TPE services allocated for Double units

[naverag]

The one day I could have seen it and it was 35min late! So no idea. I'm betting 3 though

Yep, 3 again today.

 

[Killingworth]

The 5.09 from Sheffield was cancelled today causing a fleet of taxis to be assembled and relatives summoned to drive over to the, airport.. Missed flights can have expensive repurcussins for business people who like to be able fly out and back in a day.

The 8.53 from the Airport was also cancelled, being the return working - and a train I sometimes use from Dore towards Grimsby.

If the 7.07 from Sheffield was only 3 carriages the usual 100 waiting at Dore woukd have had difficulty getting on. Any who opted to wait for the 8.08 will have found it was 33 minutes late and terminated 40 mimutes late at Piccadilly

We're told the South Pennine route is performing better than the Scottish and North Pennine routes. Today may have seen some leveling down.

 

[Jozhua]

I recently got a doubled up unit back to Manchester, after my outward trip being a short formed 2-car EMR at 5pm rush hour out of Oxford Road. I believe some were left on platforms at Piccadilly and possibly Stockport.

EMR used to be the better option, but if 6-cars can be relied upon, I shall start to use TPE more again.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Some short-forms today on Newcastle and Scarborough - think a 68 and set went tech earlier?

 

[yrreb]

Yes that's been booked 6 since at least 2016 (the corresponding 16:53 off the Airport used to be one option home for me) but like you say it's luck of the draw these days!

Yikes, the 17:19 off Picc is pretty horrible too if it's only three coaches

 

[Jamesrob637]

Yikes, the 17:19 off Picc is pretty horrible too if it's only three coaches

Not on Journey Check today so presumably 6.

 

[Killingworth]

Was on northbound XC at Newcastle this evening and noted a 185 terminating there instead of Edinburgh. Our guard very firmly and clearly announced 3 times that TPE passengers would have to pay £61 to reach Edinburgh or return to the platform and catch the following TPE service in an hour, apparently then on time . That Nova substituting 185 might otherwise have been providing 6 coaches for somewhere.

(At least 2 people in my carriage seemed to pay, one of whom feigned deep sleep just as the impending ticket inspection came into view! It didn't work.)

 

[Starmill]

Was on northbound XC at Newcastle this evening and noted a 185 terminating there instead of Edinburgh. Our guard very firmly and clearly announced 3 times that TPE passengers would have to pay £61 to reach Edinburgh or return to the platform and catch the following TPE service in an hour, apparently then on time . That Nova substituting 185 might otherwise have been providing 6 coaches for somewhere.

(At least 2 people in my carriage seemed to pay, one of whom feigned deep sleep just as the impending ticket inspection came into view! It didn't work.)

They could have gone to the ticket machine and procured a single for £44.30 in the time between trains. If they had a phone they could have done so on the actual train before the guard got to them.

Of course, a nice proportion of the £61 the guard charged will go to TPE. Had the guard chosen to charge £44.30 instead, which they would be quite entitled to, CrossCountry would almost certainly take home rather more revenue (although the guard themselves likely less).

 

[Killingworth]

They could have gone to the ticket machine and procured a single for £44.30 in the time between trains. If they had a phone they could have done so on the actual train before the guard got to them.

Of course, a nice proportion of the £61 the guard charged will go to TPE. Had the guard chosen to charge £44.30 instead, which they would be quite entitled to, CrossCountry would almost certainly take home rather more revenue (although the guard themselves likely less).

To be accurate, 9S13, the 185 13.24 from Lime Street, was terminated at Newcastle at 16.24.

What they were told on that train I don't know but there was no announcement on Platform 2 that I heard as to which train onward passengers should catch. Quite a number were already awaiting the XC 16.35 towards Aberdeen (which left at 16.39 after the train manager had made his 3 announcements) and the GR 16.42 for Edinburgh (also late and leaving at 16.50).

The next TPE for Edinburgh departed on time at 17.22. What fare was actually paid on the XC train I don't know. I heard no protest, but I found it amusing that the person opposite me appeared wide awake until seeing the impending ticket inspection. Feined slumber was broken by a rattle of the ticket machine on the hard back of the seat.

Comment on the numbers of commuters for Alnmouth belong in another thread, but the train was well filled.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Loads of 3-cars today on Cleethorpes to Airport and v-v. Best avoiding or taking Northern/EMR providing those are all 4-car

 

[Jamesrob637]

11:26 Cleethorpes to Airport has toilet issues today according to Journey Check. Presume this one is still one of those booked 3-car or has lightning struck twice and both units have defective loos?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Yikes, the 17:19 off Picc is pretty horrible too if it's only three coaches

Only 3 again today according to Journey Check. I wouldn't rely on consistent 6-car working until into Spring, maybe even May. Even then it may be a bit dicey at times! A few 185s appear to be covering for 5-car sets which may explain things somewhat. At least full cancellations are few if any. TPE won't (be able to) get away with this for much longer!

 

[Kieran1990]

44 train formation updates today... not a good start across the network today

 

[Jamesrob637]

44 train formation updates today... not a good start across the network today

I think some 185s are having to replace 68s and stock. Better to run a 3-car than cancel altogether: at least most people will have a pleasant journey and Twitter won't be rammed with complaints (just busy!)

 

[Jamesrob637]

18:26 Cleethorpes to Airport was 3-car today. Will this *ever* go over to 6, as it doesn't feature on the list Killingworth posted, or will it just be one of the last, in May? Doesn't make much sense as 6 though since it's east of Doncaster between 16:42 and 19:38, throughout the whole of the evening peak. I see it's booked 6 on Saturdays but footie (winter) and seaside (summer) traffic can be a major factor on weekends.

 

[Killingworth]

18:26 Cleethorpes to Airport was 3-car today. Will this *ever* go over to 6, as it doesn't feature on the list Killingworth posted, or will it just be one of the last, in May? Doesn't make much sense as 6 though since it's east of Doncaster between 16:42 and 19:38, throughout the whole of the evening peak. I see it's booked 6 on Saturdays but footie (winter) and seaside (summer) traffic can be a major factor on weekends.

As far as I can tell we're still some way from getting all the trains in the list I posted running consistently as 6 on every day of the week. I saw a 185 terminating in Newcastle last week instead of a Nova going on to Edinburgh, and a 185 departing for Manchester Airport. It depends very much on how quickly units like those can be released. I understood more were hoped to become 6 by May, but priorities change and at present North and Scottish routes are more in need.

 

[johnnychips]

18:26 Cleethorpes to Airport was 3-car today.

It was advertised at six on the big display board at Doncaster and actually got it right as to which end to get in for the airport if there had have been six, which they often don’t get right at Sheffield!

 

[Jamesrob637]

Wonder whether 06:26 Cleethorpes to Airport actually managed 6 today. I saw it was delayed at Sheffield so it passed Stockport 20 late. It wasn't on Journey Check but then nothing was so that's immaterial as I cannot see how everything managed to be normal. It managed 6 Monday to Thursday so to have been 6 on Friday when commuter numbers are down would be somewhat of an irony!

 

[Killingworth]

Wonder whether 06:26 Cleethorpes to Airport actually managed 6 today. I saw it was delayed at Sheffield so it passed Stockport 20 late. It wasn't on Journey Check but then nothing was so that's immaterial as I cannot see how everything managed to be normal. It managed 6 Monday to Thursday so to have been 6 on Friday when commuter numbers are down would be somewhat of an irony!

The previous 5.04 from Cleethorpes used to be 6 Monday-Thursday and regularly 3 on Fridays. Observation at Dore suggested numbers were possibly 40% down on Fridays - so which came first, the chicken or egg? Wharever, a lot are now used to working at home on Fridays. Apparently it helped to get more units serviced.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The previous 5.04 from Cleethorpes used to be 6 Monday-Thursday and regularly 3 on Fridays. Observation at Dore suggested numbers were possibly 40% down on Fridays - so which came first, the chicken or egg? Wharever, a lot are now used to working at home on Fridays. Apparently it helped to get more units serviced.

I should have written that it didn't manage 6 Monday to Thursday though I think anyone who read that would have got the gist

 

[Jamesrob637]

Is 08:05 Glasgow Central to Liverpool Lime Street a double 185 today? It's just passed me between Penrith and Carlisle and I could swear it was more than 3 coaches. Might be my imagination!

 

[BHXDMT]

Is 08:05 Glasgow Central to Liverpool Lime Street a double 185 today? It's just passed me between Penrith and Carlisle and I could swear it was more than 3 coaches. Might be my imagination!

It was indeed, it's now gone onto a Scarborough diagram.

 

[johnnychips]

Yesterday the 1611 from Sheffield to Manchester had 25 standing in the front three coaches while the rear three was about half full. Clearly passengers aren’t expecting six yet, or think the rear three might be locked out.

 

[Jamesrob637]

It was indeed, it's now gone onto a Scarborough diagram.

Which Scarborough diagrams are 6 then? Thought they were all either 3 (1×185) or 5 (Nova 3)

 

[SteveyBee131]

Yesterday the 1611 from Sheffield to Manchester had 25 standing in the front three coaches while the rear three was about half full. Clearly passengers aren’t expecting six yet, or think the rear three might be locked out.

Probably because they often are.

 

[Killingworth]

Yesterday the 1611 from Sheffield to Manchester had 25 standing in the front three coaches while the rear three was about half full. Clearly passengers aren’t expecting six yet, or think the rear three might be locked out.

Could very well be conditioned behaviour. Saw one eastbound through Dore this afternoon with front 3 well filled (including first) and so few in the rear 3 that at first I thought it was locked out.

Going to Manchester you might prefer to be in the front 3 at Piccadilly for a quick get away, but why stand when there are so many seats available?

Coming from Manchester you'd expect the rear half to be full as it's normally picked up a lot at much busier Piccadilly. Unless it had run from the airport as 6 when the lead coach after Piccadilly would have been at the barrier end at the Airport.

However, and I'll pause a minute for those catching up at the back, the answer is much simpler. They can't be sure they'll run 6 coach trains. All booked seats are in the front 3. So all this proves is they're booking up well and if you spot it's a 6er head for the rear 3. That's even if you have a booked seat if you want space.

In the mornings we see this happening at Dore. The front 3 are often as good as fully booked. Season ticket holders crowd to get into the 4th carriage in the second unit.

You'd think someone would come up with a bright idea to put a corridor connection betweeen the units so the load could be equalised.

 

[BHXDMT]

Which Scarborough diagrams are 6 then? Thought they were all either 3 (1×185) or 5 (Nova 3)

Probably covering for a Nova 3, it showed as a 5 coach service (ABCDE).

Probably because they often are.

It's become far less frequent, can't remember the last time I heard of one being locked out in recent weeks.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Are any Redcar doubles or still single awaiting transition to Nova 3?

 

[Killingworth]

TPE are now publishing weekly updates on performance. On the South Pennine route there was only one train short formed in the week commencing 23rd February and they managed 83.54% PPM against a target of 89.8%.

Other routes were rather worse, but the weather has been against them.

 

[Jamesrob637]

TPE are now publishing weekly updates on performance. On the South Pennine route there was only one train short formed in the week commencing 23rd February and they managed 83.54% PPM against a target of 89.8%.

Other routes were rather worse, but the weather has been against them.

Apart from 06:26 Cleethorpes to Airport never manages to be 6 more than 3 out of 5 days a week, 2 being more the norm since the second 185 usually finds itself further north subbing for an absent 397 or Nova 3?!

I smell a rat...