Train fire Dalston Kingsland

[wls1]

Seen on twitter that a train was on fire at DLK, around 0710 ish, walking wounded. Any more info?

 

[philjo]

BBC report:

Workman's drill caused Dalston train evacuation
Posted at 9:05

The London Fire Brigade has said a workman's drill on board the train had overheated and started smoking.

Firefighters extinguished the battery and placed it in a bucket of sand.

The brigade was to the "small incident" at 07:11 and the incident was over by 07:44.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38903863

 

[Metroman62]

I had a member of staff on this train. She said that there was a panic as people tried to get off the train and out of the station. However some ended up at the end of the platform and actually climbed the fence to get away from the train. As I suspect is common in such situations, no one actually knew what was happening, but the "panic" spread after a few people were seen running and then others joined in trying to get away. So a small incident was very frightening.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At some point this lithium battery thing is going to result in someone getting killed, most probably on an aircraft - how long before there are legal changes to regulate the typically poor quality Chinese imported batteries that are causing these problems?

 

[scott118]

BTP statement

http://media.btp.police.uk/r/13771/incident_at_dalston_junction_

We were called at 7.10am today to Dalston Kingsland to reports of smoke on a train.

Several passengers left the train as a result of the smoke.

Fire service also attended and established that a workman’s drill had overheated and was smoking.

A number of people have sustained minor injuries and were treated by the ambulance service at the scene.

This incident is not being treated as suspicious at this time.

 

[Deepgreen]

Have I missed the key point here - was the drill being used at the time (on board in service?!) or did a passenger's (the so-called "workman") drill battery simply overheat in 'passive' mode?

 

[Dolive22]

It appears to have been in the luggage of a passenger, although I have no special knowledge. It was on a train with passengers on board, so presumably BTP would be taking a rather different line if someone was using the drill. I assume it became defective on it's own, but I suppose it might have turned on in the luggage, and then caught fire, but it was a battery fault.

I saw reports of people evacuating on to the tracks, does anyone know anything about that? I've used the station before and can't see why people would have to get out on to the tracks.

 

[Varney]

Have I missed the key point here - was the drill being used at the time (on board in service?!) or did a passenger's (the so-called "workman") drill battery simply overheat in 'passive' mode?

Unlikely to overheat unless being charged or damaged.

Possibly being charged from one of the train's (not for public use) sockets?

 

[AlanFry1]

It appears to have been in the luggage of a passenger, although I have no special knowledge. It was on a train with passengers on board, so presumably BTP would be taking a rather different line if someone was using the drill. I assume it became defective on it's own, but I suppose it might have turned on in the luggage, and then caught fire, but it was a battery fault.

I saw reports of people evacuating on to the tracks, does anyone know anything about that? I've used the station before and can't see why people would have to get out on to the tracks.

Platforms are narrow and busy at the best of times.

 

[daikilo]

At some point this lithium battery thing is going to result in someone getting killed, most probably on an aircraft - how long before there are legal changes to regulate the typically poor quality Chinese imported batteries that are causing these problems?

Neil, it's already happened, a 747 Freighter in the Gulf, crew died.

The problem with certain Lithium battery constructions or chemistry is that they can run away and are then very difficult or impossible to then control. The early 787 main battery ffires, the Galaxy Note 7 fires and now some e-cigarette fires are all examples where testing failed to identify unsafe conditions, with local damage likely being the origin in the latter case. Yes, some can burn and will and not enough warnings are given.

 

[Llanigraham]

Unlikely to overheat unless being charged or damaged.

Possibly being charged from one of the train's (not for public use) sockets?

The can overheat at any time, as has been shown by the one that caught fire in the hold of an aircraft

 

[Dolive22]

Varney, I had missed that possibility. Would it be too busy to make access practical at that time?

As I understand it, they can catch fire when not being charged (I think mainly, but not exclusively, if something shorts out the + and -, which is why there are fewer restrictions on shipping them when fitted to the device they are for) but they catch fire much more often while charging or discharging.

If BTP discover that he was dishonestly abstracting electricity (you can't steal electricity, something they discovered at trial, shortly before they created the dishonestly abstracting offence), will BTP charge him?

 

[Deepgreen]

Varney, I had missed that possibility. Would it be too busy to make access practical at that time?

As I understand it, they can catch fire when not being charged (I think mainly, but not exclusively, if something shorts out the + and -, which is why there are fewer restrictions on shipping them when fitted to the device they are for) but they catch fire much more often while charging or discharging.

If BTP discover that he was dishonestly abstracting electricity (you can't steal electricity, something they discovered at trial, shortly before they created the dishonestly abstracting offence), will BTP charge him?

From which socket? Sorry!

 

[Dolive22]

Some (or all?) London Overground stock has sockets, I think for use by cleaners. I always assumed it was turned off when in passenger service.

 

[Tio Terry]

Some more information from the BBC:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38903863

 

[Kite159]

Some more information from the BBC:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38903863

Just in case people can't read the BBC site (or it changes as the day goes along)

Four people needed treatment for minor injuries after a battery pack on a workman's drill overheated and began smoking on a London commuter train.

The train carriage was evacuated and the station it was at - Dalston Kingsland - was temporarily evacuated.

London Fire Brigade confirmed it was called at 07:11 GMT and the incident was dealt with by 07:24.

Images from the scene showed people standing alongside the tracks and platform at the east London station.

In a statement, the London Fire Brigade said: "Firefighters have dealt with a small incident on a train at Dalston Kingsland station this morning.

"A workman's drill had overheated and started smoking. Firefighters extinguished the battery and placed it in a bucket of sand."

London Ambulance Service said it treated "four patients for minor injuries, including head, leg and arm injuries; and took them to a hospital in east London."

Lucky it was Dalston Kingsland rather than Dalston 'Junction' with the added hazard of the 3rd rail

 

[Joe Paxton]

Unfortunate there was a panic, but worth bearing in mind the government and police's advice to "run, hide, tell" in the event of getting caught up in a terrorist incident, though that advice is really intended for a gun attack.

The train would have been busy enough at that time, and the stairs to exit the platform are a bit of a choke point, so I can see why people might have moved the other way off the platform away from the danger.

I think it highly unlikely the workman was charging their drill from the socket on the train, though the way this discussion is going it looks like the forum's hive mind may have already come to this erroneous conclusion!

 

[Dolive22]

Has "run, hide, tell" really replaced "Evacuate calmly" in the mind of the public as advice for fire and suspect packages?

LOCOG and a very (and very justifiably) security sensitive employer have got me better trained than most, but I assumed most people still associated both smoke and suspect packages with evacuation.

 

[londonbridge]

Huffington Post were reporting it as an on-board 'explosion'........

 

[Joe Paxton]

Has "run, hide, tell" really replaced "Evacuate calmly" in the mind of the public as advice for fire and suspect packages?

I hope not, and to be honest despite the fact that I brought it up, I don't hear people talking about "run, hide, tell" as some sort of generic guidance as to what to do in an 'incident'.

One thing I would say is that when it comes to witness reports, a few loud and panicky people might be what sticks in the mind more than the majority who didn't react in such a manner. Of course, not having been there, I'm just postulating...

 

[PowerLee]

Any information if it was a genuine battery or one of the many fakes that are around.

The amount of fake / copy battery packs available for power tools is eye opening.

I own lithium ion battery packs for my power tools, there genuine batteries & have protection built in to stop them suffering a thermal run away.

 

[AlterEgo]

The Government's "run hide tell" advice applies to gun attacks, not suspect packages.

http://www.npcc.police.uk/NPCCBusinessAreas/WeaponAttacksStaySafe.aspx

Public guidance for firearms and weapons attacks released.

An information film that provides advice on the steps to take to keep safe in the event of a firearms or weapons attack has been released to the public today by National Counter Terrorism Policing.

Recent events around the world remind us all of the terrorist threat we face, which in
the UK is considered as ‘SEVERE’, meaning an attack is highly likely. Police and security
agencies are working tirelessly to protect the public but it is also important that communities
remain vigilant and aware of how to protect themselves if the need arises.

The four minute film, Stay Safe: Firearms and Weapons Attack sets out three key steps for keeping safe. The film is accompanied by an online information leaflet.

The film and leaflet advise that if you are caught up in an incident to ‘run, hide and tell’ - guidance which can be applied to many places and situations.

 

[Joe Paxton]

The Government's "run hide tell" advice applies to gun attacks, not suspect packages.

http://www.npcc.police.uk/NPCCBusinessAreas/WeaponAttacksStaySafe.aspx

I did mention that above.

However if people actually think a package is going to explode, it's not an unreasonable desire to want to vacate the vicinity pronto.

 

[Bevan Price]

With older trains, it would have been possible to open a window and throw the burning battery (or equipment) onto the lineside. No longer possible with air-conditioned stock and no opening windows.

 

[theageofthetra]

Huffington Post were reporting it as an on-board 'explosion'........

Says everything you need to know about them.

 

[LLivery]

Some (or all?) London Overground stock has sockets, I think for use by cleaners. I always assumed it was turned off when in passenger service.

I guess you missed the community police officer who got a passenger arrested for using the plugs in 2015. It was a very stupid overreaction which ended up in "de-arresting". I see the LO plugs being used often to charge phones.

 

[najaB]

With older trains, it would have been possible to open a window and throw the burning battery (or equipment) onto the lineside.

If (as it appears to be) it was a lithium battery fire, nobody was going to be picking it up and throwing it anywhere. By the time you detect the fire the battery pack is usually well alight and putting out a LOT of heat. Here's a lab example:

[youtube]HCGtRgBUHX8[/youtube]​

 

[313103]

Deleted!

 

[Joe Paxton]

I wonder when the ONLY member of traincrew became aware of the situation?

I wonder what, if any, difference to the situation a second member of train crew might have had.

 

[313103]

I wonder what, if any, difference to the situation a second member of train crew might have had.

Well we will never know, will we.