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Train drivers overpaid?

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dk1

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This is one of my all time favourite letters & excellently worded…..

“ I I urge all the people bleating
about train drivers' salaries
[MetroTalk, Fri) to apply for
trainee driver positions with
rail companies - thev're
advertised all the time on their
websites. I'd wager 95 per
cent of them would fail the
tests, then they could go back
to their 'highly skilled' jobs,
safe in the knowledge they
couldn't make the grade.
Peter, West London”
 

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RailUK Forums

Economist

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Having done both Intercity (first), and then DOO Suburban (second - quite unusally), DOO Suburban is riddled with far more risk of making a mistake, and a greater risk of being overloaded in certain circumstances.


The report says that "Saturdays are often part of the working week."
Often???
Always do they mean?

Nothing like a report from a know it all.

It gets on my wick when a load of consultants who've most likely never worked in the industry come up with a report like this, especially when they generalise so much.

The comment in the report about airline first officers having a much more difficult job was one which caught my eye. I don't see the railways allowing trainees to effectively buy a job in the way that some of the airlines allow trainee pilots to do so. I am a bit salty about the way in which the airline industry has priced out most people with regular financial backgrounds from going down that particular career path but one would think that if it was so difficult, such practices wouldn't exist.

But it’s hilarious to read those complaints & views lol

One of my all time favourite replies…

I've never really got grief from punters about our pay (yet) but the next time I do, I'm tempted to reply, "I used to think like that but then I went and did something about it". Unfortunately, the media do a very good job at pitching people in regular jobs against people in other regular jobs where the T&Cs haven't been decimated in the past 40 years or so.
 

dk1

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I've never really got grief from punters about our pay (yet) but the next time I do, I'm tempted to reply, "I used to think like that but then I went and did something about it". Unfortunately, the media do a very good job at pitching people in regular jobs against people in other regular jobs where the T&Cs haven't been decimated in the past 40 years or so.

There are some bitter Barry & Brenda’s out there. Don’t understand it myself.
 

S-Car-Go

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Misleading sweeping generalisations here. Not all TOCs or FOCs are on a 4-day week and many companies have Sundays as part of the working week, others have different enhancements for Sundays and Rest Days worked and others have no RDW agreement at all which limits the amount a driver can earn.
I should have clarified that is my experience at my current TOC. There are variations of course between companies. Some have higher basic salaries but work some compulsory Sundays etc. Some are instructors and get additional through that. The point I was making was that I have heard of *some* drivers, not all, that do earn close to 100k. This may be due to working a lot of extra rest days, and push close to the Hidden Rule limit.

@dk1 I chuckled at that reading the Metro in our messroom :D
 
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Carl98k

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I’ve not long started training, but once people found out I’d started I got the old “you’ll be in strike then”. I just laugh it off.
 

dk1

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I’ve not long started training, but once people found out I’d started I got the old “you’ll be in strike then”. I just laugh it off.
They are so tedious. Leaves on the line comes next for these bad comedians.
 

Volvictof

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They are so tedious. Leaves on the line comes next for these bad comedians.

I’ve lost count of the times people I’m just meeting come out with “ahh your a drain driver?... So you get to retire on full pay if you hit three people!”
Ignoring the fact it’s not true, they’re grinning like it’s a completely appropriate thing to say to someone they’ve just met, who for all they know, may have hit someone.
 

dk1

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I’ve lost count of the times people I’m just meeting come out with “ahh your a drain driver?... So you get to retire on full pay if you hit three people!”
Ignoring the fact it’s not true, they’re grinning like it’s a completely appropriate thing to say to someone they’ve just met, who for all they know, may have hit someone.

Tell me about it. All I want to do is punch their stupid lights out.
 

LRV3004

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I drove buses before moving onto trams and then trains. Having sat the intensive training to become a train driver, I’ve learned that train drivers are paid for what they have to know, not necessarily what they do.
 

185

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Up to 1200 passengers... deserve £100K for that responsibility, which I'd happily pay them to ensure a competent, sober, sane, qualified person who can do the job.

New York Subway's 1918 Malbone St train disaster was a good example of why drivers must be properly trained and competent. On that, Luciano was a 25 year old person with a desk job, out driving trains to break a strike. He ran late, so to get back on time did 50mph. In a 5mph. His 3-hour classroom course wasn't all that comprehensive it seems.

Some Tory MPs last month did ask the question to Mr Lynch if he supported driverless trains.. to which Mr Lynch responded in the usual deadpan apocalyptic style - however seeing modern railway software and the amount of glitches even the newest kit faces, I'd rather there was a real driver on my train anyday than put my life in the hands of an Argos toaster wired to a Windows XP blue screen of doom.
 

43066

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deserve £100K for that responsibility, which I'd happily pay them to ensure a competent, sober, sane, qualified person who can do the job.

£100k as a train driver is easily doable, if you want to work that hard, of course…

That reality will trigger certain people, I’m sure…
 

GusB

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The cost of living would naturally increase, of course. Not everyone should be on £55k +, that would be ridiculous. I mean, no disrespect to retail staff, but the skillset, training and responsibility for stacking shelves in Tesco isn’t exactly comparable to driving a train.

I've only really just come across this thread, and thought I'd add my own tuppence worth. As someone who has had considerable experience of working in retail I will agree that the skillset for someone who stacks the shelves in a supermarket is nowhere near comparable to that required to drive a train, but it's foolish to underestimate the skills of someone who you perceive to be simply stacking shelves. I spent much of my time placing things on shelves, but at the same time I was ensuring that the shelves were at the correct height for the display, that there was enough stock to fill the display in the first place and that the display exactly matched the drawings that were send down from on high.

At the same time, you have to do your utmost to ensure that you're not over-stocking the shelves with stuff that you know won't sell (local knowledge trumps head office) while avoiding the wrath of the regional manager when they turn up and ask why a particular line isn't on the shelf. It's even more bloody frustrating when, three months down the line, those products end up on the "reduced to clear" section because nobody wanted to buy them, and the same regional arsehole manager is demanding to know why your waste figures are so high!

Getting back on-topic, @neilmc started the thread with what I believe to be a genuine question:
Discussing with a colleague this morning who said it was a travesty that train drivers are paid over twice what bus drivers are paid -bus drivers have to manoevre their vehicle in conflicting traffic whereas train drivers just have to know when and how to start and stop. I couldn't contradict her - is a loco cab and more complicated that a bus cab these days? Is it just comparative union strength which is responsible?

I see this post for what it is - a genuine question from a layman who has no experience in either job. I think the initial replies to this were rather disrespectful, to be honest. Until I joined this forum I had absolutely no idea what the job of a train driver involved and may well have asked "well, how hard can it be?" at some point in time. I didn't know about route knowledge, traction training or The Rules. I'd like to think I'm a bit better informed now.

I think we all need to take a moment to consider that many jobs involve some technicalities that aren't immediately visible to the casual observer. On the face of it, train drivers may only have to move a lever back and forward; supermarket staff only have to stick a jar of something on a shelf, but there are rules and regulations governing those activities and it's really frustrating to hear "all you have to do is this... a trained monkey could do it".

I'd love to see these armchair experts cope with a 100m checkout queue on the 24th December when you're due to finish your shift and the management have "accidentally" forgotten and there's no cover. There will be many train drivers, bus drivers and other service sector workers who have similar stories.

Let's just show a little respect, eh? :)
 

ComUtoR

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I've only really just come across this thread, and thought I'd add my own tuppence worth. As someone who has had considerable experience of working in retail I will agree that the skillset for someone who stacks the shelves in a supermarket is nowhere near comparable to that required to drive a train, but it's foolish to underestimate the skills of someone who you perceive to be simply stacking shelves. I spent much of my time placing things on shelves,

I spent most of my early career working in Retail. Eventually up to Manager level.

but at the same time I was ensuring that the shelves were at the correct height for the display, that there was enough stock to fill the display in the first place and that the display exactly matched the drawings that were send down from on high.

Ahh the dreaded 'planogram' I used to really hate those. The constant flipping around stock displays because Pantene have introduced another new flavour and another bottle change. They were the bane of my life. (both of them)

At the same time, you have to do your utmost to ensure that you're not over-stocking the shelves with stuff that you know won't sell (local knowledge trumps head office) while avoiding the wrath of the regional manager when they turn up and ask why a particular line isn't on the shelf.

It can be a little soul destroying at times when you know better than head office and constantly mark down the same items or can't get specific items from a collection. Some creative 'ranging' took place in my store. Sticking a 4ft plan into a 2ft plan was fun...


It's even more bloody frustrating when, three months down the line, those products end up on the "reduced to clear" section because nobody wanted to buy them, and the same regional arsehole manager is demanding to know why your waste figures are so high!

Or why your 'density' figures are tanking. (sales per linear foot)

I'd love to see these armchair experts cope with a 100m checkout queue on the 24th December when you're due to finish your shift and the management have "accidentally" forgotten and there's no cover. There will be many train drivers, bus drivers and other service sector workers who have similar stories.

Let's just show a little respect, eh?

Christmas was always easy for me. Saturday afternoon was always a nightmare. Especially in the days before barcodes and you had to type a 4 digit code for the department and then key in the price !

Personally I think the railway could learn a lot from Retail. Departments work closely together, communication was always excellent, staffing levels are generally spot on (typically over), etc, etc.
 

Amex88

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Tbh I strongly feel train drivers are hugely underpaid! Considering footballers get paid millions i think they need 500k a year! Easy! Imagine 1000+ people on board and forbid anything happens. They are underpaid. Plus their lives plus their families lives are at risk too.. what a pathetic thread!
 

Inthe4foot

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I agree with most of the above. I feel that with us train drivers and guards there is a lot of negativity but when you dig deeper it’s 9/10 because they couldn’t get the job or failed the OPC tests.

People don’t understand the job or are just jealous. The whole comparing to bus drivers is crazy, bus drivers can jump company to company takes weeks not months to train.

On a personal note train driving is easy 95% of the time once your there but the first 12-18 months are nerve wrecking and hard.
 

ExRes

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Tbh I strongly feel train drivers are hugely underpaid! Considering footballers get paid millions i think they need 500k a year! Easy! Imagine 1000+ people on board and forbid anything happens. They are underpaid. Plus their lives plus their families lives are at risk too.. what a pathetic thread!

I think you forgot to add the :lol: to your post
 

Seejwalker

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Let’s be honest though, drivers do just go forward acknowledge DSD and AWS and signallers do everything else.
There’s really not much to it.
 

baz962

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Let’s be honest though, drivers do just go forward acknowledge DSD and AWS and signallers do everything else.
There’s really not much to it.
We drink tea ☕ too. Aren't you soon to start as a driver
 

Volvictof

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I hate it when people talk crap about someone’s job to the person that does it… what are they expecting you to say? Agree with them?
Perhaps agreeing with them is the thing to do next time they do it, and see how they react.
It’s like people who tell a staff member how awful the company is, are they expecting that staff member to agree with them and start bitching about the company?
 

ComUtoR

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Let’s be honest though, drivers do just go forward acknowledge DSD and AWS and signallers do everything else.
There’s really not much to it.

You could make my day easier if you gave me greens !

The magic SG button only works 9/10 times. Stop feeding the fish and pull the road :lol:
 

Seejwalker

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We’d never of guessed lol (late night?)
(Late night) I thought that might catch a little nibble.

You could make my day easier if you gave me greens !

The magic SG button only works 9/10 times. Stop feeding the fish and pull the road :lol:
I could count on one hand the amount of drivers that have actually used the SG button correctly in the years I’ve been signalling. So yes, to you it must really be magic.

I can also tell you how often drivers are leaving stations 2-3 minutes early as a result of having the road.

But yes I won’t be a liar and tell you that signallers are perfect.

Aren't you soon to start as a driver
I am indeed mate. It’s the only reason I’m having a bit of wind up. As I’ve got a get out jail free card by the fact I’m actually joining the dark side.

I wouldn’t slag you all of otherwise.
 
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dk1

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I am indeed mate. It’s the only reason I’m having a bit of wind up. As I’ve got a get out jail free card by the fact I’m actually joining the dark side.

I wouldn’t slag you all of otherwise.

I did roughly the same although after leaving the signalling grade in 1989 it took a few other railway positions before becoming a driver in 98.
 
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