Train window shot out by BB gun in Finsbury Park

[theageofthetra]

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, does anyone have any more info on this sickening incident?

http://www.london24.com/news/crime/man_injured_as_airgun_shots_fired_at_trains_smash_carriage_window_near_finsbury_park_station_1_2170506

 

[transportphoto]

http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...e_window_near_finsbury_park_station_1_2170506

Man injured as ‘airgun shots fired at trains’ smash carriage window near Finsbury Park station

Rush-hour train services were disrupted today after someone reportedly started firing shots at trains in the Finsbury Park area – one of them injuring a passenger after it shattered a train carriage window.

British Transport Police confirmed an “object” struck the 3.52pm Moorgate to Stevenage service, injuring a passenger in the ear.

A spokesman for train operator First Capital Connect said four trains in total had been “affected”, and reports on Twitter suggest at least one has been taken out of service after arriving at Finsbury Park station with a window shattered.

Luke Morris tweeted: “Unbelievable scenes... Madness at Finsbury Park because of some f’ing idiots shooting at trains. Love to get hold of them #cowards.”

While no official channels confirmed the cause of the incident, train drivers announced to passengers that someone with an air rifle was targeting the trains.

This afternoon @finsbury_pk tweeted: “I’m on a train outside FP, stopped at red light – driver announced backlog due to someone taking potshots at a train with air rifle earlier!”

Officers from British Transport Police (BTP) attended the line at 4.14pm. A BTP spokesperson said: “An investigation is under way to establish the full circumstances and officers are appealing for anyone with information to contact British Transport Police on Freefone 0800 405040, or the independent charity Crimestoppers on 0800 555111.” Quote incident 426 of 26/04/13 in any calls.

 

[Rhydgaled]

BB gun? Sounds more like something more powerful to me, unless my understanding of what a BB gun is (also known as 'airsoft' guns I think) does not match your definition.

Still, you shouldn't be shooting even an airsoft/BBgun in public.

 

[Nym]

Even a .177 Steel Pellet on a BB Gun isn't likely to go through glass, a .22 Air Rifle round has a chance, but it's not a good one.

Could have been a .22LR round from a civvy legal rifle, that would have shattered the glass, possibly with a small amount of penitration.

There just isn't enough mass to penitrate on a BB gun, slingshots have a much better chance.

 

[GB]

It is reported that the projectile shattered the window rather than penetrating it. A .22 air rifle is more than cable of this especially if its a high powered rifle at the legal limit (without license) of 12 ft/lbs!

 

[A-driver]

A pellet gun was fired at about 6 trains yesterday somewhere between Drayton park/holloway and finsbury park. A couple of trains were noticed straight away and then out if service but as trains ran into depots or turned around at stations cleaners etc started finding other shattered windows which hadn't been noticed before. Mainly 313s damaged but also one 317 which was running empty cars to kings cross.

The 'injured' man had some glass fall on him but was not injured. No one else was hurt as far as anyone knows.

Sadly I doubt the police will have much luck finding anyone.

 

[badassunicorn]

Right I'm going on strike until I get my danger money!

 

[sw1ller]

Right I'm going on strike until I get my danger money!

Just a quick point, I had a work colleague in my old job who had 3 air rifles. 2x .22 and a 177. all 3 guns were over the legal 12lb limit. 18lbs was the "soft" one. These things were supersonic and were very easy to dial down back to 12lbs if inspected. Depending on the shape of the pellet and distance, a gun like this would have absolutely no problem getting through glass on a train.

On a quick note, I personally think no-one should own a gun, EVER. Not even a childs replica water gun. This incident is disgusting!

 

[michael769]

Toughened glass as used on the side windows of tains can be easily shattered by a BB gun or air rifle.

Laminated glass as used on the windscreen is an entirely different matter.

 

[bnm]

Toughened glass as used on the side windows of tains can be easily shattered by a BB gun or air rifle.

Laminated glass as used on the windscreen is an entirely different matter.

Some fleets now have laminated glass in the passenger saloons as well. Certainly true of FGW's HST fleet where the toughened glass was replaced by laminated glass following safety recommendations after the Ufton Nervet accident.

A similar incident with brainless idiots targeting trains occurred along the sea wall at Dawlish last weekend:

From the Herald Express (South Devon):

A train travelling through South Devon had to be evacuated after a stone was thrown at one of its carriage windows. The missile shattered the window glass as the train was travelling through Dawlish on Saturday.
​

The smashed train window after a stone was thrown at a carriage in Dawlish Warren

The train came to a stop and was evacuated at Exeter causing delays to passengers.*British Transport Police is appealing for information.

Sgt Dave Mannion, of BTP Exeter, said: "The stone penetrated both the inner and outer skins of a pane of glass in one of the carriages on the 3.04pm Plymouth to London Paddington service. Thankfully, no-one was injured. It is thought the stone was thrown at the train from the beach. Officers attended the rail line at Dawlish Warren and searched the area for any potential offenders but to no avail. This was an extremely foolish and dangerous act and it was lucky no-one was injured, although the consequences of this act could easily have been much more serious."

The laminated glass here has done its job. A toughened glass window may well have shattered and caused injury to those in the carriage at the time.

 

[michael769]

Stone? You'd need something the size of a brick to make a dent that size in a laminated pane.

I does show the difference that laminated glass makes, chances are the "stone" did not penetrate the cabin. If that had been toughened glass there would have been nothing left in the frame and a good chance of a passenger getting the "stone" in the face.

 

[John @ home]

The Mk IV carriage in which I'm currently travelling London - Leeds has laminated glass in 12 of the 14 windows of this carriage, and toughened glass in the other two. These two windows are marked "EMERGENCY WINDOW".

 

[ainsworth74]

Some fleets now have laminated glass in the passenger saloons as well. Certainly true of FGW's HST fleet where the toughened glass was replaced by laminated glass following safety recommendations after the Ufton Nervet accident.

I have a feeling that it'll be approaching most at this point. I believe laminated glass is now considered to be the standard glass to be fitted in trains and I have a feeling that a program of replacing toughened glass with laminated has been undertaken on many fleets that previously had all toughened windows. You'll notice that emergency hammers are increasingly rare on trains (EC Mk4s excluded!).

 

[edwin_m]

Indeed so. I don't recall the details at present (probably on the RSSB site somewhere) but emergency services said they would have no problem breaking into laminated windows to get people out. Hence future new build and refurbishment will most likely fit laminated glass into all windows.

The break-glass hammers are a mixed blessing - more often than not it is safer to stay on the train in the event of an accident even if it is a fire, as illustrated at Maidenhead some years back when the only casualty bailed out and was hit by a train on the adjacent track. In the event of an overturning incident it is also better if the windows stay structurally intact to prevent the passengers falling out.

 

[CC 72100]

I have a feeling that it'll be approaching most at this point. I believe laminated glass is now considered to be the standard glass to be fitted in trains and I have a feeling that a program of replacing toughened glass with laminated has been undertaken on many fleets that previously had all toughened windows. You'll notice that emergency hammers are increasingly rare on trains (EC Mk4s excluded!).

Indeed. Here's a previous thread on that matter that may be of some interest http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=66874

 

[bronzeonion]

I was once on one of the few remaining A60/62 trains out on the Metropolitan line last year around June and coming into Chesham there was a very loud bang and the window I was sat at had shattered. This also happened in the second carriage. The driver of the train told all passengers who were going London bound to stay in the first carriage and we all got detrained at Chalfont & Latimer. Luckily a Chiltern was 5mins behind. Stone throwing seems to happen worryingly frequently!

 

[jon0844]

Wasn't the old Tube documentary showing District line trains being regular targets in East London towards Barking?

 

[theageofthetra]

It has been the case in cars for some time that the laminated glass is a stressed member and forms part of the monocoque. Not sure on trains or PSV's?

 

[bronzeonion]

Wasn't the old Tube documentary showing District line trains being regular targets in East London towards Barking?

Yeah and they installed extra high fencing with very dense grid pattern if you know what I mean!

 

[Mr Sam]

ive heard a story up Liverpool way of a bb type air gun sooting at an RRV went through the front window and out the rear!!

my 12ft/lb air rifle bounces off laminated even with hardened pellets