dropped the ball.

There was an agenda item on the Nova 3 trains at the 14.11.2023 Transport for the North meeting. That part of the meeting was, shamefully, held in private (though in fairness, they had probably tired of nosey loco spotters correcting their alternative facts).

Anyhow, a few days later Chris Jackson TPE MD proudly announced his fabulous triumph that the Class 68/Mk5A fleet would be leaving the business in June 2024.

And no they won’t be coming back between now and the off lease date.

 

[KevL]

He can proudly trumpet it to death, but i hope he is thrown out of his job for this abomination.

Nova3 a laptop n work to do easy
cramped vibratey 185 … not a chance

 

[DanNCL]

There’s two Mark 5 sets on Scarborough workings for the majority of today, 68026 and 68030 with TP11 and TP06 respectively.
How the 185s are going to cope without the Mark 5s I don’t know. And how on Earth they ever managed before 802s took over Newcastle workings I really can’t wrap my head around, with great difficulty I think is the answer!

 

[BoroAndy]

Maybe not the right thread, but when the 68s are gone, how many 802s do they have and what routes could they cover?

 

[RHolmes]

Maybe not the right thread, but when the 68s are gone, how many 802s do they have and what routes could they cover?

19* Class 802

Liverpool to Newcastle
Edinburgh to Newcastle
Edinburgh to Manchester Airport (occasional)
Manchester/Leeds/York to Scarborough (occasional)

*1 class 802 is out of service currently due to derailment repairs but expected back in service soon (if it isn’t already)

 

[Bletchleyite]

cramped vibratey 185 … not a chance

185s aren't cramped, the seat spacing is very generous. Better than the Mk5 if I recall.

 

[3RDGEN]

Maybe not the right thread, but when the 68s are gone, how many 802s do they have and what routes could they cover?

From the December timetable the diagrams show TPE 802 usage drops to 12 diagrams Mon-Friday from 13 now, which includes one West Coast diagram. Presumable this will allow spares for training purposes.

An 802 is diagrammed to the York - Scarborough route from next week.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

185s aren't cramped, the seat spacing is very generous. Better than the Mk5 if I recall.

If running solo it gets pretty cosy on them. Seat spacing doesn't really make much difference if a service is full and standing.

 

[170UTD]

An 802 is diagrammed to the York - Scarborough route from next week.

Only the 1? That doesn't bode well, as 2/3 68s were nearly always out. It's going to stretch the 185s even more. Although to be fair, there are less services across the pennines from the timetable change.

 

[JonathanH]

Only the 1?

How many could be utilised on Scarborough services in any case, given traincrew knowledge? I think only York traincrew know 802 and Scarborough.

 

[RHolmes]

Only the 1? That doesn't bode well, as 2/3 68s were nearly always out.

Scarborough depot, Piccadilly and Airport don’t sign them, only York depot.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Only the 1? That doesn't bode well, as 2/3 68s were nearly always out. It's going to stretch the 185s even more. Although to be fair, there are less services across the pennines from the timetable change.

A MK5a also has 22m carriages, whereas an 802 has 26m carriages. That’s a 20m difference per train, which is a whole carriage length for some classes.

 

[BoroAndy]

Scarborough depot, Piccadilly and Airport don’t sign them, only York depot.

So will Scarborough drivers start training on them? Sad sight at Scarborough Station today, 3 x 185s parked up and no real trains. Strike day.

 

[sjpowermac]

So will Scarborough drivers start training on them? Sad sight at Scarborough Station today, 3 x 185s parked up and no real trains. Strike day.

I don’t think that there are currently any plans to train Scarborough drivers on Class 802.

 

[lrailadventure]

A MK5a also has 22m carriages, whereas an 802 has 26m carriages. That’s a 20m difference per train, which is a whole carriage length for some classes.

Indeed, the 802s are too long for some of the platforms at Scarborough, and are therefore only permitted to use some of them.

There is also the situation at Seamer, where part of the train will be off the platform, but due to where the accessible space in standard class is, if there are any wheel chair users, they won't be able to get off!

 

[stottyuk]

Indeed, the 802s are too long for some of the platforms at Scarborough, and are therefore only permitted to use some of them.

There is also the situation at Seamer, where part of the train will be off the platform, but due to where the accessible space in standard class is, if there are any wheel chair users, they won't be able to get off!

I'm sure that if a wheelchair passenger is for Seamer and FC is at the front, providing it is not already in use then they will utilise that space.

If it is then they could offer them the following Northern service or alternative transport ie Taxi

 

[RHolmes]

So will Scarborough drivers start training on them? Sad sight at Scarborough Station today, 3 x 185s parked up and no real trains. Strike day.

No. There is no additional training planned for any member of traincrew until the training backlog is cleared. This particularly effects drivers who don’t currently sign all of the routes, diversion or traction in their assigned links. (It’s easier/less time consuming to route train and traction convert conductors)

The December 24 TT change will be when you will start to see changes to traincrew and traction dependent on the knowledge of traincrew nearer the time. It is also expected that at this point the Huddersfield/Leeds local service will transfer back to Northern

I don’t think that there are currently any plans to train Scarborough drivers on Class 802.

Or Guards.

 

[Spartacus]

If it is then they could offer them the following Northern service or alternative transport ie Taxi

I fear that's turning the clock back several years to TPE's original aborted plan for loco hauled services all over again.

 

[lrailadventure]

If it is then they could offer them the following Northern service or alternative transport ie Taxi

Neither a great solution if you're travelling from York or Malton. Northern's services don't call at either of them, and a taxi would take longer, assuming that a wheelchair accessible taxi can be sourced in the first place...

 

[158801]

Is that the end of the 68’s now ?

Will we see their usage on TPE tomorrow (Saturday) ?

 

[Peter Sarf]

Is that the end of the 68’s now ?

Will we see their usage on TPE tomorrow (Saturday) ?

Probably - gone out with a whimper.

But to be precise the 68s will have plenty to do. Its the TPE Mk5s that are now likely to sit in sidings decaying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I fear that's turning the clock back several years to TPE's original aborted plan for loco hauled services all over again.

Yes, that would (because it's visible) be subject to legal challenge.

What needs to happen is a free upgrade to First Class for a wheelchair user travelling to/from Malton if an 80x is used on that service.

Um, I just checked and TPE 802s don't have wheelchair space in Standard at all, only First, so all wheelchair users are upgraded for free. There is a Standard accessible toilet but this doesn't include any wheelchair spaces.

 

[RHolmes]

What needs to happen is a free upgrade to First Class for a wheelchair user travelling to/from Malton if an 80x is used on that service.

Happens already on the entire Nova fleets

 

[Bletchleyite]

Happens already on the entire Nova fleets

Yep, there isn't a Standard wheelchair space anyway!

A MK5a also has 22m carriages, whereas an 802 has 26m carriages. That’s a 20m difference per train, which is a whole carriage length for some classes.

But not in terms of fitting them in platforms, as a Class 68 is 20.5m long (very long for a loco!). Unless they're allowed to hang off at Scarborough, but that then raises the issue of what if one ends up the wrong way round?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

But not in terms of fitting them in platforms, as a Class 68 is 20.5m long (very long for a loco!). Unless they're allowed to hang off at Scarborough, but that then raises the issue of what if one ends up the wrong way round?

I know, but I’m referring to the Nova 1’s passenger capacity boost, and of course, you cannot sit in a locomotive.

 

[lrailadventure]

Um, I just checked and TPE 802s don't have wheelchair space in Standard at all, only First, so all wheelchair users are upgraded for free. There is a Standard accessible toilet but this doesn't include any wheelchair spaces.

That's what I was thinking of. Apologies for the confusion .

Yes, if there's a 802 on the route and it's the wrong way for the wheelchair user at Seamer they simply can't travel on that service. I reckon it'll be a messy first couple of services for the 802s.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Are we expecting any to be out at all tomorrow (Saturday 09th Dec)?

 

[DanNCL]

Yes, if there's a 802 on the route and it's the wrong way for the wheelchair user at Seamer they simply can't travel on that service. I reckon it'll be a messy first couple of services for the 802s.

That’ll never last. They’ll end up having to draw forward to allow wheelchairs on and off.