Train Driving Vs Airline Pilot

[185]

Is there any ex airline pilots here who've made the switch to train driving or vice versa?

There was a very experienced First Officer flying fullsize airbus charter aircraft for many years who passed his train driver assessment but was failed by a driver manager at interview with First Transpennine Express. He had previously driven light rail in winter, and flew charter aircraft every summer.

He's now gone fulltime at the same major charter operator. The railway's loss, in my opinion.

 

[PudseyBearHST]

Also, have you been on a Plane simulator or had one of these experience days flying a small plane to see if you enjoy flying?

 

[Economist]

I'm a recently qualified train driver who's got a serious interest in aviation, I'm tempted to try the airline route one day.

The recent Aer Lingus programme is very good, I'd say it's one of the best in Europe. If you're good with languages, Air France and Austrian Airlines both have run similar, fully funded programmes recently. It will be interesting to see if BA launch another iteration of the FPP at some point in the future, or if any other airlines consider the fully funded route.

Of course one option is to try and become a train driver (no mean feat in itself) and to save hard in case you may want to consider the modular route at some point. That said, if you do go down that route, you should do so with the intention lf train driving being your long-term career, consider the modular route simply as an option and nothing more.

 

[WeGoAgain]

...That said, if you do go down that route, you should do so with the intention lf train driving being your long-term career, consider the modular route simply as an option and nothing more.

I disagree. If you're going to go for it, you have to go whole hog. You can more easily return to the Railway, whereas staying current as a Pilot can well be difficult. - There are 50 year old Trainee Train Drivers, so the option to get back in given you have had previous experience is easier. - It seems there's an unofficial age 'limit' to entering the airlines from no aviation related careers, that being around 40. After that, you may never become Captain at one of the larger carriers.

 

[Warwick]

There's a simple reason why airline pilots are paid more than train drivers.
They have more skills. A train driver is controlling his machine in one dimension - speed. A pilot is controlling his machine in three dimensions - speed, height, and direction.
If a train driver goes too slow the train loses time. If a pilot goes too slow the aircraft stalls and crashes.
If the engines /motors on a train stop working the train comes to a stand. If the engines on an aircraft stop working people start praying.

 

[Val3ntine]

There's a simple reason why airline pilots are paid more than train drivers.
They have more skills. A train driver is controlling his machine in one dimension - speed. A pilot is controlling his machine in three dimensions - speed, height, and direction.
If a train driver goes too slow the train loses time. If a pilot goes too slow the aircraft stalls and crashes.
If the engines /motors on a train stop working the train comes to a stand. If the engines on an aircraft stop working people start praying.

Nobody has yet questioned or disputed the differences in pay between pilots and train drivers, I can forsee this as being an unnecessary fuel to start that boring old fire up again

 

[Cyclist]

There's a simple reason why airline pilots are paid more than train drivers.
They have more skills. A train driver is controlling his machine in one dimension - speed. A pilot is controlling his machine in three dimensions - speed, height, and direction.
If a train driver goes too slow the train loses time. If a pilot goes too slow the aircraft stalls and crashes.
If the engines /motors on a train stop working the train comes to a stand. If the engines on an aircraft stop working people start praying.

And being honest, this is one of the reasons I have an interest in driving but not being a pilot. Seems to be less risk involved.

 

[Emmsie]

Fully funded flight training is brutal, apart from getting onto the programme you then have to pass all tests with very few opportunities to retake, screw up and you're out. Finding a well paid flight job without layovers is rare, even short haul have layovers particularly with the legacy carriers so if you like being at home every night go for train driving. Whilst Pilots are well paid I'm not sure that will continue long term, I trained many moons ago in the US and back then starting out with American Eagle the salary was $16,000 a year and prior to that most got their hours by flight instructing so it is a hard slog and not as glamorous as it appears. On the plus side both jobs are well paid without having to take any work home, when you are done for the day you're done, very few jobs with these salaries have the same freedom

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Having worked on the railway front-line, though not as a driver, and also been interested in aviation for many years I am surprised at the lack of certain comments. In particular the demands made of pilots in the early part of their careers is such that that you really do need to love flying to want to try earning a living from it. Yes if you are able to progress to being a long-haul captain the financial rewards are very good but realistically these days many pilots will never get to that point. And there are very few opportunities to enter the industry that don't require some sort of significant lifestyle upheaval: I don't mean shift working but the need to relocate. The biggest expansion is with the low cost carriers but LCCs have a nasty habit of not telling new recruits that their home base will be a distant hicksville or that their base may be changed at short notice. As such I can't imagine there are many pilots who are in it just for the money. A slightly different story for train drivers who in Europe at least have a high degree of job security. And IME there are definitely train drivers for whom the pay is the most significant, and sometimes the only, reason for doing the job. That doesn't make them bad employees but such an attitude is unlikely to provide sufficient motivation for dealing with the grinding early years of a piloting career.

 

[ZNB12]

There's a simple reason why airline pilots are paid more than train drivers.
They have more skills. A train driver is controlling his machine in one dimension - speed. A pilot is controlling his machine in three dimensions - speed, height, and direction.
If a train driver goes too slow the train loses time. If a pilot goes too slow the aircraft stalls and crashes.
If the engines /motors on a train stop working the train comes to a stand. If the engines on an aircraft stop working people start praying.

Pilots also have auto pilot! That comes on about 2000 feet after take off. Also Aircraft's can land themselves. Train drivers need to be turn on 24/7 when behind the controls. Watching every person on busy platforms, level crossing and watching Signal.
One person controlling 12car train in peak service disruption can have over 1400 people and been driver only no help if thing go wrong. If we miss a station were in deep do, we pass signal at RED well look at history.
Pilots have a FO (first officer) and min of 2 cabin crew all the time to help them and your aircraft's are fixed to number of seats.
If train goes to slow can roll back!
I get that pilots are a skilled work force , but so are drivers in different ways.! Both deserve the wages were on.

 

[Economist]

Fully funded flight training is brutal, apart from getting onto the programme you then have to pass all tests with very few opportunities to retake, screw up and you're out. Finding a well paid flight job without layovers is rare, even short haul have layovers particularly with the legacy carriers so if you like being at home every night go for train driving. Whilst Pilots are well paid I'm not sure that will continue long term, I trained many moons ago in the US and back then starting out with American Eagle the salary was $16,000 a year and prior to that most got their hours by flight instructing so it is a hard slog and not as glamorous as it appears. On the plus side both jobs are well paid without having to take any work home, when you are done for the day you're done, very few jobs with these salaries have the same freedom

The train driver training can be brutal, at some TOCs a single exam fail results in a candidate being moved off the driver training programme. From personal experience, the eight hour driving test isn't exactly easy either, even though the DMs most likely want a candidate to pass. Thankfully, I made it through first time but I was bricking it for a good while beforehand.

The airline conditions for pilots have been in decline for a long time, Cathay Pacific put all pilots who joined after 1990 on a "B" scale, I hear there's now a "C" scale. We don't have BA putting people through Hamble on a fully expensed course any more, their last training programme cost each candidate £115k plus living expenses. The glamour days of the 1950's and 1960's have long gone.

 

[Evolution]

Thanks for the replies, some really helpful information.

I think both roles obviously require a similar skill set in some respects and the bonus of the train driver role is paid for training and a job at the end of the training.

I think a driver role would be easier to get than on an Aer Lingus fully funded program. Even if you do get on this course there is no pay for the 14 months of training, just a very small monthly allowance. Obviously it’s a brilliant opportunity but lottery type odds of getting in with so many applicants.

A driver role maybe more realistic at this point. Again, not a forgone conclusion to get accepted for such a role.

 

[Evolution]

After researching I believe a First Officer should earn £50-£60k when starting out and Captains £120-£150k +

If the reports of drivers earning £70k+ are reliable then there’s not quite as much in it at First Officer level in terms of salary as I thought. No huge loan to payback either.

 

[H4R]

Odd that this post should appear now. I’m in a very similar position to the OP, only I’ve had my heart set on being a pilot for about 6 years. I’ve had a few flying lessons but that’s all. I’ve always loved being up high, I’m machine mad and the ATPL ground school exam topics all interest me (I sometimes read up on them for lols). I truly think it would be my dream career but that’s it, it’s a career and there’s more to life. For me I have a young family and that’s the most important thing and so (for now), as much as I find it hard to say, I don’t see a way that the pilot thing will work out at this point and believe me I’ve spent a LONG time weighing up options. If you really want something then you’ll work your a** off to make it work in spite of cost. For me the snubber was the uncertainty of basing with the airlines. However the OP might find themselves in a different personal situation and if you have flexibility you could really enjoy the whole process. At the moment things don’t look too bad for a wannabe pilot. There is a trend back towards sponsored training with Easy and Ryanair both recently subsidising type ratings and Aer Lingus running a fully sponsored zero to hero so never say never.

Question from me for the train drivers out there. I’m a do’er with (some) brains, that has somehow ended up in an office and can’t stand it! As I’ve said I’m fairly well “grounded” at the moment and so for the last 18 months have been looking at the driver role with some interest. In many aspects it seems as close to being a pilot as you can get without leaving the ground. Flying appeals to me because your making calculations, working with the weather, using all sorts of navigation tech and using physics to keep a big metal tube in the sky. I’m a fan of the safety culture and the view ain’t too shabby either. I would like to know how transferable the “interest” side of things are. What concerns me is I’ve done a bit of practice on the train driver tests and seem to do quite well with the dots and other common ones but they seem geared at how well you cope with being bored? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think train driving would be boring and there are plenty on here that are very passionate about it which is testament to that but I don’t understand why the ‘boredom’ bit is emphasised so much in the tests. It must be stimulating to some degree with decision making and communicating/ problem solving etc. Would be particularly interested to hear more from @Speedbird738 sounds like the ideal situation!

Sorry for hijacking but I thought the OP would benefit from any resulting discussion!

 

[Jme_Bud]

You only train for 12months Max. 3 to 4 months in classrooms base rules, traction, route risk. Then around 4 to 6 months driving hours behind the controls and X amount in dark hours. Training salary can start from £25K.. interview & assessment can take months before getting a job. Driving can be a easy life when all goes to plan. Every toc is different terms and conditions.
You get PRIV rate discounts on other TOCs 75% discount on walk on fares only. Free travel for you and family on your company and sister company. E.g Abellio, free leisure travel on Greater Anglia, Scot Rail, Meresy rail & West Midlands. Good pension. 12 hrs rest between shifts. List goes on and on.

There are some TOCs taking way longer than 12 months, closer to 24 months to train drivers.

 

[Cactus]

I'm an ex- commercial pilot now train driver and really the two jobs are completely different. Although being a pilot seems like a dream job, these days its all about you paying out for everything and for a lot of pilots not even getting a permanent contract with an airline at the end of it. After 6 years flying i was still only on 60k, flying maximum hours with minimum rest and only 8 days off a month. It's a tough life and one i could not continue if i wanted a family home life.
Now train driving im already on more money after only 2 years, working a 35 hour a week with plenty of holidays. Plus theres a lot more job stability and the unions are incredible.
Flying is a lot more 'boring' i find, as someone on here said theres the auto-pilot which basically goes on as soon as we take off then its just sit and watch, sometimes for 5 hours depending on the length of the flight. Don't get me wrong i absolutely love flying but with the technological advances now we did less and less actual flying. At least when im driving there is always something to focus on, and that really does make a big difference.
The skill set is similar though and i found the train tests more difficult then the pilot ones which was surprising, but when i think about it im looking after many more people driving a train so they should be harder.
If you really want to fly then definitely go for it but its not as rosy as it may seem, consider big loans, small pay for years and time spent away from home. But if its your dream then don't settle for train driving!!

 

[H4R]

Thanks Cactus, some really good insight and refreshingly balanced. It can be a nasty bug to be bitten by, but for the first time I’m starting to think that aviation could be a better pass time than a job (for now at least). The only way I can see it working with family life with current conditions, is if you were in the job first and you fit the family around it. Who knows things may swing the other way if this pilot shortage ever comes to real fruition...

Again, really useful!

 

[Macca89]

After researching I believe a First Officer should earn £50-£60k when starting out and Captains £120-£150k +

If the reports of drivers earning £70k+ are reliable then there’s not quite as much in it at First Officer level in terms of salary as I thought. No huge loan to payback either.

BIB

Thats more your highly experienced Captains salary, Typically depending on who they work for, a captain will earn more between £55k-£80k

Quite on par if not only just slightly more than your typical if not slightly experienced Train Driver

 

[whoosh]

Interesting to see Cactus talking about swapping from pilot to train driver. There is a trainee driver at Great Northern who has made the same transition.

 

[Evolution]

I'm an ex- commercial pilot now train driver and really the two jobs are completely different. Although being a pilot seems like a dream job, these days its all about you paying out for everything and for a lot of pilots not even getting a permanent contract with an airline at the end of it. After 6 years flying i was still only on 60k, flying maximum hours with minimum rest and only 8 days off a month. It's a tough life and one i could not continue if i wanted a family home life.
Now train driving im already on more money after only 2 years, working a 35 hour a week with plenty of holidays. Plus theres a lot more job stability and the unions are incredible.
Flying is a lot more 'boring' i find, as someone on here said theres the auto-pilot which basically goes on as soon as we take off then its just sit and watch, sometimes for 5 hours depending on the length of the flight. Don't get me wrong i absolutely love flying but with the technological advances now we did less and less actual flying. At least when im driving there is always something to focus on, and that really does make a big difference.
The skill set is similar though and i found the train tests more difficult then the pilot ones which was surprising, but when i think about it im looking after many more people driving a train so they should be harder.
If you really want to fly then definitely go for it but its not as rosy as it may seem, consider big loans, small pay for years and time spent away from home. But if its your dream then don't settle for train driving!!

Very interesting post and a great insight into both roles.

I think the only way I would get into the airline industry is on a sponsored role, I don’t think it’s viable to pay thousands for the training, I’d rather drive a train if I could get accepted by TOC which I understand is a very difficult task in itself.

 

[Evolution]

BIB

Thats more your highly experienced Captains salary, Typically depending on who they work for, a captain will earn more between £55k-£80k

Quite on par if not only just slightly more than your typical if not slightly experienced Train Driver

Yes and it would take many years to get in the left hand seat no doubt.

 

[Economist]

Time to command varies, for Ryanair it's 4-5 years, Easyjet was running at ablut 6 years, BA longhaul is 18-20 years.

I can tell you from first hand experience that the latter stages of the Aer Lingus programme are immensely competitive but there again its the same for train driving jobs. With the airlines you'll be up against people who have great potential, with the trains it tends to be proven life experience.

The last time BA ran the Future Pilot Programme, they wanted 90+ successful candidates, apparently only 72 met the minimum standard. If BA run some sort of funded programme again and it is a big if, then it could be worth a look, though the standards will be incredibly high.

 

[Evolution]

Something that a colleague mentioned to me today was about “jumpers” he was saying his mate experienced this horrific event.

I’m not sure how common occurrence this or what the odds are of it happening to you.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Flying appeals to me because your making calculations, working with the weather, using all sorts of navigation tech and using physics to keep a big metal tube in the sky. I’m a fan of the safety culture and the view ain’t too shabby either. I would like to know how transferable the “interest” side of things are. What concerns me is I’ve done a bit of practice on the train driver tests and seem to do quite well with the dots and other common ones but they seem geared at how well you cope with being bored? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think train driving would be boring and there are plenty on here that are very passionate about it which is testament to that but I don’t understand why the ‘boredom’ bit is emphasised so much in the tests. It must be stimulating to some degree with decision making and communicating/ problem solving etc.

Train driving can be very boring at times due to its repetitive nature, certainly at TOCs running mostly local services. The tests are indeed designed to test your ability to cope with that and still maintain focus. Apart from freight drivers there is almost no need for mental gymnastics regarding the physics of the operation, train drivers don't need to be "clever" but they do need to be persistently consistent. And that is mostly about correctly following procedures without prompting so not that much need for decision making. And while a pilot carries ultimate responsibility for the safety of the aircraft and all aboard it for trains that responsibility tends to be shared with others such as signallers. The obvious parallel to flying is the ability to retain the knowledge required to continue safe operation under degraded situations though there are no simulator sessions testing performance in every conceivable circumstance. So some similarities but also some big differences.

 

[Class2ldn]

I'm a train driver and I would love to be a pilot but in reality I couldn't give up the security of train driving to try and get into an airline.
Most of them want A levels as a minimum anyway which I don't have and to me that's a bonus of train driving. You need no qualifications whatsoever but at the end of it you're rewarded with being paid more then a lot of jobs that do.
I read a lot on prunne and all I see is pilots moaning about the hours they work, home life etc.
It's not the industry it once was and the airlines want more and more out of you so I'm sure the grass isn't always greener.
There isn't many people going flying from train driving but I've seen plenty come the other way.
That says something in itself.

 

[Economist]

The possibility of a "jumper" doesn't worry me a great deal, what does worry me however is the possibility of a "trap and drag" or a similar platform incident. I take a very strict interpretation of the DOO policy and on more than one occasion have been berated by passengers for doing so.

I can't speak a great deal about commercial flying though T&Cs seem to be under attack globally. Plenty of threads complaining about Cathay and Emirates, not just the low-cost world, on the well-known aviation forums. I've met quite a few BA folk through recreational flying and they seem to agree that whilst it's fun, it isn't what it was.

Funnily enough, not many rose-tinted glasses in the drivers messrooms I've been in.

Regardless of which you choose, you have to manage your health and sleeping patterns very carefully. Sadly, there's quite a few funeral order of service cards on the noticeboards with 195x and 196x on them.

 

[Bromley boy]

Interesting thread.

I drive trains, fly privately myself (hour building and doing the commercials), and I’m good friends with an airline pilot who is an experienced first officer at a U.K. charter airline based at Gatwick.

He loves his job but freely admits it was a slog to get there. £100kish to train with no guarantee of a job. He started training in late 2006 when the market was good and qualified just as the crash happened. He then had to pay RYR EUR 30k for a type rating (and was very lucky to even get that).

He then spent several years being gimped by RYR, sent to random European bases (not much of a life).

He loves his job (and very few people have that level passion for their work on the railway, sadly). Even at his level, the stability isn’t great. He is on the 75/6 and the fleet is being retired in the next couple of years and he faces the choice of going for a command on the 73 at another U.K. base or applying to another airline to remain at Gatwick. He could change to the 787 fleet at his current airline but would then need to spend half the year flying from Helsinki I believe.

He now earns a base salary in the mid £60ks but with flight pay I think his total earnings are around £90k. That’s a good salary of course but I don’t think it’s *that* good considering the sacrifices to get there and the risk.

 

[Bromley boy]

After researching I believe a First Officer should earn £50-£60k when starting out and Captains £120-£150k +

If the reports of drivers earning £70k+ are reliable then there’s not quite as much in it at First Officer level in terms of salary as I thought. No huge loan to payback either.

Worth noting the FO salaries above would be for jet jobs and the figure for captains’ salaries would be for very senior captains at major airlines.

Turboprop operators such as Flybe/Stobart Air etc. would pay in the region of (basic) £25 - 40k for FOs and £50 - 70k for captains.

 

[baz962]

It seems there are very different grades and salaries and of course airlines. Before I started my trainee driver role , I was at Luton airport for 7 year's and knew a few pilot's. Also there was that program , inside the cockpit , about easyjet and one junior ish first officer was going upto 50k , so the captain was on quite a bit more. Most easyjet pilots were home most days too.

 

[Emmsie]

I don't want to burst your bubble but the only time you'll really be using those skills is in training. I did my flight training in Miami and worked in bars to fund it all with an 18 month break in the middle when I had my son. I dreamt of a career as a pliot from the age of 10 when I first saw Concorde fly in the late 70's (the standing joke in my family is that I would sacrafice my son to see her fly again!! and its not far from the truth). During my 18 month break I realised that sitting in a cockpit for upto 14 hours with one other person was my idea of a nightmare and so when I returned to complete my training it was in the knowledge that it wasn't a career I really wanted to pursue although i could have had my arm twisted if the job was flying private jets or possibly flying in Africa. I overcame a lot of obstacles to complete my training so if i can do it anyone can but think very seriously about what the job actually entails. Its not as glamarous or as interesting as people think. Certainly think about getting your PPL and IPL adn you could always do an Instructors course and do a bit of that on the side although at my FBO we lost 3 instructors in air accidents, 2 through stupidity on their part and 1 through a student pilot suicide