Train driver photographed reading newspaper

[Flamingo]

Bad railway image aside, the trouble is what an outsider and the media may perceive to be dangerous may not actually be so.

That's true, anybody else remember the "Evening Standard" running a front-page expose few years ago of FGW's "dangerous" practice of re-using the brake pads on a 180 that still had wear left on them.

Some idiot journo had been told by Kwikfit not to do this on his car, and thought the same applied to a train. :roll:

Still, it gave them a chance to run another story beginning "FGW, Britain's worst TOC..."

I remember that evening we didn't give out Standards in 1st class.

 

[David Dunning]

What gets me most of all about this is once again, the media are digging at the railways and their 'level of safety' left, right and centre. I'm sure hundreds of people travel using their cars and handsfree mobiles everyday, but do the tabloids report them?
.

Yes of course they report them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-399473/Mobile-phone-death-driver-jailed-years.html

 

[passmore]

Yes of course they report them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-399473/Mobile-phone-death-driver-jailed-years.html

With respect, that article was published nearly 5 years ago and refers to a death involving someone talking on a mobile.

How many do you reckon still drive around on mobiles or handsfree systems since then and how many articles have been published covering every incident?

I think you'll find the ratio is slightly lower then had it been a train driver instead.

 

[TDK]

Yes of course they report them.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-399473/Mobile-phone-death-driver-jailed-years.html

I saw this on the TV I think it was on motorway cops or something, in fact the mail does it again, the said radio communication device was a radio and not a mobile, it took 3 interviews I believe to get the driver to agree that he had attempted to use the keypad, the report from the mail does not accurately describe the incident that I saw on TV. However, the driver of the truck deserves his mild sentance for driving withour care an attention. Going back to the OP and the responses, firstly photographer enthusiasts can at times be a pain for driver's using their flash, this cause a driver to avert his attention from what he is doing, this does not get reported in the mail and is a breach of railway byelaws as drivers' do not usually report the incidents. Secondly there is no excuse for reading anything except you diagram or maybe the repair book in a driving cab and this driver if he was reading a newspaper whilst the train was moving knows full well it is against rule book rules and if he looses his job has himself to blame. It isn't a mistake but a pre meditated breach of the rules, forgetting to put whites up is not premeditated but a genuine mistake as is a spad or any other accidental incident - this is why this incident will be treated totally differently from other railway incidents.

 

[jon0844]

The problem is that loads of people break laws on the road every day, and so it's hard to write a big story that people will read. From a newspaper point of view, there's no real point in doing a story each day about someone caught/seen on a mobile phone while driving - especially if it's such a big problem that many readers may also do it!

But if you had a story about a train driver, or an airline pilot, then it is fairly unique and of value editorially. The Daily Mail does of course love the controversial outrage stories as they get loads of hits from both those who ARE outraged and those who are outraged by the Daily Mail. Either way, it's another unique visitor that ensures they continue to make a **** load of money from advertising.

 

[Oswyntail]

When we have a thread about poor lorry driving - and, yes, it does happen - we have the trucker members on here closing ranks and defending their colleagues, because no one understands how lorries/rules/drivers work. The same has been true of threads about, inter alia, pilots, teachers, IT professionals, vicars etc etc. Here we have another, with railway professionals closing ranks and, disturbingly, saying we should not comment on things here because we could be excluded from stations in pursuit of our interests. However, all these groups should appreciate that a) some of their members do wrong things and b) it is in the public interest to ensure these things do not happen.
The facts: a picture has been published, that may show some wrong-doing; this is under investigation, quite rightly, and the person under investigation has been suspended, again quite rightly, and with no implication about innocence or guilt; if he is guilty, he will receive an appropriate punishment, if innocent he will not. The end.

 

[jon0844]

The drivers of tomorrow will of course make sure they read their newspapers on an iPad.

I would LOVE to find out that the driver was reading the Daily Mail. I think the paper might then get confused and explode.

 

[passmore]

When we have a thread about poor lorry driving - and, yes, it does happen - we have the trucker members on here closing ranks and defending their colleagues, because no one understands how lorries/rules/drivers work. The same has been true of threads about, inter alia, pilots, teachers, IT professionals, vicars etc etc. Here we have another, with railway professionals closing ranks and, disturbingly, saying we should not comment on things here because we could be excluded from stations in pursuit of our interests. However, all these groups should appreciate that a) some of their members do wrong things and b) it is in the public interest to ensure these things do not happen.
The facts: a picture has been published, that may show some wrong-doing; this is under investigation, quite rightly, and the person under investigation has been suspended, again quite rightly, and with no implication about innocence or guilt; if he is guilty, he will receive an appropriate punishment, if innocent he will not. The end.

The end of what, the debate or the enquiry?

I think you'll find many more people might have an opinion on this. I have an opinion that he should not be sacked but that a full investigation should be carried out. I disagree that this means that photographers should be banned from stations simply because one appears to have turned 'grass'.

 

[Turbocharger]

Where people are involved mistakes do happen from time to time for whatever reason in all professions and criticising someone over a simple mistake is not on imo.

Agreed yes, they do happen. And I certainly hope this forum doesn't lose any members due to this thread, or indeed any comments I have made.

In a safety critical industry such as railways, I don't believe reporting mistakes is snitching or telling tales, but vital to ensuring that safety for everyone.

If TOC staff do not agree with that, and happy to let trivial things go unreported, then I will bow to their experience and judgment.

 

[GB]

In a safety critical industry such as railways, I don't believe reporting mistakes is snitching or telling tales, but vital to ensuring that safety for everyone.

Niether do I. However if you are going to report something it should be to the relevent people...not the media just to make a quick buck as most people seem to do.

 

[falcon]

Would it have been Blackmail if the photographer had gone to the TOC first and asked if they were interested in buying the sole copyright of a photo he had taken. "It's a lovely shot of a train coming out of a tunnel,here have a look"

 

[Roylang]

How many do you reckon still drive around on mobiles or handsfree systems since then and how many articles have been published covering every incident?

And why would they write a story about the legal use of a handsfree kit?

I know and understand the point you are making, but quoting a perfectly legal action does not help.

 

[Oswyntail]

The end of what, the debate or the enquiry?

I think you'll find many more people might have an opinion on this. I have an opinion that he should not be sacked but that a full investigation should be carried out. I disagree that this means that photographers should be banned from stations simply because one appears to have turned 'grass'.

The end of the facts of the case as we know them. The enquiry must continue, and the "debate" on here will continue long after everyone here has forgotten what it is about. Sacking or not depends on the rules and his record, I should imagine

 

[90019]

When we have a thread about poor lorry driving - and, yes, it does happen - we have the trucker members on here closing ranks and defending their colleagues, because no one understands how lorries/rules/drivers work.

The last time we had one of them, people were very quick to criticise the truck driver and say how they thought he should be punished, even though it turned out to be the car driver at fault.

If it turns out that someone has chosen to deliberately flaunt the rules and gets caught doing so, then they get no sympathy from me, regardless of what they're doing.

The facts: a picture has been published, that may show some wrong-doing; this is under investigation, quite rightly, and the person under investigation has been suspended, again quite rightly, and with no implication about innocence or guilt; if he is guilty, he will receive an appropriate punishment, if innocent he will not. The end.

Exactly.

 

[passmore]

And why would they write a story about the legal use of a handsfree kit?

I know and understand the point you are making, but quoting a perfectly legal action does not help.

News to me. I was always taught never to use a mobile, handsfree or otherwise, in my cab.

If its legal, then I apologise for using it as an example.

 

[David Dunning]

With respect, that article was published nearly 5 years ago and refers to a death involving someone talking on a mobile.

How many do you reckon still drive around on mobiles or handsfree systems since then and how many articles have been published covering every incident?

I think you'll find the ratio is slightly lower then had it been a train driver instead.

You're right that one was a while back but and not quite the same thing.
This is ...

2009
http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/4670102.Coach_driver_photographed_reading_at_the_wheel/
2010
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/841005-driver-caught-eating-cereal-on-m25

You did say in your original post I'm sure hundreds of people travel using their cars and handsfree mobiles everyday, but do the tabloids report them?
The answer is.... If they are caught in the same way as the train driver is alleged to have been.... then Yes the media reports them.

 

[passmore]

I don't want to stray off topic too much, but I was merely trying to highlight the fact that distractions to car drivers don't get as bad a negative press as distractions in other forms of transport.

 

[David Dunning]

I don't want to stray off topic too much, but I was merely trying to highlight the fact that distractions to car drivers don't get as bad a negative press as distractions in other forms of transport.

yeah i see what your saying . I guess what I am saying is a newsroom would
have published a picture of a motorist who appeared to be reading a paper in his/her car just as quickly as they would the train in question.

this is old, and it's sourced from police video not a private photographer
but shows what i mean. A newsroom would have got just as excited about this story as the train one .

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-379284/Woman-fined-putting-make-wheel.html

 

[Roylang]

I don't want to stray off topic too much, but I was merely trying to highlight the fact that distractions to car drivers don't get as bad a negative press as distractions in other forms of transport.

I am pretty sure that were the driver of a road vehicle to be a professional driver, say with a coach load of passengers, yes they would get the same reaction from the press.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The press may report both, but I bet you the prominence of the stories will be different.

 

[jon0844]

Normal driver, not likely to be bothered until there's an accident.

Lorry driver, perhaps bothered if they're foreign. Ditto a taxi driver.

Coach driver or train driver - equal outrage, given the potential danger even if nothing happens.

All should be treated the same, but the former is too common and you'd need an entire edition of a paper to be dedicated to it.

 

[anthony263]

Normal driver, not likely to be bothered until there's an accident.

Lorry driver, perhaps bothered if they're foreign. Ditto a taxi driver.

Coach driver or train driver - equal outrage, given the potential danger even if nothing happens.

All should be treated the same, but the former is too common and you'd need an entire edition of a paper to be dedicated to it.

IF any of us bus/coach drivers were spotted reading while driving we would be getting called to the managers office or worse sacked.

I do sometimes read a newspaper if i am parked up at a bus stop waiting time with the handbrake on or the engine switched off. If using a phone i will park up , put handbrake on and get out of the cab.

I have seen the occasional lorry/coach driver just very quickly have a brief check of a map before putting it down. Worst i have seen is women drivers sorting their makeup and not really having any hands on steering wheel etc

 

[passmore]

Lorry driver, perhaps bothered if they're foreign. Ditto a taxi driver.

Sorry once again for taking the thread off topic but I take great offence from that remark. Yes I am a retired lorry driver and I may appear to prove a point here but I couldn't let that one go.

 

[Legzr1]

i passed drivers assessment and had 4 interveiws with fgw each time jobs cancelled or should never of been posted(pt&r moves) to see that pic really gets my back up. As doesthe drivers who moan day after day that they are not well paid for what they do well why dont them drivers sod off and let somebody like me who wonts the job for driving trainsand not the money...

Once you do gain employment as a driver and get some experience then you'd be in a better position to comment.

I've seen people positively bursting at the seems trying everything to get on the footplate - within 12 months the reality dawns.

Some stick it out because of the money,some disappear and some still relish the start of every shift.

The latter are in the minority ime.

Strange how the 'desperation' to drive trains has increased propotionally with the increase in wage/decrease in hours/increase in perks.

No doubt there are new drivers in it for the experience.

However,most new starters I've met over the past 5 years wouldn't have been seen anywhere near the messroom when wages were less than £30K.




Back on topic.

Perhaps this driver has tarnished the reputation of the grade.

However,I guarantee the spotter who took the pic and forwarded it to whoever has changed MY opinion of those hanging over fences,leaning over bridges or kneeling at the end of platforms in all weathers just in the hope of another picture of a train.

Next time I totally blank one of you lot at a platform after a cab-change rather than taking the time to answer another mundane question you'll know the reason why.

Well done :roll:


Best of luck to the driver concerned although I fear the worst after all the adverse publicity.

 

[90019]

Next time I totally blank one of you lot at a platform after a cab-change rather than taking the time to answer another mundane question you'll know the reason why.

Well done :roll:

What a grown up attitude.

 

[NightatLaira]

What a grown up attitude.

+1 (don't really understand what's wrong with the spotter blowing the whistle on an instance like this - what you rather him do? Not report it?)

 

[jon0844]

Sorry once again for taking the thread off topic but I take great offence from that remark. Yes I am a retired lorry driver and I may appear to prove a point here but I couldn't let that one go.

Let what go? I don't know what your point is?

 

[Nonsense]

What a grown up attitude.

Indeed.

Someone upthread cautioned that some of the Rail staff here might be driven away from the site by such negativity toward them, and I agree to some extent. I wouldn't like to lose some of the insider perspectives posted here. But in a thread discussing the damage to the railway's image by just one individual, some contributors need to remember that this is a public forum, not the depot canteen.

For many, the only contact with the people who work the railways is here, and there is a bitterness and contempt held toward to traveling public by some of the employee contributers; and closing ranks to defend a mistake, in an industry where mistake cannot be seen to happen sends a really really bad message.

 

[jon0844]

Let's bear in mind that it isn't everyone closing ranks!

 

[Nonsense]

Let's bear in mind that it isn't everyone closing ranks!

Agreed.