TPE services allocated for Double units

Discussion in 'Allocations, Diagrams & Timetables' started by Jamesrob637, 11 Jul 2019.

  1. Mex I can

    Mex I can Member

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    I’ve seen lots of these 6 car 185s going through Mexborough and they are usually nearly empty. They are a complete waste of space for the majority of the route.
     
  2. SteveyBee131

    SteveyBee131 Member

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    I'm sure I'm not the only one who would beg to differ!
     
  3. Mex I can

    Mex I can Member

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    Which bit of my statement do you beg to differ with? I’ve seen many double units with one unit closed off and I’ve seen many double units with a handful of people scattered around. Come to think of it, the three car units don’t often look packed out.

    I don’t get to work before 8.00 and I leave by 16.30, maybe the ones before and after that time are rammed. One thing I have noticed is that they frequently get held up by the Doncaster and Adwick stoppers, that must be a right pain.
     
  4. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    It certainly is a right pain when westbound TPE's are delayed coming through from Doncaster. On time departures from Sheffield are frequently missed making the Hope Valley stopper late far too often.

    The rear unit will be locked out due to lack of crew to operate selective door operating procedures, necessary at Habrough and Dore. The 7.14 and 8.14 departures from Dore certainly need more than 3 coaches. Over 100 board the 7.14 and if 3 coaches are available some won't get aboard. I've often had to stand on the 8.14, unable to reach my booked seat.

    However, I've used the trains towards the east and agree that 6 coaches are very generous after Sheffield, and usually generous in a 3 car. It's pleasant to get a choice of seats, just getting a seat west of Sheffield has been a luxury until recently.
     
  5. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    The SDO issue needs resolving PDQ.

    Tonight's 18.18 from Piccadilly didn't stop at Dore because there was a problem with the doors. The announcement of non-stopping apparently not heard by many until passing Grindleford. Not great with the car parked at Dore, or a relative waiting to make a pick up.
     
  6. BHXDMT

    BHXDMT Member

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    It's all good and well saying they're not needed, but there is nowhere on the route they can drop off without causing serious timetabling problems. 6 are absolutely required between Manchester and Doncaster at the least, but you can't just block a busy through station while attaching/detaching, so they run all the way to Cleethorpes instead.

    Pretty much all trains from Friday afternoon through to Sunday evening (with the exception of extremely early and late ones) get very busy and 3 just is not enough. Peak times on weekdays is the same (1500-1900). The only reason a train would be running through Mexborough with the rear 3 locked out of use, is if there is no cab to cab communication (or some other fault), which is required to call at Meadowhall.
     
    Last edited: 7 Feb 2020
  7. RailWonderer

    RailWonderer Member

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    How long has the 15:03 ex-Hull (1K24) been a 6 car 185? I’m in the rear coach and they’re manually locking out the doors in the rear 2 coaches.
    The 16:30 ex-Piccadilly the same.
     
    Last edited: 7 Feb 2020
  8. CHAPS2034

    CHAPS2034 Member

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    Stockport is the ideal place to get a new hat and visit the hat museum...:E
    https://www.stockport.gov.uk/topic/hat-works
     
  9. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    "Hat Works Museum temporary closure
    The Hat Works Museum is closed to visitors for refurbishment."

    A coincidence?
     
  10. CHAPS2034

    CHAPS2034 Member

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    But the shop is still open 3 days a week...:D
     
  11. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    Are all South TPE services booked for doubles now, even if the reality is almost the contrary?
     
  12. BHXDMT

    BHXDMT Member

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    No. But the diagrams change on 17th February, so potentially they might be then.
     
  13. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    Found on a Facebook page on 11th December, intended 6 car trains from December timetable change. Many were postponed but most are now running? It seems more services should also be becoming 6 car.

    "In an email received by FoDaTS today TPE say “things have not been where we would have liked them to have been in recent weeks and we unreservedly apologise for any disruption that has been faced.”

    They have advised us that they are planning to run a lot more 6 carriage trains on their South Pennine services from Sunday 15th December, with more to be introduced during 2020. Please understand they're doing their best to introduce a lot of brand new trains very quickly so things may slip from the plan, but what follows looks to be a big improvement.

    “The list of the six carriage TransPennine Express services on your route from 15 December 2019.
    A few gaps here and there, but these will be completed as more 185s are released as we enter 2020. Plan is to operate six carriages to/from Piccadilly and then detach/connect three carriages there (due to other services not all six carriage trains can fit into Manchester Airport). Customers for the Airport will be advised/supported.
    Hopefully during 2020/21 we can get a few more to stop at Dore & Totley.


    We're sure the majority of long suffering users would put reliability of existing services ahead of more stops, welcome though they'd be. Firstly that the service actually runs, secondly that it runs to time, and finally that it has enough seats for all. Frankly, we can't easily see how all three can be achieved and leave much time for extra stops, but a 9.14 westbound would be nice. The following list is NOT the full service, just the ones TPE intend to run with 6 coaches. Please check the timetable for precise timings and updates for any late changes.

    Monday to Friday
    0505 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    0536 Doncaster Manchester Airport
    0626 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    0729 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1226 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1326 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1426 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1526 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1626 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    2026 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    0554 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    0653 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    0753 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    0853 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    0953 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1453 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1553 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1653 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1753 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1953 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    2153 Manchester Airport Doncaster

    Saturday
    0536 Doncaster Manchester Airport
    0626 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    0729 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    0826 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    0926 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1026 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1126 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1226 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1326 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1426 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1526 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1626 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1826 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1926 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    2026 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    0554 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    0653 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    0753 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    0853 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    0953 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1053 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1153 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1253 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1353 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1453 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1553 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1653 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1753 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1853 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1953 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    2153 Manchester Airport Doncaster

    Sunday
    1026 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1126 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1226 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1326 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1426 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1526 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1626 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1726 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1826 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    1926 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    2026 Cleethorpes Manchester Airport
    2116 Cleethorpes Sheffield
    0956 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1055 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1156 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1356 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1456 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1556 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1656 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1756 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1856 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    1956 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    2055 Manchester Airport Cleethorpes
    2156 Manchester Airport Doncaster

    FoDaTS, based on information from TPE, 11.12.2019"
     
  14. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    So on Saturdays, 13:53 Airport to Cleethorpes is 6-car, but it leaves 3 behind at Cleethorpes as the return 17:26 to Airport and 20:53 to Cleethorpes are only 3-car?
     
  15. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    By the way Journey Check has been completely bereft of formation updates all day today, so for 06:26 Cleethorpes to Airport to trundle past me as 3-car was only half a surprise.
     
  16. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    Similarly, are all Manchester to Hull services booked for doubles now, even if the reality is almost the contrary? Or at least from Monday?
     
  17. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    Journey Check is showing 0 short-forms today - how much of a pinch of salt can I take that with?
     
  18. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    A Hull service is now on as 3-car rather than 6. Looks like an out-and-back too, so only effectively one train. However, for only that one train to be short-formed in an entire weekday?? Good on TPE if true though, albeit a minor inconvenience for some commuters.
     
  19. hibtastic

    hibtastic Member

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    Definitely noticed the increased 6-car Hull services lately. What an improvement
     
  20. wellhouse

    wellhouse Member

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    So, when the 1705 6 car ex Hull reached Huddersfield this evening (14/2), all passengers in the rear set were asked to move to the front set, owing to the absence of a second guard.

    I presume this is because of stops at the short platforms between Huddersfield and Stalybridge, but why does SDO need a guard in the rear set?
     
    Last edited: 15 Feb 2020
  21. SteveyBee131

    SteveyBee131 Member

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    It doesn't. The SDO hasn't been energised yet as not all crews are trained to use it. They likely won't be either, until the training program for the new trains is complete.
     
  22. johnnychips

    johnnychips Established Member

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    I think the passengers aren’t used to it yet. Yesterday the 1811 (?) from Sheffield to Manchester had the first three cars full and standing while the rear had lots of empty seats.
     
  23. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    No short-forms according to Journey Check. Has this third 397 plus additional 802s allowed literally everything that's 6-car today, to actually be 6-car?
     
  24. naverag

    naverag Member

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    No. This thread's most-mentioned service, the 0626 Cleethorpes (0808 Sheffield) towards Manchester was 3-car.
     
  25. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    Thanks. Can only provide a live update one day this week (tomorrow) due to work pattern. Next week live all week once again. JC is clearly still to be taken with a massive pinch of salt.
     
  26. Joe96

    Joe96 Member

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    The 8:43 Newcastle to Manchester Airport is a 6 car today
     
  27. yrreb

    yrreb Member

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    The worst one I've seen is the one an hour before this (07:08 from Sheffield) which has always been booked as a six car anyway, but whether it is or not on the day is another question.
     
  28. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    Some afternoon/evening ones today are 3 vice 6 :'(
     
  29. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    The one day I could have seen it and it was 35min late! So no idea. I'm betting 3 though :D
     
  30. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    Yes that's been booked 6 since at least 2016 (the corresponding 16:53 off the Airport used to be one option home for me) but like you say it's luck of the draw these days!
     

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