Train drivers forced back to work

[Metroland]

Good. Three cheers for EMT.

========

The East Midlands Train company has got a High Court injunction to force drivers to work this Sunday.

Recently drivers refused to work voluntary shifts on Sundays in a dispute over pay.

Most services will operate as normal this weekend. Talks are continuing with the train drivers' union Aslef.

An union spokesman told the BBC Aslef had urged its members to work on Sunday although it was not formally involved in the dispute.

Timetabled services

He said the disruption was not official action and Aslef wanted to resolve the dispute

East Midlands Trains confirmed a "near normal" service would run on its key London route on 7 June, with 67 out of the normal 71 timetabled services planned to operate.

The company said 65 drivers had made themselves available to work on that day, contrasted with two who did so on 17 May and 12 on 24 May.

Tim Shoveller, managing director of East Midlands Trains said: "We are extremely sorry for the inconvenience our passengers have experienced recently over drivers refusing to make themselves available for work on Sundays.

"As a company, we have taken some far-reaching steps, including securing a High Court injunction, to ensure our drivers make themselves available for work on future Sundays."

Passengers hoping to travel on Sunday are still being advised to check travel information.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/8083722.stm

 

[Ferret]

That's bizarre. Not completely au fait with EMT drivers Terms and Conditions but am I to assume that Sundays are on a volunteer basis only - how the hell can the High Court force a driver to volunteer if he doesn't want to?! While I completely agree that Sundays need a train service it sounds like said injunction isn't really worth the paper it is printed on!

 

[Metroland]

Either way it strikes me that some Drivers attitudes to public services are much like some of our MPs. It is unacceptable for vast amount of tax payers money to be going into a service some of these people clearly don't want to provide. They should be sacked. There are cases for industrial action and strikes should be a last resort, but this isn't even official, this is just money grabbing. What next, duck islands?

 

[Tomnick]

I thought that the High Court injunction was from a couple of weeks ago, and just forced ASLEF to 'encourage' drivers to return to working Sundays as normal? Unless there's been further legal developments since then, I don't think they've found a way to force them to work Sundays!

 

[Metroland]

In which case I'd urge everyone to write to their MPs banning public transport workers from striking without independent arbitration. Union members should also be allowed to be sued by the general public. In fact I may start a petition, anyone else what to sign it?

Get back to work!

 

[glynn80]

There certainly wasn't a case involving EMT or ASLEF at the High Court today (http://www.courtnews2.co.uk/courtlists/current/indexrcj.htm).

 

[Tomnick]

Hmm, I'm not sure that it's fair to blame the drivers. Firstly, as I'm sure you're aware, it's not a strike, and the union (officially, at least) has played no part in bringing about the action. Secondly, wouldn't you be rather upset if your contract didn't require you to work Sundays yet you were being forced to work them on a regular basis? I agree that the current system is silly, but that's no fault of the drivers.

 

[Ferret]

Tbh, it's a double edged sword. EMT/Stagecoach must've known about employee T & Cs when they took on the franchise and they must've spotted the potential issue for conflict regarding Sundays. If they want to make Sundays compulsory and solve the issue at a stroke then I rather suspect it'll cost them a few quid - which naturally EMT don't want to pay! I'd suggest that negotiation with ASLEF rather than seeking what I see as a pointless injunction would be more the way to go.........

 

[westcoaster]

hold up Metroland , Sundays are on a volunteer basis only, how can you force someone to work when it is voluntry overtime, i would like to see you sue a train driver for not working, when a sunday is not part of their working week, you will be laughed out of court,

 

[Metroland]

Well if it's anything like Network rail, they get double pay for Sundays, on top of their £35k per year.

No I won't get a grip, everyone pays several hundred pounds into the rail system each even if they don't use it, these people's attitudes to public service stinks.

 

[westcoaster]

i can see where this is heading and it looks like a visciuos circle, to me it looks like EMT are trying to invoke ASLEF, im sure if drivers are forced to work on sunday, then aslef will ballet for strike over being forced to work (ala london midland).

 

[westcoaster]

Well if it's anything like Network rail, they get double pay for Sundays, on top of their £35k per year.

No I won't get a grip, everyone pays several hundred pounds into the rail system each even if they don't use it, these people's attitudes to public service stinks.

there are many difent public services i can not use at the weekend, say i want my kids to go to school on a sunday then does that mean teachers attitude to public services stink as well, say my only day off is a sunday, does that mean i can force my GP to work, dont think so do you.

looks like EMT are backstabers/liars
http://www.aslef.org.uk/information/113020/sunday_working_on_east_midlands_trains/

ASLEF and EMT are currently in disagreement as to whether drivers have a contractual duty to work on Sundays when rostered. EMT have recently confirmed that there is no wish on their part to force drivers to work Sundays and they envisage a continuation of the current local arrangements by which cover is invariably available for drivers who do not wish to work a rostered turn on a Sunday.

 

[Metroland]

So what about the people that want to travel on Sundays, now the busiest day of the week? I don't fully blame the drivers, but we all know the unions still love Spanish practices. Either way drivers and EMT should sort out it, or be prepared to lose their jobs/franchise.

 

[Ferret]

Well if it's anything like Network rail, they get double pay for Sundays, on top of their £35k per year.

No I won't get a grip, everyone pays several hundred pounds into the rail system each even if they don't use it, these people's attitudes to public service stinks.

Metroland, you need to understand that a fair proportion of EMT drivers took on the job some time ago noting that Sundays were not compulsory and when the demand for a Sunday service was nowhere near what it is now. To them, Sundays may well be the one day per week that they can spend quality time with their families. You have to balance your expectation of a Sunday train service against the drivers' expectation that the T & Cs they signed up to are adhered to. Now if EMT want to change those T & Cs, I'm sure the drivers would be prepared to listen, but in contractual terms, EMT would have to offer what's called "fresh consideration" - or put simply, a whole load of hard cash!

 

[Metroland]

If drivers don't know trains run on Sundays, they shouldn't be taking the job. It's like saying Fireman should be going on strike because they don't like heights. Other TOCs and NR have similar conditions, the reason Sundays are not part of the working week, is they like the double pay or other cushy conditions. Either way, it is unacceptable to leave the public who part pay their wages with no service.

 

[Tomnick]

The Sunday arrangement generally seems to work ok, so I'm not sure whether 'sorting it out' would be of overall benefit to EMT - it'd cost a lot more than paying a few rest days each weekend. There's clearly underlying issues that are making the drivers unhappy (I believe it's been stated elsewhere that it's the conditions attached to a pay offer, rather than pay itself?), so maybe the company ought to be concentrating more on coming to an agreement on that issue?

Edit, in light of posts that overtook mine! It's worth remembering that, at least for the ex-Central drivers, there wasn't much of a Sunday service a few years ago!

 

[Ferret]

If drivers don't know trains run on Sundays, they shouldn't be taking the job. It's like saying Fireman should be going on strike because they don't like heights. Other TOCs and NR have similar conditions, the reason Sundays are not part of the working week, is they like the double pay or other cushy conditions. Either way, it is unacceptable to leave the public who part pay their wages with no service.

But when some of those drivers took the job, there wasn't much of a Sunday service at all so your argument is fundamentally flawed.

 

[Metroland]

No it's not? There's always been a Sunday service. They are aware when they took the job, they may have to work Sundays, it says that in the contract I suspect.

 

[Ferret]

"He buried his head in the sand like an ostrich, thereby exposing his thinking parts........."

Just to reiterate - the Sunday service when these guys took on the job wasn't what it is now. Yes, they could have expected to work the odd Sunday here and there but not the amount that they are expected to now. The responsibility to negotiate and resolve this issue falls on EMT - they knew what they were getting into with driver T & Cs when they took on the franchise and it is up to them to sort it.

 

[westcoaster]

If drivers don't know trains run on Sundays, they shouldn't be taking the job. It's like saying Fireman should be going on strike because they don't like heights. Other TOCs and NR have similar conditions, the reason Sundays are not part of the working week, is they like the double pay or other cushy conditions. Either way, it is unacceptable to leave the public who part pay their wages with no service.

hyperthetically what if they were in the job before trains started running on sundays, should you be forced to work at no extra cost.
I doubt a fireman would take the job if they are afraid of height's , just like a driver would not take the job if they were travel sick.

 

[GB]

No it's not? There's always been a Sunday service. They are aware when they took the job, they may have to work Sundays, it says that in the contract I suspect.

I don't see what is so difficult for you to understand? Drivers at EMT are NOT contracted to work Sundays and therefor are within thier right not to work them if they don't want to....regardless of the fact they are in a service industry.

Do you think every driver should work every rest day???...because thats what it is...a rest day.

 

[Metroland]

Clearly, when they ALL walk out, its not about individual drivers not happy about working Sundays, which they know they might have to. It's a concerted attempt to grab more money from the fare and tax payer. There are hundreds queuing to do these jobs, these people should ship out if they are not happy.

 

[westcoaster]

There are hundreds queuing to do these jobs, these people should ship out if they are not happy.

so are you saying bullying by a company is a ok then.

 

[anthony263]

I dont think this argument is going anywhere.

ways it is going is that we will be here all night arguing and going around in circles.

I agree that u all have your points and i agree with some of what metroland has said although with train drivers earning the money they have surely working sundays should be compulsory where required.

 

[Ferret]

Clearly, when they ALL walk out, its not about individual drivers not happy about working Sundays, which they know they might have to. It's a concerted attempt to grab more money from the fare and tax payer. There are hundreds queuing to do these jobs, these people should ship out if they are not happy.

Maybe you should get a job at ACAS!!!

 

[Metroland]

so are you saying bullying by a company is a ok then.

No I'm saying get in the real world, consider hard working people who will be heavily inconvenienced on Sunday.

 

[Ferret]

consider hard working people who will be heavily inconvenienced on Sunday.

Like drivers who may want to spend precious time with their families but can't because you'd have them forced into work...............

 

[westcoaster]

No I'm saying get in the real world, consider hard working people who will be heavily inconvenienced on Sunday.

ok then:roll:

any how its all to do with that word "expected" same problen that was experienced at lm, which parent company ran both previous frachises you guest it "national express group" so if you want to quip at someone go moan to them.

 

[anthony263]

Guys cany you stop all the bickering and can some of the moderators keep an eye on this thread ?

As for getting the drivers to work on sundays, for £35,000 i be more than happy to work. Although i can understand the argument for those drivers with children but for those drivers who odnt have any children then surelly they should be able to work.

when i used to work as a bus driver for veolia i was more than happy to work sundays ( Because u had less annoying passengers) since it was probably my favourite day of the week and i was getting far less money than most train drivers earn so if i was working as a train driver even if sundays were volunatary u would find me working

 

[whoosh]

So you want to sack people for turning down overtime Metroland? Have I got that right?

The Sunday service is run entirely on overtime as it is cheaper for the company to rely on this way of working than to put Sundays in the working week, which would mean employing about 10% more drivers, with extra National Insurance and pension contributions that would cost it a lot of money.

At no point has East Midlands Trains attempted to negotiate for Sundays to be in the working week, prefering the cheaper option of running the service that day on overtime.
A few years ago Midland Mainline did agree a deal with drivers to put Sundays in the working week, but before it could be voted on by the drivers to accept it, it was vetoed by National Express Group (presumably, as I've said, it would require more drivers to be employed, increasing costs), so was dropped.


Sundays as overtime normally works well, with people who want the day off having the day off and people who want overtime volunteering to work. However, when goodwill is lost between a company and it's staff, people then don't want to work overtime.


For the record EMT driver's pay on a Sunday is normal time, whereas a lot of other companies are time and a quarter. The ex-Central side do get a minimum payment of 9 hours 15 minutes though, but the ex-MML side get nothing like that. Rest Days are the same.


Sadly many organisations vastly underestimate the importance of morale, and can then find themselves in trouble when no-one wants overtime, or wants to help out and do favours for them.


Even when everyone who's booked to work on a Sunday comes into work, there are normally still a considerable amount of drivers coming in in the middle of their long weekend to help out. But like I say, when goodwill is lost...