Train line ticket are lost in the post

[poppyanne]

Hi all, I hope this is the right place to post.

My problem is this.
I ordered 2 return tickets from Bournemouth to London at the beginning of November at a good price along with 2 oyster cards for my son's birthday. Anyway I haven't received them. I then called and was told they had been posted, but was informed eventually that the first line of the address was missing. ( i have checked on my account and the address is correct, but not on the confirmation email they have only just sent me !!) I then phoned the local Post office sorting office in the hope that they had them there in some pigeon hole ... No luck, they said that unless its tracked it would be sent back to sender. I Phoned train line back and was told they hadn't received them back but to keep phoning to check if they have been returned. But there was nothing else they can do.

Are they not in breach of contact if they have failed to deliver my tickets? and are they not still obliged to provide the rail journeys I have paid for ? or will they just chuck the returned tickets in the bin??

This is taken from their terms and conditions.
"If we fail to deliver any tickets to you for any reason within our control within a reasonable time prior to your departure time, any re-imbursement made by us of the costs of a replacement ticket or an alternative journey by train shall be no more than the cost of the nearest equivalent ticket purchased on the train or at the station."

Please help as my head is spinning and I really cannot afford to just go and buy more tickets.
And, Yes, My lesson is learnt. I will NEVER use train line again.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Never use Trainline anyway, because they charge fees that others don't, and they are not cheaper. Always buy from the TOC you are travelling with (for most of your journey if more than one) for the best deals.

But if you didn't for whatever reason enter the first address line or blanked it accidentally I don't see that it can be seen as their fault (other than that it's a bit rubbish if their system's validation doesn't block that).

TBH, I think vendors should stop offering 1st class post, it creates them (and you) these problems. They could use Royal Mail Tracked 24/48 instead. Certainly when I sell on eBay I never use any non-tracked method of postage even if I am asked to do so by a buyer.

 

[Clip]

When is your journey?

They will have to make an arrangement for you as they state and apart from the oyster then they could do tickets for you that you could pick up at the station from a machine and then reimburse you the cost of the oysters so you can pick them up in London.

Speak to them re the above today if your travel is for tomorrow or if not give it another day for the post to come and then speak to them tomorrow about it

 

[cuccir]

Can the Trainline prove it was you who entered the address incorrectly, and not something that went wrong with their website? If not, I'd suggest insisting that you entered it correctly and that it was their fault...

 

[AlterEgo]

When is your journey?

They will have to make an arrangement for you as they state

They don’t if the address was entered by the OP incorrectly.

 

[Hadders]

The OP is saying that the address is correct in their Trainline account which suggests that Trainline is as fault. They should make good the error.

If Trainline do not sort it out then I would pursue a claim via your credit/debit card issuer.

As others have said do not use Trainline in future as despite their advertising claims they are never, ever cheaper as they add booking and credit card fees that a train company booking site is not allowed to do.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The OP is saying that the address is correct in their Trainline account which suggests that Trainline is as fault.

It's possible the OP changed the delivery address, though.

I just don't think the option of non-tracked postage should be offered. It would solve all these issues to remove it. Tickets are too valuable for regular mail - they are equivalent to cash and need to be treated as if they were.

 

[AlterEgo]

The OP is saying that the address is correct in their Trainline account which suggests that Trainline is as fault. They should make good the error.

Which is more likely? A customer accidentally deleting with one keystroke, the first line of their address, or a random glitch in Trainline’s matrix? Experience would tell me the former.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Which is more likely? A customer accidentally deleting with one keystroke, the first line of their address, or a random glitch in Trainline’s matrix? Experience would tell me the former.

My thought as well, I've done similar things. You also tend to find autocomplete in the browser sometimes mucks with things like that.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Which is more likely? A customer accidentally deleting with one keystroke, the first line of their address, or a random glitch in Trainline’s matrix? Experience would tell me the former.

And my experience (as a website developer) tells me it could be either. Some of the random bugs I have seen are beyond amazing. I have a massive amount of respect to our QA guys for finding some of the stuff they do!

 

[pemma]

Always buy from the TOC you are travelling with (for most of your journey if more than one) for the best deals.

That's not always the case. Some tickets (even Advances) are the same price from any train operator website, so there may be no point in registering for an account with say Southeastern if you have an account with GWR already. First Group sites (GWR and TPE) seem to give Nectar points on any journeys - not just those with a First Group TOC.

 

[Bantamzen]

And my experience (as a website developer) tells me it could be either. Some of the random bugs I have seen are beyond amazing. I have a massive amount of respect to our QA guys for finding some of the stuff they do!

As an application builder, I wholeheartedly second this. No matter how much validation and error trapping you code in, random stuff still gets through from time to time. Seriously I've seen stuff over the years that has had everyone just totally bemused. Ghost in the Machine, maybe....??

However with regard to the OP's issue, it is possible that the TrainLine's databases have an update date field so if they have amended the address following the posting of the tickets this would be visible. I would however had hoped that the site's code would error trap any missing line in the first instance, and even if that somehow got through the code generating the address for the mailing would also pick this up. So as WelshBluebird says, it could be one or the other, or even a combination of both. My advice would be to ask TrainLine to check exactly what they have stored and from when, and look into the possibility of a software fault if they are sure they entered the correct address at the point of ordering.

And has been said before, don't use third party companies. They never offer better prices than the train operators as they charge a commission, something that the train operators cannot. If someone is unsure who might be the best company to buy from, simply start a search for the journey on the National Rail site and this will direct you to the appropriate operator where your transaction will be processed.

 

[James H]

That's not always the case. Some tickets (even Advances) are the same price from any train operator website, so there may be no point in registering for an account with say Southeastern if you have an account with GWR already. First Group sites (GWR and TPE) seem to give Nectar points on any journeys - not just those with a First Group TOC.

However if you use the GWR or SWR site, you won't be offered Southeastern's own advance tickets, so you could potentially over-pay significantly.

It is a minefield.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's not always the case. Some tickets (even Advances) are the same price from any train operator website, so there may be no point in registering for an account with say Southeastern if you have an account with GWR already. First Group sites (GWR and TPE) seem to give Nectar points on any journeys - not just those with a First Group TOC.

Some are, but unless you're bothered with things like Nectar you can be sure[1] you will get the best deal if you use the TOC's site, which is why I always advise it to the layman. Trainline/RSH are *never* cheaper. They may be the same price (plus fees), but you cannot save money by choosing them.

[1] Megatrain aside, though that is only relevant to EMT now, and I wish it would go away.

 

[FQTV]

It's possible the OP changed the delivery address, though.

I just don't think the option of non-tracked postage should be offered. It would solve all these issues to remove it. Tickets are too valuable for regular mail - they are equivalent to cash and need to be treated as if they were.

OT: but perhaps the greater problem is ticketing still being stuck in the 19th Century with myriad restrictions on what kind of ticket can and can't be emailed. Presumably easyJet thought long and hard about whether to post boarding passes out to their customers when they set up and then grew like fury.

And before the Oyster component is mentioned, if I buy a TMB pass in advance for the Barcelona Metro, they email be a barcode which I 'show' to a ticket machine at the Metro station and it spits out a physical card.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And if I buy a UK railway ticket I get sent a code (OK, I have to type it in, but it's hardly a great inconvenience), take it to a ticket machine and it spits out a physical card. Provided said ticket machine is not owned by Merseyrail, who really need a massive clout (or even throwing out entirely) for not taking their responsibilities as a member of ATOC/RDG/RSP seriously. So that's pretty much the same as the Barcelona Metro unless you live in the Liverpool City Region.

I do agree print at home/genuine e-ticketing is needed more widely, but it'll come.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Never use Trainline anyway, because they charge fees that others don't, and they are not cheaper. Always buy from the TOC you are travelling with (for most of your journey if more than one) for the best deals.

But if you didn't for whatever reason enter the first address line or blanked it accidentally I don't see that it can be seen as their fault (other than that it's a bit rubbish if their system's validation doesn't block that).

TBH, I think vendors should stop offering 1st class post, it creates them (and you) these problems. They could use Royal Mail Tracked 24/48 instead. Certainly when I sell on eBay I never use any non-tracked method of postage even if I am asked to do so by a buyer.

Our T&C's clearly state that 1st class post is at the purchasers own risk (though FOC) we give them option of TOD/Signed for 1st Class/Special Delivery. Anything over £100 in value we insist its 1st class signed for over £200 Special Delivery. Its just not worth the hassle from both party's perspectives.

 

[AlterEgo]

Our T&C's clearly state that 1st class post is at the purchasers own risk (though FOC) we give them option of TOD/Signed for 1st Class/Special Delivery. Anything over £100 in value we insist its 1st class signed for over £200 Special Delivery. Its just not worth the hassle from both party's perspectives.

Your TnCs are likely not to have much legal backing. As a seller you’re legally responsible for ensuring delivery of the tickets and you can’t wash your hands of that responsibility. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/c...f-something-you-ordered-hasnt-been-delivered/

If you as a customer report that tickets have been lost in unregistered post to the seller, they must either refund you or replace them. In practice this is often done through ToD collection. The only reason the OP hasn’t been successful in getting Trainline to do that is because her address in the booking is wrong and Trainline are saying it’s her fault.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Our T&C's clearly state that 1st class post is at the purchasers own risk (though FOC) we give them option of TOD/Signed for 1st Class/Special Delivery. Anything over £100 in value we insist its 1st class signed for over £200 Special Delivery. Its just not worth the hassle from both party's perspectives.

I don't think you can actually legally disclaim that. That's why I will not, as I said, use untracked post for Ebay sales.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Problem of waiting for something to get returned to sender is that it can take months.

No idea what happens, but at work we send out reminder letters, sometimes they can take literally months to get returned to us if someone has scribbled out the address and put RTS on them. Had a nearly year old letter returned a few weeks back.

 

[Puffing Devil]

Our T&C's clearly state that 1st class post is at the purchasers own risk (though FOC) we give them option of TOD/Signed for 1st Class/Special Delivery. Anything over £100 in value we insist its 1st class signed for over £200 Special Delivery. Its just not worth the hassle from both party's perspectives.

Your TnCs are likely not to have much legal backing. As a seller you’re legally responsible for ensuring delivery of the tickets and you can’t wash your hands of that responsibility. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/c...f-something-you-ordered-hasnt-been-delivered/

If you as a customer report that tickets have been lost in unregistered post to the seller, they must either refund you or replace them. In practice this is often done through ToD collection. The only reason the OP hasn’t been successful in getting Trainline to do that is because her address in the booking is wrong and Trainline are saying it’s her fault.

I don't think you can actually legally disclaim that. That's why I will not, as I said, use untracked post for Ebay sales.

Agree - you're going to fall foul of the Consumer Rights Act. It would need a very specific waiver and disclaimer to be signed by the customer before you could even think about ducking out of your responsibilities - more than an simple warning or tick box.

 

[sheff1]

Our T&C's clearly state that 1st class post is at the purchasers own risk

"Our" ?

 

[Llanigraham]

Gareth runs an independent ticket office based at Newtown Station, Powys.

And I will agree with other posters, I think Gareth needs to check the legallity of his terms. Trading Standards at PCC have an advice system.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Thank you all for your comments. The amount of stuff I send that's not First Class Signed for or Special Delivery is very low most people want the certainty.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Thank you all for your comments. The amount of stuff I send that's not First Class Signed for or Special Delivery is very low most people want the certainty.

Do you ever use Royal Mail Tracked 24/48? Personally I like that service (tracked but no signature needed, a bit like Amazon deliveries) and wish it was available to the consumer. Such services can be enhanced by having the courier/postman photograph the door they posted the item through, for example (DX Secure already do that).

Waiting in for a signature is after all a nuisance, but tracking is a massive benefit in itself.

 

[poppyanne]

UPDATE * Nothing yet has been done apart from checking if the tickets have been RTS. But it has now been escalated to the technical team to check if it is mine or their fault the first line of address is missing and a refund IF they get the tickets back.

Problem of waiting for something to get returned to sender is that it can take months.

No idea what happens, but at work we send out reminder letters, sometimes they can take literally months to get returned to us if someone has scribbled out the address and put RTS on them. Had a nearly year old letter returned a few weeks back.

The only difference today was another member of the team!! WAS going to reissue them until I said the address was incomplete then it was not possible.
I Still don't understand, if the they will reissue them if I didn't get them then why can they then not change the missing part of the address and reissue them?? because whichever way, I still didn't receive them!!!!! Grrr. So bloomin' angry. Apparently, its because someone else could use the tickets.... Not sure how likely this is as they are lost somewhere in the postal system... And again, either way, addressed correctly or not, what difference does that make as to whether they will re issue them? because, again, either way someone else could use them.

Surely something should flag up when the first line of the address is missing (the very important part), be it mine or their error?
Their reason today to not resend now was that someone else could use the ticket and they couldn't refund until they had the tickets back.
Sorry, rant over
Anyway, as I paid by Paypal, i have opened a resolution case and hopefully I can just get my money back. Wish me luck.

 

[poppyanne]

It's possible the OP changed the delivery address, though.

I just don't think the option of non-tracked postage should be offered. It would solve all these issues to remove it. Tickets are too valuable for regular mail - they are equivalent to cash and need to be treated as if they were.

I didn't change the address as I didn't go into my new account until after I found out the tickets hadn't arrived and spoke to someone from train line. The only way they could have been changed is if whoever i spoke to had changed the address when I spoke to them! And, every time I speak to someone from trainline they only have the address with the first line missing. Today, when they were going to re issue them and I told them the problem with the address, they told me that they have no record of the missing first line details. Go figure??
I also agree that they shouldn't be allowed to be sent untracked.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This sounds odd. Did you paste your address in from elsewhere? Possibly there is a special character causing a bug.

 

[LOL The Irony]

This is why you should book through the operator. Whenever I've looked at the trainline, the same price of ticket was avalible through the operator.

 

[AlterEgo]

This is why you should book through the operator. Whenever I've looked at the trainline, the same price of ticket was avalible through the operator.

While the Trainline is literally never cheaper, in this circumstance it isn’t actually a reason you should book with the operator. Many operators have Trainline engines powering their booking sites anyway.