Train route more than twice as quick by road

[Zoe]

slow speed along from Newton abbot to Exeter.

Line speed from Newton Abbot to Exeter is not slow. Newton Abbot to Teignmouth is 90 mph and Exminster to Exeter is 100 mph. Most of the rest is at least 75 mph except two short 60 mph sections and a 70 mph section. Line speed is more of an issue between Newton Abbot and Plymouth. The section between Newton Abbot and Totnes is just 55 mph and west of Totnes there's also a long 60 mph section.

 

[The Planner]

Plenty of examples I suspect of where there are two stations in a town on two different lines, Bicester for example, probably Yeovil and Dorchester too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Settle and Carlisle is extremely slow thansk to the line being full of slow moving coal trains, which is why the RUS did not propose any speed improvements on the line.

Perhaps the elimination of coal electricity would improve things.... or just lead to the line being downgraded further.

Line speed increases are being looked at along there, not sure if it has fell at the first hurdle though.

 

[richw]

Line speed from Newton Abbot to Exeter is not slow. Newton Abbot to Exeter is 90 mph and Exminster to Exeter is 100 mph. Most of the rest is at least 75 mph except two short 60 mph sections. Line speed is more of an issue between Newton Abbot and Plymouth. The section between Newton Abbot and Totnes is just 55 mph and west of Totnes there's also a long 60 mph section.

Ok i'll clear up my point, the line is so indirect and longer in mileage that it takes considerably longer than driving. The train is at least 10 mins longer, depsite travelling at speeds of 90mph vs 70mph. And despite line speed being 90mph, i can assure you i've yet to see a train doing that speed along Dawlish/ Teignmouth part of the route

 

[LE Greys]

Plenty of examples I suspect of where there are two stations in a town on two different lines, Bicester for example, probably Yeovil and Dorchester too.

Hayes might be the worst for comparison.

 

[jonesy3001]

Lancaster-Preston 20mins by train,1hr and a half on the 40/41(Stagecoach)and about 30/45mins in a car on the A6/M6.

 

[Zoe]

Ok i'll clear up my point, the line is so indirect and longer in mileage that it takes considerably longer than driving. The train is at least 10 mins longer, depsite travelling at speeds of 90mph vs 70mph. And despite line speed being 90mph, i can assure you i've yet to see a train doing that speed along Dawlish/ Teignmouth part of the route

This is where the two 60 mph sections are, through Teignmouth and through the Dawlish tunnels. It's 75 mph between them. The fastest trains also take only 18 minutes between Newton Abbot and Exeter and I very much doubt you are going to be doing Newton Abbot to Exeter in just 8 minutes by road so the time differential is less than 10 minutes. With a time differential this small I doubt it has much effect over people's journey choices.

 

[richw]

This is where the two 60 mph sections are, through Teignmouth station and through the Dawlish tunnels. It's 75 mph between them. The fastest trains also take only 18 minutes between Newton Abbot and Exeter and I very much doubt you are going to be doing Newton Abbot to Exeter in just 8 minutes by road so the time differential is less than 10 minutes. With a time differential this small I doubt it has much effect over people's journey choices.

So your post i quote previously said it was 90mph between newton abbot and exeter, now there are 2 60mph and a 75 mph section......

Just typed newton abbot to exeter into a journey planner, the first 3 services shown are 38 mins, 34 mins and 35 mins. It is easily driveable in 20-25 mins (17miles, majority dual carriageway).

 

[Zoe]

So your post i quote previously said it was 90mph between newton abbot and exeter, now there are 2 60mph and a 75 mph section......

Sorry, this was a typing error. The 90 mph section in question is between Newton Abbot at Teignmouth. The original post has now been edited.

Just typed newton abbot to exeter into a journey planner, the first 3 services shown are 38 mins, 34 mins and 35 mins. It is easily driveable in 20-25 mins (17miles, majority dual carriageway).

These are stopping services and you'd expect these to take considerably longer. These are also the only services that are running at this time of the evening which considering it's getting near to the end of service it is not surprising as the last intercity trains will have departed around 8 PM. Through most of the day there are non-stop services from Newton Abbot to Exeter and some of these take just 18 minutes.

 

[tony_mac]

A journey I make - Darlington to Liverpool - 3:10 by train - and about 2:05 by road.

It's only 50% more time, but this is for a direct service on an 'Express' train, including some of the fastest track in the country.

And recently I went for a weekend, and it cost less to go by car - including car hire - than the cost of an off-peak return.
(It was a 'bluemotion' Golf, BTW!).

 

[Zoe]

And recently I went for a weekend, and it cost less to go by car - including car hire - than the cost of an off-peak return.
(It was a 'bluemotion' Golf, BTW!).

But if you had booked in advance it may well have been much cheaper to go by rail.

 

[richw]

But not if he wants the flexibility to return any off peak time and not be restricted to a specific time, and stricter terms and conditions

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk

 

[tony_mac]

Well, you can do it for about half the price - if you book more than 2 months in advance.
Advance tickets here also generally mean a longer journey time, as you have to take Transpennine connections.

 

[Statto]

Soon as i saw this thread i thought of the Far North Line, Inverness to Thurso, where the Road & Rail is parallel for most of the route. The train from Inverness to Thurso takes 3:45hrs. AA planner says it can be done in 2:30 hrs. The bus journey is only just quicker taking about 3:05hrs.

 

[wintonian]

As a non driver/rail enthusiast I'd rather travel by train than any other form of transport but there are a few journeys where the bus wins hands down in terms of both time and cost.

Carmarthen to Aberystwyth takes under two hours each way by bus and costs £6 with a West Wales rover ticket. By rail it takes well over six hours and costs £58.50 return.

Is there a journey by public transport with an even bigger difference ?

Winchester - Petersfield, Google says 45 min by car, 1 hr 08min by bus, quickest regular service by rail is 1 hr 28 min (there is 1 trip in the evening at 1 hr 07 min)

£17.60 CDR, don't know what the return is but a Stagecoach dayrider is £8.20.

Comparing almost like for like a 7 day season is 87.90 and a 7 day daydrider is £20.50.

Needles to say very few pepole use the train for this trip.

 

[Jay]

Are we allowed to say Scarborough to Whitby?

About an hour on a bus, 40 mins by car and today by rail 4 hours on average.

Before they ripped the line up during the 60's I'm sure the journey was still over 1.5 hours.

 

[cuccir]

Barrow-in-Furness to Durham or Newcastle is a journey I do a few times a year and the journey times are very poor in all directions, so I imagination its even worse up the Cumbria Coast. The best I've ever done is spot on 4 hours when I made an untimetabled connection at Lancaster of -1 minute: my train arrived a little early and the Barrow train was on the other side of the island platform!

Although it maybe belongs in the fantasy thread, I'd love to see three or four Cumbria Coast Line/Furness Line trains extended onto Leeds via Hellifield, it would really improve connections from South and West Cumbria to the North-East and Yorkshire by cutting out the connections: Barrow to Leeds could be done in 2h30-2h45. I really think that this would be good recompense to the area if it loses the majority of its Manchester trains when the Lancashire electrification is completed.

 

[142094]

There are a few trains from Barrow-in-Furness that get as far as Preston, and there is one service which goes from Buxton to Barrow in the afternoon (which I've been told is the longest service run by Northern for journey time).

Agree with the above - earlier in the year I did a trip from Newcastle to Lancaster via the Cumbrian Coast, used the Morecambe - Leeds service as far as Hellifield, across the S+C to Carlisle and back to Newcastle. VEry long day due to the linespeeds and poor connections.

 

[Chris M]

Plenty of examples I suspect of where there are two stations in a town on two different lines, Bicester for example, probably Yeovil and Dorchester too.

Hayes might be the worst for comparison.

Dorchester by rail isn't that extreme (change at Upwey), although obviously it's quicker by road.

Windsor is probably up there for the greatest discrepancy.

The rail journey between Woolwich and North Woolwich was, before the DLR a very much longer journey than the quickest, although that was by ferry rather than road.

 

[fairysdad]

Dorchester by rail isn't that extreme (change at Upwey), although obviously it's quicker by road.

I think it's quicker on foot than by road as well...

 

[swcovas]

someone mentioned Carmarthen to Aberystwyth and there are a few other examples in Wales of journeys which were once easy by rail but are now very complicated. ....

Caerphilly - Pontypridd

Merthyr - Rhymney - Ebbw Vale (Heads of the Vallies line closed in 1958)

Coryton - Pontypridd (an extension of the line from Coryton existed until 1931.... I think)

Pwllheli - Bangor (via Afon Wen until 1964). Haven't bothered to work it out but shudder to think how long it would take today!!

These off the top of my head but sure there would be others.

 

[reb0118]

I'm sure someone can work out the differential for Dunbar & North Berwick?

 

[142094]

I'm sure someone can work out the differential for Dunbar & North Berwick?

Would have been even worse before Scotrail started serving Dunbar. Long double back via Waverley.

 

[Stephen55a1960]

There's an hourly X84 bus from Ilkley to Skipton

Not sure it runs on Sundays though? I could be wrong?

 

[apk55]

Suburb to Suburb Journeys can be particularly slow because it is often a 3 part journey. A journey I did a lot when I was working away from home illustrates this well, Altrincham to Hall Green (Birmingham). Even though the ends were not too far from stations there still had to be allowed another 10 minuets time at each end and the best that could be achieved was a little over 4 hours. In contrast by car on a typical day it could it could be done in about 2hours 15min (Best about 1h 50min) and the worst was 4h 30 min when the M6 was closed. And this was done in a £6000 60MPG Citroen C1 with a quoted running cost of around 30p/mile.

 

[D1009]

Pwllheli - Bangor (via Afon Wen until 1964). Haven't bothered to work it out but shudder to think how long it would take today!!

Quickest way is probably via Llandudno Jn, Blaenau Ffestiniog and Porthmadog.

 

[TDK]

Wrexham to Birmingham, car wins hands down when you take into account driving to the station, parking up etc. Train takes door to door near on 2 hours, car takes 1 hr 40 with traffic.

 

[Tav77]

Waltham Cross to Potters Bar: Car 9 miles - 15 minutes; Train 50 mins, 2 changes

Cuffley to Potters Bar: Car 4.6 miles - 13 minutes; Train 53 minutes, 1 change

 

[Deerfold]

Not sure it runs on Sundays though? I could be wrong?

Not any more, no. Nor evenings. Well it does run, but the section between Skipton and Ilkley doesn't.


http://www.wymetro.com/NR/rdonlyres/CF8A25F0-7F05-47CA-817F-623113984FA5/0/X084bustimetable.pdf

However there is a bus on a Sunday (883/884 every 90 mins in http://www.wymetro.com/NR/rdonlyres...3F9A5B/0/DalesBus_Summer2012_BusTimetable.pdf)

(for bus to Steeton & Silsden: http://www.wymetro.com/NR/rdonlyres/7C23492D-C4C4-4CDE-AEE6-468292D81CB2/0/712bustimetable.pdf may change from 29 April).

 

[Greenback]

someone mentioned Carmarthen to Aberystwyth and there are a few other examples in Wales of journeys which were once easy by rail but are now very complicated. ....

Caerphilly - Pontypridd

Merthyr - Rhymney - Ebbw Vale (Heads of the Vallies line closed in 1958)

Coryton - Pontypridd (an extension of the line from Coryton existed until 1931.... I think)

Pwllheli - Bangor (via Afon Wen until 1964). Haven't bothered to work it out but shudder to think how long it would take today!!

These off the top of my head but sure there would be others.

Llandrindod to Newtown springs immediately to mind, since I was there a couple of weeks ago! There are plenty, though, as you say.

The line to Coryton did once extend through to Radyr. IIRC passenger services beyond Coryton did not survive after 1931, though the line remained for freight, mostly Valleys coal, until 1952. I could be wrong though, it's a long time since I read up about the line's history.

One of the bigest ironies is that trains now run from Coryton to Radyr, taking about 40 minutes, whereas the direct route would have been a lot quicker! Not that the trains exist to serve a huge Coryton - Radyr market, of course!

Suburb to Suburb Journeys can be particularly slow because it is often a 3 part journey. A journey I did a lot when I was working away from home illustrates this well, Altrincham to Hall Green (Birmingham). Even though the ends were not too far from stations there still had to be allowed another 10 minuets time at each end and the best that could be achieved was a little over 4 hours. In contrast by car on a typical day it could it could be done in about 2hours 15min (Best about 1h 50min) and the worst was 4h 30 min when the M6 was closed. And this was done in a £6000 60MPG Citroen C1 with a quoted running cost of around 30p/mile.

Indeed, and this is why public transport will always lack the flexibility of a car. With the latter it doesn't matter where you are starting out from or ending up at, you are not constrained by a fixed route or a timetable.

It's no wonder why cars remain as popular as ever!