Train hits crashed light aircraft in Los Angeles

[Taunton]

Passenger train in Los Angeles hits light aircraft which had crashed on the tracks approaching an airport

Train Crashes into Plane - Whiteman Airport Pacoima, California [WARNING: GRAPHIC FOOTAGE] - YouTube

The extraordinary thing is that several police cars had come out to the aircraft accident, taped off adjacent streets (as can be seen), and were assisting the pilot out of the aircraft, yet nothing was done to stop the railway, the barriers came down and the train came through at high speed.

 

[Nippy]

According to the Daily Mail (I know) the plane crashed and was hit 20 minutes later

Moment LAPD rescues bloodied pilot who crashed plane onto train tracks

Officers are seen prying away the metal wreckage in order to get the unidentified pilot out of the destroyed Cessna 172. The plane crashed into the train tracks right outside Whiteman Airport.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Falcon1200]

The extraordinary thing is that several police cars had come out to the aircraft accident, taped off adjacent streets (as can be seen), and were assisting the pilot out of the aircraft, yet nothing was done to stop the railway, the barriers came down and the train came through at high speed.

Which is astonishing; In the UK Police Control Rooms have Emergency contact numbers for Network Rail Controls to report such incidents, and would there not be phones at the LC too ?

 

[Western Lord]

What is more astonishing is why there is an airfield there at all. Satellite views show that it is entirely surrounded by built up areas, any problem on approach or take off is going to result in ploughing into buildings or the busy railway line.

 

[Spamcan81]

What is more astonishing is why there is an airfield there at all. Satellite views show that it is entirely surrounded by built up areas, any problem on approach or take off is going to result in ploughing into buildings or the busy railway line.

Plenty of airports/airfields around the world in built up areas.

 

[NSEFAN]

What is more astonishing is why there is an airfield there at all. Satellite views show that it is entirely surrounded by built up areas, any problem on approach or take off is going to result in ploughing into buildings or the busy railway line.

Could be a legacy runway that has seen buildings encroach upon it over the years?

The person filming that video would have done well to get out of the way as the train approached. Dumb luck they weren't hit by debris.

 

[jopsuk]

Twenty minutes is incredible and (in my view) the police should have massive liability here. There's notices with the emergency contact the crossing

As to why there's an an airport there? It'll be because it was empty scrub when it was built.

 

[edwin_m]

Which is astonishing; In the UK Police Control Rooms have Emergency contact numbers for Network Rail Controls to report such incidents, and would there not be phones at the LC too ?

If it was "right outside the airport" then it should be the airport tower that sees what's happening and contacts the railroad.

 

[TheEdge]

What is more astonishing is why there is an airfield there at all. Satellite views show that it is entirely surrounded by built up areas, any problem on approach or take off is going to result in ploughing into buildings or the busy railway line.

London City being surrounded by open savannah

 

[Ediswan]

Could be a legacy runway that has seen buildings encroach upon it over the years?

Exactly. Standard US urban sprawl.

Edit: It is also worth noting that the attitude to general aviation (private aircraft) in the US is very much more positive than in the UK. Having a convenient local airfield is more likely to be seen as an asset rather than a nuisance.

 

[the sniper]

Well, add that to the list of things that American trains have defeated in battle... (Though it's probably happened before!)

If it were here, I'd say lessons will be learnt. There, it is almost par for the course. Just another day on the Railroad.

 

[Falcon1200]

If it was "right outside the airport" then it should be the airport tower that sees what's happening and contacts the railroad.

Agree, if they were aware of it, but the Police should still have advised the railroad too - Better to have it reported twice than, seemingly, not at all !

 

[jopsuk]

additional thing to be surprised by: the crash happened in broad daylight. The railway is straight and level for over two miles before the crash site. Appearances can be deceiving but it'll be interesting to know quite how fast the train was going and how that compares to line speed.

 

[D6130]

Appearances can be deceiving but it'll be interesting to know quite how fast the train was going and how that compares to line speed.

The usual speed limit for double track straight and level passenger railroads in the US - except for the North-East Corridor - is 79 mph. In this case, I don't know how far away the previous or next stopping stations were for the train in question but, looking at the video, I would estimate that the train was travelling at at least 70.

 

[Ediswan]

If it were here, I'd say lessons will be learnt. There, it is almost par for the course. Just another day on the Railroad.

Sorry, couldn't resist: Aircraft crashes close to people on Graveley golf course

The incident happened yesterday (Sunday) afternoon at Chesfield Downs Golf and Country Club in Graveley, which is situated next to an airstrip for light aircraft.

No suggestion of any injuries.

 

[ac6000cw]

In this case, I don't know how far away the previous or next stopping stations were for the train in question

It should be a Metrolink 'Antelope Valley' line train, and there are station stops (Sun Valley and Sylmar/San Fernando) for all trains on either side of the crash site. It's 7-8 minutes scheduled running time stop to stop for the 6.6 miles between Sun Valley and Sylmar/San Fernando stations, so it'll be running pretty hard.

 

[alxndr]

Which is astonishing; In the UK Police Control Rooms have Emergency contact numbers for Network Rail Controls to report such incidents, and would there not be phones at the LC too ?

What’s even more astonishing to me is the attitude of (presumably American) people I’ve found talking about this on other sites. They seem to see nothing wrong with the actions of the police and their seeming lack of attempt to do anything to stop trains. Their view seems to be that trying to contact anyone to stop trains would at best be pointless, at worst, dangerous.

American attitudes to railways never fail to baffle (and terrify) me.

 

[GB]

additional thing to be surprised by: the crash happened in broad daylight. The railway is straight and level for over two miles before the crash site. Appearances can be deceiving but it'll be interesting to know quite how fast the train was going and how that compares to line speed.

Might be straight but the track appears to rise and dip in the distance. That with heat haze is probably enough to obscure the distance at least partially.

ATC here for anyone interested:

 

[Busaholic]

I'm afraid I see it as absolute par for the course that no-one in the L.A. Police Dept gave a thought that a train might come down the track, with potential to kill or seriously injure many passengers plus train staff in addition to train occupants. I will admit to becoming rather addicted to You Tube videos of American police chases, a large number featuring Californians, and there's what I regard as a collective madness on show,and not just by the criminals being 'chased'. For anyone who doesn't know, police policy there is that any car failing to stop as requested, no matter how it's being driven and by whom, is to be 'tailed' for as long as it takes, which in the case of L.A. can become hours. This 'tailing' can involve dozens of police vehicles, marked and unmarked, and police and TV/radio helicopters, often broadcasting live. There is rarely any attempt to bring the vehicle to a stop, even if it's only being driven at 30 mph, which it surprisingly often is. More commonly, other cars get damaged and lives get disrupted, even ended. The mantra appears to be that no police officer must get injured, let alone killed, during the chase but the public are co-lateral damage, Even when a car being driven by a 68 year old grandmother lone occupant comes to a halt, dozens of armed police must take position yards away and try to coax her from the car in case she comes out armed and dangerous and puts paid to them all! This can take a further hour, in which time all traffic for miles around comes to a grinding halt. It's madness and overkill, but everyone involved on the 'authority' side is wedded to it, hence the situation with this plane on a railway where nobody gets delegated to find out whether a train might just suddenly appear on that track: if nothing else, why did nobody start running up and down those tracks ready to wave down a train and, potentially, avert or make far less likely a deadly outcome? Group thinking leads to group ignorance.

 

[the sniper]

The mantra appears to be that no police officer must get injured, let alone killed, during the chase but the public are co-lateral damage,

Isn't it more an issue of liability if anything goes wrong, resulting in injuries to the public or suspect(s), while attempting to forcibly stop them? There's a school of thought amongst the 'defund the police' leaning types that most offenders shouldn't even be chased at all, due to the risk it poses, but 'picked up later'...

As you say, the offenders often only drive relatively slowly because they know they don't need to go any quicker.

if nothing else, why did nobody start running up and down those tracks ready to wave down a train and, potentially, avert or make far less likely a deadly outcome? Group thinking leads to group ignorance.

That wouldn't have been the best idea either.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

What’s even more astonishing to me is the attitude of (presumably American) people I’ve found talking about this on other sites. They seem to see nothing wrong with the actions of the police and their seeming lack of attempt to do anything to stop trains. Their view seems to be that trying to contact anyone to stop trains would at best be pointless, at worst, dangerous.

One of the police officers at the scene said that he had contacted Metrolink.

Reportedly the train hit the plane only five minutes after police arrived at the scene.

A small plane crashed on train tracks in Los Angeles at 2:10 pm on Sunday. Police arrived just moments later and, heroically, removed the injured pilot in record speed. Seconds after clearing the plane, at 2:15, a train barreled into the plane, shattering it to pieces.

Watch incredible rescue of pilot from plane wreckage that, moments later, is smashed by train

A small plane crashed on train tracks in Los Angeles at 2:10 pm on Sunday. Police arrived just moments later and, heroically, removed the injured pilot in record speed. Seconds…

boingboing.net

 

[Meerkat]

I'm afraid I see it as absolute par for the course that no-one in the L.A. Police Dept gave a thought that a train might come down the track

In the clip I saw it looked like one officer was watching the line, so as to tell the rescuers when to run.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Not sure about the exact circumstances but if level crossing barriers are destroyed (as the plane seems to have done here) would this automatically send some kind of warning to the railway company or drivers of trains on the line approaching the damaged crossing?
I sometimes wonder about that when about to drive through open level crossing barriers in the UK. If the barriers or system suddenly became faulty, would the trains still run through regardless?

Not sure about the exact circumstances but if level crossing barriers are destroyed (as the plane seems to have done here) would this automatically send some kind of warning to the railway company or drivers of trains on the line approaching the damaged crossing?
I sometimes wonder about that when about to drive through open level crossing barriers in the UK. If the barriers or system suddenly became faulty, would the trains still run through regardless?

Actually on closer inspection the barriers seem intact and functional before and after the train goes past. But maybe vandalising a barrier is one way for owners of a stranded vehicle (aircraft, boat etc) to alert the authorities - rather than phoning up and being held listening to Greensleeves for vital minutes.

 

[Falcon1200]

rather than phoning up and being held listening to Greensleeves for vital minutes.

The phones at UK LCs connect direct to the Signaller controlling the line, would the same not apply in the USA (only to Dispatcher instead of Signaller) ?

 

[Ediswan]

The phones at UK LCs connect direct to the Signaller controlling the line, would the same not apply in the USA (only to Dispatcher instead of Signaller) ?

I looked at the crossing on Google, did not spot any dedicated phones. There are signs with a 1-888 number to call. That appears to be the MetroLink 'Crossing Hotline'.
https://metrolinktrains.com/rider-info/safety--security/rail-safety/

Since September 2015, all railroad lines nationwide were required to post Emergency Notification System (ENS) signs at every public and private railroad crossing. The requirement was established by the Federal Railroad Administration to make reporting problems and emergencies impacting railroads easier.
The ENS signs are blue and white, provide an emergency phone number and a railroad crossing ID number so that drivers or pedestrians who notice problems on the tracks can help stop a train before an incident occurs. The signs are in close proximity to the crossings and will be visible to the first car stopped at a crossing when they look through their right passenger window. Every approach to a railroad crossing must have an ENS sign.
These signs can be used to report things such as suspicious activity on the tracks, stalled vehicles or a warning device malfunction.
If your vehicle ever stalls on tracks, immediately evacuate your car and call the number listed on the ENS sign at the crossing.

 

[ac6000cw]

I looked at the crossing on Google, did not spot any dedicated phones.

AFAIK (based on personal experience from visits over there) that's the usual situation in the US - signs with a phone number but no phones.

 

[Falcon1200]

Thanks for the updates @Ediswan and @ac6000cw. A different system from the UK certainly, which does not appear to have worked, or been used, in this case !

 

[Trackman]

Anyone know how the pilot is now?

 

[mmh]

I'm afraid I see it as absolute par for the course that no-one in the L.A. Police Dept gave a thought that a train might come down the track, with potential to kill or seriously injure many passengers plus train staff in addition to train occupants. I will admit to becoming rather addicted to You Tube videos of American police chases, a large number featuring Californians, and there's what I regard as a collective madness on show,and not just by the criminals being 'chased'. For anyone who doesn't know, police policy there is that any car failing to stop as requested, no matter how it's being driven and by whom, is to be 'tailed' for as long as it takes, which in the case of L.A. can become hours. This 'tailing' can involve dozens of police vehicles, marked and unmarked, and police and TV/radio helicopters, often broadcasting live. There is rarely any attempt to bring the vehicle to a stop, even if it's only being driven at 30 mph, which it surprisingly often is. More commonly, other cars get damaged and lives get disrupted, even ended. The mantra appears to be that no police officer must get injured, let alone killed, during the chase but the public are co-lateral damage, Even when a car being driven by a 68 year old grandmother lone occupant comes to a halt, dozens of armed police must take position yards away and try to coax her from the car in case she comes out armed and dangerous and puts paid to them all! This can take a further hour, in which time all traffic for miles around comes to a grinding halt. It's madness and overkill, but everyone involved on the 'authority' side is wedded to it, hence the situation with this plane on a railway where nobody gets delegated to find out whether a train might just suddenly appear on that track: if nothing else, why did nobody start running up and down those tracks ready to wave down a train and, potentially, avert or make far less likely a deadly outcome? Group thinking leads to group ignorance.

This feels like massive hyperbole, for numerous reasons.

- The US is, traditionally, especially in states such as California, a far more risk adverse culture than Britain.

- It is also a far more litigious culture, and everyone, not least police officers, is well aware it is.

- Your TV watching seems restricted, there are many US TV shows showing police acting in ways ours wouldn't dream of doing, at least not until very recently. Give "World's Wildest Police Videos" (if I remember the name right) a go. It'll explain why it's not uncommon to see US police cars covered in dents and scrapes. British police cars are immaculate in comparison.

- A complication in the US is the far more localised organisation of things like police forces and local authorities. I don't know the Los Angeles area, but it's usual for transport networks to have their own police force. Yes, I know we have the BTP, but imagine if we had Merseyrail Police, London Underground police, and their limits were very rigidly defined - bolstered by that litigious culture.

 

[Ediswan]

Thanks for the updates @Ediswan and @ac6000cw. A different system from the UK certainly, which does not appear to have worked, or been used, in this case !

There are numerous reports that the police did call Metrolink. Report is that the plane crashed at 14:09L. Bodycam shows the train arriving at 14:15:05L. Not much time.