TPE split ticket delay repay problems

[mrmartin]

Having a complete nightmare with this (especially considering it takes them multiple weeks to reply to each email from customer relations).

I had a split ticket Euston to Carlisle, changing at Manchester. Avanti was on time, but TPE was ridiculously broken and ended up causing a very bad and poorly communicated delay.

They have refunded the TPE part but keep telling me too to avanti for the other part. Are they liable to refund me for the Avanti part considering it was one journey and they caused all the delay? What's the best option here?

 

[splitfare]

I'm not an expert on this matter but a keen user of split ticketing. I believe one disadvantage with split ticketing is that you turn one contract to get you from A to Z, into two or more contracts - e.g. A to B and B to Z. If the first contract

(Euston - Manchester)​

is fulfilled within the delay repay criteria for this section then I believe you have no right to claim. The second contract is the one that incurred a delay and I believe you are only entitled to delay repay on the ticket covering this portion of your journey (unless National Rail Conditions have provisions other than standard contract law).

 

[gray1404]

Ignore the last post. That is a total load of rubbish and contains a lot of incorrect information.

The National Rail Conditions of Travel (the contract you enter into with the train companies) permits you to use one or more tickets to complete your journey. Therefore, split ticketing is allowed and you can use more then one ticket to make the one journey. In your case you made one journey from Euston to Carlisle. That is regardless of the fact you changed trains at Manchester or used two tickets to make that journey. Therefore, delay repay is payable based on both of the tickets you used and not just the one between Manchester and Carlisle.

It is however important to accept if you had a valid connection at Manchester in order to be covered for delay repay purposes. By that I mean, that you allowed enough time between the scheduled arrival time at Manchester Piccadilly of your first train and the scheduled departure time of your train leaving Manchester Piccadilly. This is 10 minutes. Assuming you allowed at least 10 minutes then TPE need to compensate you based on both tickets. They are wrong to tell you to claim from Avanti as it was not a depay to an Avanti service that caused you arrive at your destination late.

You therefore need to appeal your delay repay claim with TPE. You should explain that you made one journey from London Euston to Carlisle. The National Rail Conditions of Travel permit you to use multiple tickets to complete your journey and that TPE are liable to compensate you based on the total value of your 2 tickets.

If they still refuse then you can make a formal complaint to Customer Services before taking your complaint to the Rail Ombudsman. There is an ongoing issue at TPE and see are seeing cases on this forum of TPE incorrectly refusing to pay out on split tickets. This practice needs to stop. The NRCoT is very clear and this practice on the part of TPE is unlawful.

 

[mrmartin]

Yes, I agree the other post isn't correct. Yep connection times were correct as was booked through trainsplit. Had a 30 minute wait IIRC which is more than enough time.

I've replied with the items you've put here. What makes this so painful is that each (totally wrong reply) from them takes nearly a month. Obviously they have serious issues with their franchise in general, but such a terrible wait for customer service replies is not helpful.

 

[gray1404]

Yes, bad service in the first place giving rise to the need to claim, a wait for an incorrect delay repay decision then another wait for the outcome of an appeal. If they still get it wrong, as you say, an excessive wait for Customer Service to get it right.

 

[Hadders]

I'm not an expert on this matter but a keen user of split ticketing. I believe one disadvantage with split ticketing is that you turn one contract to get you from A to Z, into two or more contracts - e.g. A to B and B to Z. If the first contract

(Euston - Manchester)​

is fulfilled within the delay repay criteria for this section then I believe you have no right to claim. The second contract is the one that incurred a delay and I believe you are only entitled to delay repay on the ticket covering this portion of your journey (unless National Rail Conditions have provisions other than standard contract law).

This is incorrect. This forum prides itself of the level of knowledge it is able to offer people who ask for help and although I'm sure you mean well posts like this are unhelpful.

You might like to have a read of some previous threads on this subject, and have a read of the National Rail Conditions of Travel. You would also be very welcome to attend a Fares Workshop where this sort of thing can be discussed.

 

[splitfare]

Thanks for everyone correcting my error so may I tap into the knowledge that this forum provides. Using the example of the journey the OP made but in a slightly different way - If I was to travel from London to Carlisle on two tickets London - Manchester and Manchester - Carlisle and stopped off in Manchester for six hours to visit friends, does the National Conditions allow me to claim delay repay for the total journey if I experience a delay on the Manchester - Carlisle train only. If so, great. If not, what is the break point.

 

[gray1404]

Thanks for everyone correcting my error so may I tap into the knowledge that this forum provides. Using the example of the journey the OP made but in a slightly different way - If I was to travel from London to Carlisle on two tickets London - Manchester and Manchester - Carlisle and stopped off in Manchester for six hours to visit friends, does the National Conditions allow me to claim delay repay for the total journey if I experience a delay on the Manchester - Carlisle train only. If so, great. If not, what is the break point.

You should start a new thread to ask that question. Once you have done that I shall happily respond. This thread is to offer advise to the OP on their ongoing dispute with TPE and we don't want to confuse things for them.

 

[mrmartin]

Well after another two weeks, get the following reply:

After further investigation I can see we have issued you the full compensation you are due for your TransPennine Express journey. I can see you travelled with all advance single tickets which you can do as long as they cover the full journey.

If you incurred delays on your Avanti service, you need to make a claim for compensation with them. We will not compensate for another train operating companies delays. I understand your confusion as you say you used all your tickets to make 1 journey but as they are individually priced and with 2 train companies we will only compensate for our journey.

 

[hkstudent]

Well after another two weeks, get the following reply:

TPE is talking crap again. Which means that you need to do a formal complain as suggested by gray1404 or do one more appeal if you wish to.

 

[Hadders]

The Delay Repay section of TPE's Passenger Charter states that they will pay compensation for the whole journey if you use a combination of tickets.

I think you need to write back to them clearly stating that you made one journey using a combination of tickets as allowed by the NRCoT and expect compensation in accordance with their Passenger Charter.

https://tpexpress.co.uk/~/media/passengercharterjan20.pdf?la=en

Delay Repay
When you have been delayed for 15 minutes or more arriving at your
destination station, you are entitled to claim Delay Repay. The level of
compensation that you are due is explained below:
........

If you have a combination of tickets for your journey, we will compensate
you for your whole journey.

 

[mrmartin]

Just an update on this - TPE have deadlocked it and Rail Ombudsman now investigating. Will let everyone know what they feedback with.

 

[gray1404]

Dreadful service from TPE. They really should not be issuing a deadlock letter when you are rightfully entitled to compensation.

 

[yorkie]

I'm not an expert on this matter but a keen user of split ticketing. I believe one disadvantage with split ticketing is that you turn one contract to get you from A to Z, into two or more contracts - e.g. A to B and B to Z. If the first contract

(Euston - Manchester)​

is fulfilled within the delay repay criteria for this section then I believe you have no right to claim. The second contract is the one that incurred a delay and I believe you are only entitled to delay repay on the ticket covering this portion of your journey (unless National Rail Conditions have provisions other than standard contract law).

As others have said, this is incorrect.

The NRCoT does specifically allow you to combine two or more tickets for one journey.

See: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-of-number-of-tickets-held-mythbuster.198338/

Compensation for delays is usually paid when customers experience a delay on their full journey, regardless of the number of tickets held

 

[Hadders]

They haven't even been consistent with their own Passenger Charter.

 

[mrmartin]

Got a reply from TPE via ombudsman:

"Apologies, as the customer hadn't provided a booking confirmation I wasn't aware it was made in one booking.

Therefore, I am willing to offer the remaining amount, which is £x.,"

I don't think it's correct that it has to be made in one booking? If I did two bookings to buy advance tickets I would still be eligible for delay repay (though I did do them in one)?

Seems even the people.liasing with the ombudsman don't have a clue.

 

[_toommm_]

I don't think it's correct that it has to be made in one booking? If I did two bookings to buy advance tickets I would still be eligible for delay repay (though I did do them in one)?

No, there’s no requirement to make it in one booking. It may help in some circumstances, but it is absolutely not a requirement.

 

[yorkie]

Got a reply from TPE via ombudsman:

"Apologies, as the customer hadn't provided a booking confirmation I wasn't aware it was made in one booking.

Therefore, I am willing to offer the remaining amount, which is £x.,"

I don't think it's correct that it has to be made in one booking? If I did two bookings to buy advance tickets I would still be eligible for delay repay (though I did do them in one)?

Seems even the people.liasing with the ombudsman don't have a clue.

TPE are making it up (as usual).

Both TPE and the Ombudsman lack knowledgeable people. The good news is that there is no shortage of knowledge on this forum.

The Ombudsman refused to meet representatives of the forum when we offered to help increase their level of knowledge.

 

[mrmartin]

Will see what they come back with. The ombudsman lady seems to have a 2 law degrees, which is somewhat impressive but I think more train knowledge would be more helpful!

 

[yorkie]

Will see what they come back with. The ombudsman lady seems to have a 2 law degrees, which is somewhat impressive but I think more train knowledge would be more helpful!

We'd be happy to run free fares workshops for Rail Ombudsman staff if they change their minds.

 

[Hadders]

A law degree is a useful qualification but isn’t necessary to understand the National Rail Conditions of Travel.

 

[mrmartin]

Managed to get the claim + £20 closed successfully. Gave up arguing the point as they insist they (TPE) need to be on the same booking reference to be a "journey".

Must say ombudsman was extremely efficient service.

 

[416GSi]

Managed to get the claim + £20 closed successfully. Gave up arguing the point as they insist they (TPE) need to be on the same booking reference to be a "journey".

Must say ombudsman was extremely efficient service.

It's worrying that TPE can continue to make up the requirement that a journey needs to be on one booking, and that the ombudsman has not put them right.

Good result for you, I'm so glad you didn't give up.

 

[mrmartin]

Well, to be fair it was closed in mediation where the ombudsman basically just forwards emails around from each other. I didn't see the point to take it to the point where the Ombusdman actually rules.

Very poor service from TPE IMO. They were replying to the ombudsman in literally minutes, vs around a month for their normal CS team, who wouldn't even read the email before doing a copy and paste reply.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's worrying that TPE can continue to make up the requirement that a journey needs to be on one booking, and that the ombudsman has not put them right.

It doesn't sound like that to me. It sounds like TPE have come up with some bluster to cover up their mistake- it'll be a cold say in hell before a railway ticketing employee admits a mistake- and the Ombudsman have just ticked it off as the customer has got what they wanted.

I'm having a similar issue and I booked both tickets in one booking actually through TPE, but as it's about a fiver I'm struggling to find the will to fight again. If this social distancing malarkey hits the island I might well pick it up, I'll have time on my hands.