Train left 8/9 minutes early!

[43167]

I did the 1430 St Pancras-Leeds today from Wakefield Westgate where its advertised to depart at 1807, but it departed nearly 4 minutes early today & not surprising it was held a couple of minutes outside Leeds.

 

[O L Leigh]

The problem is that you've already publicised a TT to allow for the engineering works, so how do you go back when the works themselves are cancelled or finish early?

Passengers are likely to have looked up the TT's for their trains in the light of these works and will expect them to run at certain times. Therefore it is far better to persist with the amended times in the face of early completion of engineering works than to revert to the usual timings, as passengers won't have any way of knowing that the timings have been changed at such short notice. Even if this means that trains sit for a time at a given location, keeping the timings regular ensures that passengers don't find that the train they expected at a certain time has already gone and left them.

O L Leigh

 

[455driver]

If you want to run to the revised timings then it will be off the trains and onto the buses!
If the pax knew that the line was actually open do you think they would accept that, I don't.
Don't think that you could just extend the services on the revised timings to cover the "not closed" section of line because then all the train crew and stock diagrams would be wrong!
So all you can do is revert to the normal timings which wouldn't be in the system for that day.

 

[O L Leigh]

Which is the point of my post. Namely, just what were FCC supposed to do about it.

If I'd planned to go out that evening and needed to catch a train from point A to point B I would have looked up the times before setting out. If I'd then got to the station in good time to catch my train only to find that it had already gone I would have been mightily ****ed off. This wouldn't matter so much if the timings were not so different, but in this case they were.

I'm not suggesting that the modified service be extended. My point was that the ADVERTISED service should have been persisted with on the basis that this was the service the passengers would be expecting to be run. This doesn't stop the operator running additional services if they had the staff, stock and will to do so, but the advertised service should really have been left alone.

O L Leigh

 

[Greenback]

As a customer, I would much prefer it if the advertised special timetables were retained. I was recently on a FGW HST which was held for several minutesat every station between Cardiff and Swansea. The Train Manager informed us that this was because the scheduled engineering works had bene cancelled, and the replacement bus service had been axed, with trains run to the same timings.

In my view, this was far easier for customers who had probably planend their journey well in advance. Had the trains not kept to the booked bus departure times, they would have left earlier, leaving passengers behind to wait for the enxt train in an hours time!

And of course, as I was expecting a wretched bus, I was delighted to be on a train instead, even a refurbished HST is more comfortable than a coach!

 

[Sapphire Blue]

All we need now is someone to get a PF because their train left, early, before 9.30 and these boards will go into total meltdown

 

[jon0844]

Well one thing I do know is that it is always based on the scheduled time, not the actual time. I did once buy an off-peak ticket and board what was a delayed train that was due into King's Cross before 10am.

And I was 'caught' by an RPI, who used discretion and accepted the argument that myself, and others who had done the same thing, couldn't have known (it was before Hatfield had any screens or announcements).

 

[jon0844]

The 2341 KGX to LET tonight was another weird FCC bit of scheduling. This time, the train was due to call at Hatfield at 0016 (it did), Welwyn Garden City at 0024 - then leaving at 0031 and getting to Welwyn North at 0034.

And, the driver DID wait this time, which I bet really annoyed people on the train who won't have appreciated being kept on a 3-car 313 that had vomit and beer that was stinking out the country end, and more drink thrown all over the seats in the middle car.

Any idea why these trains are timetabled like this? There was no engineering work today!

Of course, I'm not blaming the driver at all - who is just doing what he or she is told to do.

 

[barrykas]

The 2341 KGX to LET tonight was another weird FCC bit of scheduling. This time, the train was due to call at Hatfield at 0016 (it did), Welwyn Garden City at 0024 - then leaving at 0031 and getting to Welwyn North at 0034.

Any idea why these trains are timetabled like this? There was no engineering work today!

Looking at Live Departures, the 00:04 Kings Cross to Cambridge is booked to overtake the 23:41 Kings Cross to Letchworth at Welwyn Garden City, the former train being booked at WGC at 00:27.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[jon0844]

Very odd planning! And, the 0004 got to WGC a minute early, at 0026. I wonder if anyone was smart enough to change train if the faster service also stopped at their station.

 

[stut]

There's a few early evening FCC services that regularly get held - the 1820(ish) from Peterborough has a while at Huntingdon, but I've never known the driver not to announce that it's going to wait. There is (or certainly was) a northbound with a silly wait somewhere (outside St Neots, perhaps) of over 10 minutes due to freight.

Isn't there an expression about a foolish consistency..? Perhaps this isn't foolish.

I do remember, years ago, returning to Newcastle from the Cumbrian Coast line, only to be sat for 15 minutes at Sellafield. We asked the guard if there was a delay, he replied that no, we jilt had to wait for a freight train to clear the single track ahead. We asked when it was due. He replied "oh, no, it doesn't run today".

 

[Class377/5]

What happened with FCC tonight? They managed to have two (or three) identical services listed but going from different platforms tonight!

And when I got on the 2047 from King's Cross to Welwyn Garden City, it had ridiculous timings that saw it arriving early at stations and having to wait, and then being booked to arrive at Potters Bat at 2113 and leave at 2122! I was getting off at Potters Bar tonight, and saw the train leave at 2114.

Having now checked, this is what happened:

31/07/2010 2047 London Kings Cross [KGX] to Welwyn Garden City [WGC] 

Location	FD	Scheduled Arrival	Scheduled Departure	Expected Arrival	Expected Departure	Pl	Lateness	DR
      
London Kings Cross [KGX] 	2047	 	No log	6	  
KNGXBEL 	 	Pass	2048	Pass	No log	 	 	 
Finsbury Park [FPK] 	 2051	2053	2052	2053	3	On time	 
Harringay [HGY] 	 	 Pass	2055	Pass	2055	 	On time	 
Hornsey [HRN] 	 	 Pass	2056	Pass	2055	 	-1	 
Alexandra Palace [AAP] 	 Pass	2058	Pass	2055	 	-3	 
New Southgate [NSG] 	 2101	2102	2057	2102	3	On time	 
Oakleigh Park [OKL] 	 2105	2105	2104	2105	3	On time	 
New Barnet [NBA] 	 2107	2107	2106	2107	4	On time	 
Hadley Wood [HDW] 	 2109	2110	2109	2109	4	-1	 
Potters Bar [PBR] 	 	 2113	2122	2113	2113	4	-9	 
Brookmans Park [BPK] 	 2124	2125	2116	2116	4	-9	 
Welham Green [WMG] 	 2126	2127	2118	2119	2	-8	 
Hatfield [HAT] 	 	2130	2130	2122	2122	3	-8	 
Welwyn Garden City [WGC] 2135	 	2126	 	4	-9

So, from Potters Bar onwards, that's a lot of people who would have quite likely missed their train.

(And if you can check, you'll see ALL the trains tonight did that - including some arriving at WGC 10 minutes early!)

For the record, I know a driver could have a different schedule and I'm not suggesting any did anything wrong - and it would be crazy to wait for 9 minutes at Potters Bar - but how can a TOC mess things up? How long was this error in place on Saturday?

I can say with 99% certainty that the driver was not at fault. There is NO WAY on earth that any train would be scheduled to stop at a station for 9 minutes.

S/he MUST have had the correct schedule. However, for Joe Public that is no consolation. In any case, if all trains from 3pm today have been like this I am sure it has been reported to FCC by some angry passenger already.

Also, I don't feel there's any problem posting these times given that I was on that very train and can confirm its accuracy (well, until it went to the next station after I'd alighted). We can't pretend it didn't happen can we! However, I have edited it slightly.

I thought I'd just add that there has been a problem with the timetables uploaded into the data base. This is the reason for trains not running to the proper times. GN side of FCC has had a bigger problems than the TL but both sides have been affected.

All the trains were 9 or 10 minutes early. So, I'd say the drivers definitely had a different set of timings!

There is actually a peak train Brighton - Bedford thats timetabled in peak to sit at Blackfriars for 6mins. If the train ahead of it runs late or is cancelled then this train will actually arrive 10mins early. Part of this is becomes it comes via Tulse Hill which always slows the train down.