Train fire between Lee and Mottingham.

[BestWestern]

If everyone suddenly gets off in a panic, there's not much any amount of crew can do.

As I said before though, if the driver was unconscious or worse after an incident, wouldn't the guard take up the duties of the driver and the passengers are in exactly the same situation? And if the guard can't walk through a busy train or the PA system is broken?

Sure, a guard would help - but not necessarily by much.

There is little that anybody can do if a trainload of punters all decide en masse to bail out, but I would still argue that a firm authoritive presence at the lineside to shepherd them to safety and provide immediate assistance is a very worthwhile thing. And I would imagine that most passengers would share that view. Being left to it alongside a stricken train miles from anywhere is a frightening circumstance for most I would think.

If the Driver is 'unavailable' then yes, the Guard will take on his duties, and then yes we are back to square one. Whilst that isn't ideal, that in itself does however raise another sensible argument for having that second staff member on the train, but then we are talking major incidents rather than fairly minor situations which are made worse by the lack of staffing supervision available.

 

[jon0844]

In the event of a mass evacuation of a 4, 8 or 12 car train. One guard isn't going to be able to do much either - even with a giant megaphone.

This incident isn't really the sort of incident you can effectively use to argue against DOO. Hopefully there won't be one that does!

 

[BestWestern]

In the event of a mass evacuation of a 4, 8 or 12 car train. One guard isn't going to be able to do much either - even with a giant megaphone.

This incident isn't really the sort of incident you can effectively use to argue against DOO. Hopefully there won't be one that does!

Again, I agree that there is not much that can be done about the evacuation itself. But once people are lineside and away from the perceived danger the chances are they will look to someone in authority for guidance on what to do next. Dealing with several hundred people is not ever going to be an easy task for one person of course, which is why we are also trained to designate others to assist wherever possible. This may include on board staff such as catering crew, off-duty staff travelling, police officers, or failing that any passengers who may be able to help in such a situation, for example forces personnel etc. Most trains will have additional hi-viz vests available in the emergency cabinets which help to identify these people. These additional people would usually be instructed to 'herd' the passengers so to speak, in whichever location has been identified as the most appropriate, and specifically focus on trying to stop them from wandering off up the track, into potential grave danger.

It's never going to be an easy task, or an exact science, but it will always be a massive advantage over having nobody on hand to do anything.

 

[jamesr]

I fail to believe that any person, rail staff or not, would draw the conclusion that the unknown risk of staying in a crowded carriage full of smoke was a better option than the unknown risk of jumping onto a "landside" verge of ballast and moving off the railway a.s.a.p., which is what these people seem to have done.

 

[island]

I fail to believe that any person, rail staff or not, would draw the conclusion that the unknown risk of staying in a crowded carriage full of smoke was a better option than the unknown risk of jumping onto a "landside" verge of ballast and moving off the railway a.s.a.p., which is what these people seem to have done.

Indeed. I was on a flight safety course during the week and had twice to evacuate a dark smoke-filled cabin simulation. It is at best non-obvious to rail passengers in the carriage in question that it is safer to remain onboard.