Train seats

[HowardGWR]

159s are fine if you're a midget. If you're proper sized like me - 6' 3", fourteen stone - it's impossible to sit properly because the seats are too close together........
When it comes to trains seats size really does matter.

That's very true but like the pole in the table mentioned earlier, is not related to the design of seat but how close together they are.

My post was about the design of seat. When the 159's are not rammed, the ambience in second class is quite pleasant, as a tall person could chose a seat with no one opposite them. This is always possible after Basingstoke, coming from London.

I presume that all these points apply equally to the SWt 158s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Try the GWR HST first class 'armchairs' - a greater contrast with Southern's ludicrous 'first' class is hard to imagine!

True but I think the thread was primarily aimed at the seats used by second class, being the majority of seats used by pax. I actually sat in Southern first class, before I realised I was in the wrong compartment. A right con, that one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

True but I think the thread was primarily aimed at the seats used by second class, being the majority of seats used by pax. I actually sat in Southern first class, before I realised I was in the wrong compartment. A right con, that one.

Sort of. London commuter first class is about an increased chance of a seat; the actual seat comfort is largely irrelevant.

 

[Russonomics]

Here's me list based on my rather limited rail adventures . As a person with less meat on my bones than a Tesco value sausage, the sponginess of the seat is what's most important to me.

Good:
ATW 158's, refreshed 150's, 175 (to an extent. On some units it's still lovely, on the rougher ones which desperately need loving, a lot of the cushioning has pretty much gone.)
GWR HST's
Scotrail 334's
Southeastern 395/465/466

Bad:
Any Pacer seating.
ATW unrefreshed 150's
ATW 153's
CC Voyagers

The ugly:
Electrostar patent pending ironing board seating™

 

[Clansman]

My list:

Good
Mk3/Mk4 First Class (All TOCs) [pic]
Class 220/221/390 First Class (Non-Leather Only) [pic]
Class 185/350/444/450 First Class (Excluding London Midland units) [pic]
Class 180 First Class (All TOCs) [pic]
Class 365/465/466 Both Refurbished Standard and First Class [pic1] [pic2]
Class 379 Both Standard and First Class [pic1] [pic2]
Class 334 (Excluding the middle coach) [pic]

Bearable
Class 170 Scotrail Standard Class (Refurbished Units Only) [pic]
Class 185/350/380 etc Standard Class (Units which use these seats) [pic]
Class 158 Scotrail Standard Class (Refurbished Only including 2008) [pic]
Class 221/390 Virgin Standard Class [pic]
Class 175/180 Standard Class (All TOCs) [pic]
Class 156 Scotrail and Northern [pic] [URL="https://www.northernrail.org/images/news/bettertrains-train-interior3.jpg"][pic2]
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Awful
Class 150 (All TOCs) [pic]
Class 158 Scotrail Standard Class (Unrefurbished ones since 1997) [pic]
Class 313/314/315/507/508 (All TOCs including Southern and Merseyrail) [pic]
Class 376 [pic]
Class 142/143/144 (All TOCs) [pic]
Class 165 Chiltern (Both seat types) [pic1] [pic2]
Any train with the Ironing Board Seats [pic]

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Traveled from Preston to Barrow last Thursday. Haven't been on a Mk 2 for many years.
Very comfortable train, nice view - table seats lining up with windows, leg room, no rattly engine noise underneath. Complete contrast with return trip = very noisy, cramped seating. Have we advanced? lol! Had a great day out, the train ride made my day!

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[Hadders]

365s can be added to the good list

 

[Clansman]

Traveled from Preston to Barrow last Thursday. Haven't been on a Mk 2 for many years.
Very comfortable train, nice view - table seats lining up with windows, leg room, no rattly engine noise underneath. Complete contrast with return trip = very noisy, cramped seating. Have we advanced? lol! Had a great day out, the train ride made my day!

Can't beat loco hauled stock, which actually have legroom. When did DRS put bars on their Mk2s? Is it regulation or just their own take of passenger safety?

 

[TH172341]

Chiltern's MK 3 seating is excellent
Class 168s/170s have always been good for me
XC HST seating
Class 365s
Northern's (the Ex Spirit ones e.g 448) Class 156 and 158 Richmond Seating is good as well

And actually, I don't mind the Class 220/221/390 seating - use XC's Voyagers a fair bit and never had an issue really. No issues with the seating the 350s or 185s have either.

Class 172s and Chiltern 165s are good for short/medium journeys.

On the poorer end of the scale, the Pacers of course, and the 150 seats tend to be too low to the floor I find, although the seating fitted to the ex LM are comfy. Not a big fan of the GWR 165 seating either, nor Grand Central's tired out 180 seating, which are long overdue repadding!

Really, provided there is good back support and decent padding, I'm fairly happy with the offering. The Fainsa seating is something I am yet to experience, but can't be too dissimilar to the 172s/CH 165s - however really, moquette should be used instead of the useless cloth. Will be interesting to try out the IEPs in the future!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Can't beat loco hauled stock, which actually have legroom. When did DRS put bars on their Mk2s? Is it regulation or just their own take of passenger safety?

It's required for running manual door stock on the Cumbrian Coast due to limited clearances. The other option is a steward at every door to ban leaning out.

The Mk1 DMUs used on the line years ago also had bars for that reason. It isn't new.


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[southern442]

The Fainsa seating is something I am yet to experience, but can't be too dissimilar to the 172s/CH 165s - however really, moquette should be used instead of the useless cloth. Will be interesting to try out the IEPs in the future!

It's worse. At least the 165/172 (and others that use this seat) seats are padded!

 

[TH172341]

It's worse. At least the 165/172 (and others that use this seat) seats are padded!

Oh dear...think I'll retract my original assumption in that case if there's virtually no padding. Should be able to get on a 387 at some point soon so will soon find out for myself.

 

[Ayman Ilham]

Here's my list based on trains I been on in which I remember how the seats felt:

Good:
Class 175 - comfortable design and spacious
Class 158 (Northern) - most comfortable seats
Class 158 (ATW/EMT) - headrests are brilliant
Class 67Mk3 (ATW) - similar to the 158
Class 170 (XC) - looks luxurious, though a bit hard
Class 317/5 - soft and springy
Class 221 - feels really nice
Class 390 - similar to Voyager

Okay:
Class 153/156 - suitable for medium journeys
Class 317/6 - similar to Sprinters but no armrests
Class 321 - seats narrow and not high enough to rest head
Class 357 - similar to 317/6 but no tables

Bad:
Class 142 (NR) - bus benches on a train??
Class 315 - not a fan of low-back seats
Class 378 - rock hard and longitudinal

 

[156443]

Just got on Northern 142064 at Newcastle Upon Tyne and has bench seats, thought all the north east ones had high back seats.


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[sprinterguy]

Just got on Northern 142064 at Newcastle Upon Tyne and has bench seats, thought all the north east ones had high back seats.

Most do, but a small number of former North West units were transferred to Heaton by Northern, at least some following their return from loan to First Great Western, and retain bench seats.

 

[northwichcat]

Most do, but a small number of former North West units were transferred to Heaton by Northern, at least some following their return from loan to First Great Western, and retain bench seats.

Yes. Heaton received 5 additional units so the total number of 142s there is now 5 more than ATN had so a minimum of 5 units there at any time won't have the ex-ATN seating. The one in the picture clearly is an ex-FGW unit due to the pink handles on the doors.

 

[Class 261]

Here's my list based on a limited number of trains travelled on:

Good
Class 170
Class 221
Class 334
Class 390

Bearable
Class 158
Class 175
Class 314 (refurbished only)
Class 380

Awful
Class 156

 

[doa46231]

Interesting item about train seats by Ian Walmsley in the latest 'Modern Railways'

Seems 'Northern' are doing customer evaluation of seating for future trains. About time!

Also a design for a possible British double decker is shown with four a side seating on lower deck and three a side on upper.

In my experience, the most comfortable train seating is found on American Amtrak trains, particularly the double decker Amtrak California units.
They beat anything Europe has to offer.
The Americans are large people, and their trains have seats to match!

 

[Prestige15]

Good:
MK4 Standard/First
Pendolino Standard/First
Class 377/1
Class 458/460
Any Southern slamdoors
SWT Class 159
Class 175/180
Class 170/1 170/2


Would rather walk:
Any train that has Chapman seats
Class 387/700, Not sure what make they are but a pile of hospital needles would be more comfortable.

 

[SEClass375]

Good-
Class 375/3 / 377/3 (they are basically the same*)
Class 375/6/7/8
Class 377/5
Class 465/9 First Class

Bearable-
Class 375/9 Standard

Awful-
Class 465/466 Standard
Class 376
Ironing Board seats

* Southern 375/3 got renumbered to 377/3

 

[buses7675]

It's required for running manual door stock on the Cumbrian Coast due to limited clearances. The other option is a steward at every door to ban leaning out.

The Mk1 DMUs used on the line years ago also had bars for that reason. It isn't new.


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Is it easy to open the doors when getting off using the outside handle?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is it easy to open the doors when getting off using the outside handle?

Not as easy as without, but not impossible.

 

[61248]

Interesting item about train seats by Ian Walmsley in the latest 'Modern Railways'

Seems 'Northern' are doing customer evaluation of seating for future trains. About time!

In the April 2017 issue Mr Walmsley tells us that Northern are going for the cheap and nasty option anyway
Still I don't suppose passenger comfort can be found on a spreadsheet

I contacted Northern about this and after about a month got a reply that told me nothing,a politician would have been proud of it

I'll try again and see if I can get a sensible reply

 

[F Great Eastern]

I contacted Northern about this and after about a month got a reply that told me nothing,a politician would have been proud of it

I'll try again and see if I can get a sensible reply

We have been having the same problem with Abellio when it comes to the thin and light high density seat that is being used on the new FLIRTS

They have spent the last 6 months avoiding the question on seat pitch, making many promises about providing info, but never giving a figure and just writing politicians answers.

To date despite many emails and broken promises from their end, they have not gave us a figure and a stock answer on how comfort will be upgraded without confirming or denying that the seat pitch is being reduced and not saying what it is.

I lost count on the number of times they suggest that they will get that information "tomorrow" or "next week" however unfortunately it seems time doesn't pass in Abellio land because that excuse has been used for months now.

 

[physics34]

We have been having the same problem with Abellio when it comes to the thin and light high density seat that is being used on the new FLIRTS

They have spent the last 6 months avoiding the question on seat pitch, making many promises about providing info, but never giving a figure and just writing politicians answers.

To date despite many emails and broken promises from their end, they have not gave us a figure and a stock answer on how comfort will be upgraded without confirming or denying that the seat pitch is being reduced and not saying what it is.

I lost count on the number of times they suggest that they will get that information "tomorrow" or "next week" however unfortunately it seems time doesn't pass in Abellio land because that excuse has been used for months now.

the issue with train seats really had to be argued by passenger groups etc.... otherwise they will not listen

 

[samuelmorris]

We did but so far to no avail, I haven't heard anything either - I'll see if I can follow it up this week.