Train Driving vs Bus Driving

[driver9000]

Question on this relating to legal driving hours - a bus driver on service work can drive for up to 5 hours 30 mins on domestic regulations without a break (there are different permutations but i'm just looking at it from a simplistic view), what are the regulations regarding how long a train driver can drive without a break, and also the maximum driving time per day?

Train Drivers hours are not mandated in law so vary between operators. The general maximum working day is 10 hours with 12 hours rest (as per Hidden report recommendations) but some freight allows longer working days for example and some operators may have a lower rest period for non safety critical turns. I can drive up to 4hr30 (lower for night turns) before requiring a minimum 30 minute break for turns longer than 6 hours.

 

[PaulBusDriver]

As someone with a car license, I could learn to drive a bus within 4-6 weeks. I could then drive that bus anywhere in the uk (with a decent route map). Train drivers take 1 year - 18 months to train and on completion of training can only drive the specific traction and routes they sign.

Not to denigrate bus drivers in any way, but the jobs are not in any way comparable. The only thing a train has is common with a bus is that the speedometer is in miles per hour.

The length of the training is nothing to do with the unions.

You might Legally entitled to drive a bus anywhere in the UK after 5-6 weeks training(I personally received 4 weeks as my tutor was on holiday on the 5th!) but I would say that competence and actual skills take up to a year to develop. You need a lot of intuition to drive a bus, I could mention multiple examples of things that bus drivers have to deal with that train drivers never would have but I'm not really desiring a "mine's bigger than yours" style argument at all.

Bus drivers do on the whole do a marvellous job given unpredictable and difficult conditions they have to tolerate and normally with very little understanding by the public or appreciation of the job they do. That's not to say that Train drivers don't do a tough job either but as I'm only a aspiring wannabee train driver I really don't know!
It's probably not a coincidence though that a lot of ex bus drivers make it through the train driver selection process.

 

[atraindriver]

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[Walrus]

Now I've not read all the replies to this, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

For a bus driver "To start training with a company, you must hold a full EU driving licence and be aged at least 18. Some employers prefer to take on trainees who have held their driving licence for one or two years or who are aged over 21. Check with them directly for details."

So to become a bus driver, you need to have spent your time learning to drive a car, and most likely the company will want you to have been driving for a certain amount of time before they'd consider you, then add on the time bus driver training takes.

This is easily often well over 2 years of time to become a bus driver. In super ideal conditions you can become a train driver in around a year. I'm not entirely sure where the idea of bus driver training being so quick coming from. You add up the time it takes from not being able to drive a road vehicle to being a qualified bus driver, in the same way you start from the time you aren't able to drive a railroad vehicle to being a qualified train driver.

 

[Dieseldriver]

Now I've not read all the replies to this, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

For a bus driver "To start training with a company, you must hold a full EU driving licence and be aged at least 18. Some employers prefer to take on trainees who have held their driving licence for one or two years or who are aged over 21. Check with them directly for details."

So to become a bus driver, you need to have spent your time learning to drive a car, and most likely the company will want you to have been driving for a certain amount of time before they'd consider you, then add on the time bus driver training takes.

This is easily often well over 2 years of time to become a bus driver. In super ideal conditions you can become a train driver in around a year. I'm not entirely sure where the idea of bus driver training being so quick coming from. You add up the time it takes from not being able to drive a road vehicle to being a qualified bus driver, in the same way you start from the time you aren't able to drive a railroad vehicle to being a qualified train driver.

OK so if we put that another way. I'm a Train Driver who has completed my intense training course to become one. I also hold a car driving licence which I have had for many years. Going by your analogy, not only am I a qualified Train Driver, I'm also very nearly a qualified Bus Driver with just the very short training course to take to get me up to scratch...

 

[Walrus]

OK so if we put that another way. I'm a Train Driver who has completed my intense training course to become one. I also hold a car driving licence which I have had for many years. Going by your analogy, not only am I a qualified Train Driver, I'm also very nearly a qualified Bus Driver with just the very short training course to take to get me up to scratch...

Almost. Part of the training to be a bus driver is the years of experience you have on the road already, with the bus specific training a more focused subset/specialisation, which not everyone would be good at.

 

[atraindriver]

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[Dieseldriver]

Almost. Part of the training to be a bus driver is the years of experience you have on the road already, with the bus specific training a more focused subset/specialisation, which not everyone would be good at.

Do you not think that's applicable to Train Driving too? Hence the selection process, psychometric testing and interviews before even getting access to a training course? Someone's suitability is important for any job of this nature. Fact is, if you are suitable to be a Bus Driver, the training course will last you a matter of weeks. If you're suitable to be a Train Driver, the training course will last you 12 - 18 months.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Or possibly not. Years ago an 18-year-old friend passed his car test on the Thursday, went for a test drive with his local bus company the following day and started his formal (minibus) training course on the Monday. That was with a company which is today a significant part of a major national group, not some fly-by-night operation.
Granted it was back in the 90s, and I'd like to think that bus companies are a bit more choosy nowadays, but I suspect it all depends how desperate they are for drivers...

There are still many that train 18 year olds up to drive double deckers around city centres.

To fill a gap in my studies a couple of years ago I took up bus driving, and it was essentially my first experience of driving without adult supervision (having passed my car test a year before, then spent the year forgetting how to drive..). Sure, experience driving would help, but it's certainly not a requirement.

 

[Walrus]

Do you not think that's applicable to Train Driving too?

Of course I do, that was part of the point.

There are still many that train 18 year olds up to drive double deckers around city centres.

Quite a scary prospect tbh given that it's the most at risk age group for crashes

 

[Val3ntine]

Now I've not read all the replies to this, but I thought I'd add my 2 cents.

For a bus driver "To start training with a company, you must hold a full EU driving licence and be aged at least 18. Some employers prefer to take on trainees who have held their driving licence for one or two years or who are aged over 21. Check with them directly for details."

So to become a bus driver, you need to have spent your time learning to drive a car, and most likely the company will want you to have been driving for a certain amount of time before they'd consider you, then add on the time bus driver training takes.

This is easily often well over 2 years of time to become a bus driver. In super ideal conditions you can become a train driver in around a year. I'm not entirely sure where the idea of bus driver training being so quick coming from. You add up the time it takes from not being able to drive a road vehicle to being a qualified bus driver, in the same way you start from the time you aren't able to drive a railroad vehicle to being a qualified train driver.

Hmmmm, totally see your point, but a big but here is the requirements to have 1 year driving experience is literally just asking that you’ve passed your test more than a year ago which is a bit flawed.
I’m an ex Bus Driver passed my car driving test @ 18. Got my first car but only drove for about a month before it gave up on me, couldn’t afford another one as all my money had been put into that silly banger. Applied for Bus Driver @ 19 and got through the 3-4 weeks training okay.
So yes ideally what they want 1 year driving experience, but they may as well not bother and accept people who have passed their test the same day as potentially they would TECHNICALLY be more experienced than someone like me for example who hadn’t driven for about 11 months.
There are a lot of flaws in the bus driving training I could speak of, some of my ex colleagues I would’t want my family members on their bus honestly. There are some great ones out there too. I just think maybe strict psychometric testing during the recruitment process or something could be a massive solution but I don’t see that ever happening unfortunately due to costs when they can get away with how they are doing it now.

 

[geoffk]

Thanks! at last an objective and informative answer to the question from someone. And whilst I agree that the 2 jobs are like apples and oranges, I would contest that both are as highly skilled as each other and are of equal worth... and out of interest it's estimated that 30% of new entrants to bus driving leave the industry completely within 2 years... and it is known wisdom that a large majority do so due to the stress of feeling unsupported and under trained for the stressful, highly responsible job they do.... oh and of course there's also the point that wages in the bus industry have been driven so low now that most drivers feel that they aren't paid enough for the responsibility!

I'm sure no-one who has posted here thinks that bus driving is an unskilled job, but this Youtube clip is worth watching by anyone who is not sure (musical accompaniment by Brahms)

 

[smerlin]

I literally don't know where to start. As a owner of a train licence, and a HGV licence (with ability to drive under blue light conditions) I can categorically say, train driving is easily 50times harder than bus driving, now that's not to "did" bus drivers at all. It's just a widely different skill, that is so much harder than it looks.

 

[ninhog]

I can confirm that having driven buses and trains, train driving is significantly more difficult and requires far more dedication and skill than driving buses.
Driving buses by comparison is an absolute walk in the park for far more reasons than I can explain.

 

[387star]

I can confirm that having driven buses and trains, train driving is significantly more difficult and requires far more dedication and skill than driving buses.
Driving buses by comparison is an absolute walk in the park for far more reasons than I can explain.

Driving buses through central London looks challenging. Depends how easy you fund steering

 

[PaulBusDriver]

I really find it hard to believe you consider bus driving easy. As a fellow driver I'd say being a driver, conductor and basically only port of call for a customer all in one you would agree it is quite difficult. Thats not to say Train driving is easy by comparison but there is a whole lot more respect for trains, the conditions they operate in and the way Train Drivers are treated.
Train drivers would not get approached by passengers and distracted whilst they are driving, this regularly happens on a bus.
Other Rail users will not take unpredictable and dangerous actions(most of the time) meaning you would have you try and take evasive action. This regularly happens on the roads.
There is a higher level of care and respect on the railways and rightfully so, but the emphasis for responsibility in the PCV industry generally falls squarely on the driver and the conditions we have to operate in are far from perfect.

 

[Stigy]

I really find it hard to believe you consider bus driving easy. As a fellow driver I'd say being a driver, conductor and basically only port of call for a customer all in one you would agree it is quite difficult. Thats not to say Train driving is easy by comparison but there is a whole lot more respect for trains, the conditions they operate in and the way Train Drivers are treated.
Train drivers would not get approached by passengers and distracted whilst they are driving, this regularly happens on a bus.
Other Rail users will not take unpredictable and dangerous actions(most of the time) meaning you would have you try and take evasive action. This regularly happens on the roads.
There is a higher level of care and respect on the railways and rightfully so, but the emphasis for responsibility in the PCV industry generally falls squarely on the driver and the conditions we have to operate in are far from perfect.

I guess it depends what trains you’re driving as to whether you get disturbs....do trams count? I have no experience, but I can see tram drivers getting disturbed quit frequently due to being quite open in terms of their cab being like a bus driver’s in that there’s just Perspex between customers and driver?

 

[387star]

I've had to go back and reset smoke alarms at 0200 at Kentish town on a 12 car train so drivers aren't always in their sealed cabs for sure.