Trademarked Names for franchises?

[Jorge Da Silva]

This is a branch off from the West Coast Franchise thread, sort of. Someone posted a link to a page which shows London Midland & Scottish Railway trademarked by the Secretary of State for Transport. I then found a list of other trademarks which also shows LNER (now used on the East Coast) and Great Eastern Railway. Could these be used in future franchises??

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=501407&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00003270382

 

[Hadders]

There are a load of other registered trademarks owned by the DfT that go back to BR days (and much further). These include:

InterCity
South West Trains
Flying Scotsman
Thameslink
Great Eastern
Highland Chieftain
Great Western

As I understand it the DfT will allow the registered trademark to be used by a rail franchisee. Interestingly Stagecoach were the trademark holder of South West Trains but it is now held by First MTR despite them not using that name themselves.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

There are a load of other registered trademarks owned by the DfT that go back to BR days (and much further). These include:

InterCity
South West Trains
Flying Scotsman
Thameslink
Great Eastern
Highland Chieftain
Great Western

As I understand it the DfT will allow the registered trademark to be used by a rail franchisee. Interestingly Stagecoach were the trademark holder of South West Trains but it is now held by First MTR despite them not using that name themselves.

Isn't InterCity now being used on Scotrail? Interestingly all the trademarks you listed are/have been in use.
Thanks for the info

 

[dcs34]

I would speculate that this trademarking also gives them control over the use of these names in merchandising and advertising

 

[Rail Blues]

Isn't InterCity now being used on Scotrail? Interestingly all the trademarks you listed are/have been in use.
Thanks for the info

I think it is banded 'Inter 7 City'

 

[takno]

I think it is banded 'Inter 7 City'

And then it's pronounced the "inter" is silent...

 

[InterCity:125]

Could these be used in future franchises??

Future franchises where?

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

Future franchises where?

I mean future franchise renewals.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Future franchises where?

In Britain.
The whole point of these trademarks is so they can be used, and also to prevent them being used inappropriately.

 

[DarloRich]

Could these be used in future franchises??

of course.

I would speculate that this trademarking also gives them control over the use of these names in merchandising and advertising

and means a fee must be paid to use them

 

[A Challenge]

and means a fee must be paid to use them

Means a fee may be charged, if the DfT wants to

 

[pdeaves]

Means a fee may be charged, if the DfT wants to

And the fee could be £0 (which amounts to the same thing but presents differently)

 

[frediculous]

Unusually though, the name and logo of Network SouthEast is owned by the NSE Railway Society, rather than the government.

 

[pt_mad]

If the trademark is 'London Midland and Scottish Railway', could someone else use the name 'London Midland and Scottish'?

 

[InterCity:125]

What about London midland and Scottish rail

 

[pt_mad]

What about Virjin Trains?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Means a fee may be charged, if the DfT wants to

If they do the names won't get used. It was that approach that resulted in the sad death of the InterCity brand.

 

[Journeyman]

There are a load of other registered trademarks owned by the DfT that go back to BR days (and much further). These include:

InterCity

After 1994, and until use of the brand disappeared, the INTERCITY wording on trains appeared with the R-in-a-circle "registered trade mark" symbol after it.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

What about London midland and Scottish rail

ScotRail probably yes as it is used by every ScotRail franchisee since 1997. London Midland probably not as it was chosen by the train operator and not the DfT and can be used for another train operator (even open access). GNER name was proposed for resurrection in 2014 but was rejected in 2016.

 

[sgraIRL]

What about Virjin Trains?

In trademark law, confusing similarity is a test used during the examination process to determine whether a trademark conflicts with another, earlier mark, and also in trademark infringement proceedings to determine whether the use of a mark infringes a registered trademark.

In many jurisdictions this test has been superseded by the concepts of similarity and likelihood of confusion, due to the harmonizing effects of the Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confusing_similarity

 

[Hadders]

Here are some links to trade marks held by the Secretary of State for Transport.

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=266494&domain=1&page=1
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=451300&domain=1
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=451306&domain=1
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=451311&domain=1
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=501407&domain=1

 

[Grinner]

Interesting, just had a wee look around that site. ScotRail trademarks are owned by the Scottish Government (or technically, the Scottish Ministers):

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmowner/page/search?id=77371&domain=1&app=0&mark=UK00002468429

 

[Dougal2345]

It's never occurred to me to ask before, but do model railway manufacturers like Hornby have to pay fees and royalties for producing models of other companies' designs and logos?

 

[Journeyman]

It's never occurred to me to ask before, but do model railway manufacturers like Hornby have to pay fees and royalties for producing models of other companies' designs and logos?

If they're trademarks currently in use, they need the permission of the owners, who could charge a fee, but I'm not sure they do much of the time. Senior management at Caledonian Sleeper were rather annoyed when a Class 67 was released in their livery, as Hornby apparently hadn't sought permission first.

 

[dk1]

There where rumours that Greater Anglia (awful name in my opinion) was to be renamed as Great Eastern in line with the current DfT plan for names to continue for future franchise changes with the operating company only appearing as small print.

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

There where rumours that Greater Anglia (awful name in my opinion) was to be renamed as Great Eastern in line with the current DfT plan for names to continue for future franchise changes with the operating company only appearing as small print.

Where did you here this? It’s quiet interesting as I prefer it to be called Great Eastern Railway in line with its predecessor (until 1921). The DfT seems to be picking names for Franchisees so it doesn’t have to rebrand them. I am in favour of GER coming back.

 

[Frontera2]

There are a load of other registered trademarks owned by the DfT that go back to BR days (and much further). These include:

As I understand it the DfT will allow the registered trademark to be used by a rail franchisee. Interestingly Stagecoach were the trademark holder of South West Trains but it is now held by First MTR despite them not using that name themselves.

Not true - DfT have always held the trademark for SWT, which is why there wasn't the urgency to remove the name from the side of the trains...

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00001566017

 

[dk1]

Where did you here this? It’s quiet interesting as I prefer it to be called Great Eastern Railway in line with its predecessor (until 1921). The DfT seems to be picking names for Franchisees so it doesn’t have to rebrand them. I am in favour of GER coming back.

It's been doing the rounds internally at GA for a while. It maybe GER but referred to in conversation as GE as trains at the South end of the route are still called by ex-Anglia staff. Then again, when it comes to rumours, handing back the keys in August was prolific

 

[Hadders]

Not true - DfT have always held the trademark for SWT, which is why there wasn't the urgency to remove the name from the side of the trains...

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00001566017

To clarify the Owner of the South West Trains Registered Trademark is the Secretary of State for Transport but the current License Holder is First MTR South Western Trains.

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00002165215