Trainee driver

[JoanneAnderson]

Hi all, i have applied twice for trainee train driver, depot and main line,... could some one please tell me how the points system works on the application form, i recently had a train driver of many years help me fill out the form and i still didn't qualify with enough points to get to next stage.!! on the first attempt i answered honestly and on the 2nd attempt i answered with complete health and safety in mind, if i knew how they scored it i could change/revise, what ever it takes i dearly want to be a train driver, any help please,.... xx

 

[Silv1983]

Answering 'honestly' is noble, but it's not enough. Similarly - being conscious of 'Health and safety' is important - but it's not enough on it's own. Also in a way, consulting a "train driver of many years" might go against you. They'll be from a bygone era when things were different. A lot of the old hands where I work have laughed and admitted they'd never get a sniff these days at the job because it's changed so much. Whilst I don't doubt your friend or associate has earnt his job as driver: he might not necessarily have the wisdom to interpret a modern day application form: they're very clinical.

I don't think there's a sure-fire way to get enough "points" to gaurantee a pass at application stage - regardless of how many times you re-word it. I suspect comes down to what skills you have gained through experience in life - and how these prove you can become a good driver. Most industries use these - and sometimes they're referred to as 'core competencies'. They include things like 'composure in an emergency', concentrating for long periods of time, following a lot of strict rules and procedures in the workplace, teamworking, problem solving etc to name but a few. Then there are other factors which can determine how someone sat in a HR office reading your application feels about putting it in which of the two piles: your spelling and grammar, previous occupation (safety critical?), age (too young and inexperienced, or nearing retirement age), distance from depot, and general how you put yourself accross as a person.

It is a tough nut to crack - and you might not be falling short anywhere: it could be the calibre of a few of the other hundreds maybe thousands of applicants pip you to the post. All you can do is keep trying, and perhaps if it means that much: undertake something in life that'll give you the opportunity to exhibit these sought after experiences and skills. Some will suggest 'getting a foot in the door' on the railways via another role.

I see you live in Redbridge. Have you considered a job on the London Underground? They regularly recruit hundreds of platform staff, and after a short time in that role you can apply for train operator jobs. From there you could apply to the mainline in another couple of years. Just a thought.

Best of Luck

 

[notadriver]

Answering 'honestly' is noble, but it's not enough. Similarly - being conscious of 'Health and safety' is important - but it's not enough on it's own. Also in a way, consulting a "train driver of many years" might go against you. They'll be from a bygone era when things were different. A lot of the old hands where I work have laughed and admitted they'd never get a sniff these days at the job because it's changed so much. Whilst I don't doubt your friend or associate has earnt his job as driver: he might not necessarily have the wisdom to interpret a modern day application form: they're very clinical.

I don't think there's a sure-fire way to get enough "points" to gaurantee a pass at application stage - regardless of how many times you re-word it. I suspect comes down to what skills you have gained through experience in life - and how these prove you can become a good driver. Most industries use these - and sometimes they're referred to as 'core competencies'. They include things like 'composure in an emergency', concentrating for long periods of time, following a lot of strict rules and procedures in the workplace, teamworking, problem solving etc to name but a few. Then there are other factors which can determine how someone sat in a HR office reading your application feels about putting it in which of the two piles: your spelling and grammar, previous occupation (safety critical?), age (too young and inexperienced, or nearing retirement age), distance from depot, and general how you put yourself accross as a person.

It is a tough nut to crack - and you might not be falling short anywhere: it could be the calibre of a few of the other hundreds maybe thousands of applicants pip you to the post. All you can do is keep trying, and perhaps if it means that much: undertake something in life that'll give you the opportunity to exhibit these sought after experiences and skills. Some will suggest 'getting a foot in the door' on the railways via another role.

I see you live in Redbridge. Have you considered a job on the London Underground? They regularly recruit hundreds of platform staff, and after a short time in that role you can apply for train operator jobs. From there you could apply to the mainline in another couple of years. Just a thought.

Best of Luck

I wouldn't go on the tube if the intention is to go main line.

 

[Met Driver]

I wouldn't go on the tube if the intention is to go main line.

There's plenty of relevant experience (in terms of what is required to pass the application stage, and structured interview) to be gained by working on the Underground, particularly as a driver. The drawback to becoming a tube driver and then going mainline is the massive pay cut you'd take during training.

 

[Silv1983]

I wouldn't go on the tube if the intention is to go main line.

Oh...

 

[notadriver]

There's plenty of relevant experience (in terms of what is required to pass the application stage, and structured interview) to be gained by working on the Underground, particularly as a driver. The drawback to becoming a tube driver and then going mainline is the massive pay cut you'd take during training.

I agree there are advantages to being a tube driver but you are competing for a place on a trainee main line drivers course. You're up against people off the street, internal staff, platform staff, conductors and depot drivers. Personally I go for a job in the TOC you want to work for such as a conductor and work your way up from there. I don't recommend the depot driver route as any mistakes you make in that job could cost you if you want to go eventually want to go main line

The point about the pay cut is a good point. At least doing a lesser paid job the training rate wouldn't be so bad.

One of my friends is a tube driver and he reckons once the system goes fully ATO there will be massive changes to come.

 

[Dave1987]

I agree there are advantages to being a tube driver but you are competing for a place on a trainee main line drivers course. You're up against people off the street, internal staff, platform staff, conductors and depot drivers. Personally I go for a job in the TOC you want to work for such as a conductor and work your way up from there. I don't recommend the depot driver route as any mistakes you make in that job could cost you if you want to go eventually want to go main line

The point about the pay cut is a good point. At least doing a lesser paid job the training rate wouldn't be so bad.

One of my friends is a tube driver and he reckons once the system goes fully ATO there will be massive changes to come.

Sorry buddy but you seem to take any opportunity possible to bash the depot driver grade and make out being a conductor is wonderful and a virtual guaranteed way of getting to be a mainline driver, which it isn't! If you are a conductor you still have to pass the physcometric tests, depot drivers have already passed it. Just because you were a conductor and then went mainline driving doesn't make that the best way to get there. It is just your opinion.

 

[bb21]

Sorry buddy but you seem to take any opportunity possible to bash the depot driver grade and make out being a conductor is wonderful and a virtual guaranteed way of getting to be a mainline driver, which it isn't! If you are a conductor you still have to pass the physcometric tests, depot drivers have already passed it. Just because you were a conductor and then went mainline driving doesn't make that the best way to get there. It is just your opinion.

I don't think that is what he was saying though. All he is saying that mistakes made when you are a depot driver could have an impact on the prospect of becoming a mainline driver, not that depot drivers are any less of a grade than other jobs. This is probably true for some of the mistakes made even if one is a guard, if safety-critical for example.

 

[Geargrinder]

I think if you were a depot driver or tube driver you would have a huge advantage, compared to a conductor or person off the street. If you're already worrying about making some safety critical mistake that ruins your record then i would reconsider this as a career choice.

 

[Vicpaul]

What is your time scale?

Going from the underground to the mainline, I'd say stick to your goals. It'll take you a long time to get a train operator position internally and in all honesty I wouldn't say it helped me in my quest.

 

[E&W Lucas]

Hi all, i have applied twice for trainee train driver, depot and main line,... could some one please tell me how the points system works on the application form, i recently had a train driver of many years help me fill out the form and i still didn't qualify with enough points to get to next stage.!! on the first attempt i answered honestly and on the 2nd attempt i answered with complete health and safety in mind, if i knew how they scored it i could change/revise, what ever it takes i dearly want to be a train driver, any help please,.... xx

The selection process is competency based. They are loking for evidence of certain skills and personality traits. Plenty of information already provided on this site, if you search.

 

[TSJD]

Being in redbridge you could take the depot driver route with Greater Anglia being based at Ilford or Gidea park. You still have to do all the tests and interviews but once your in then you automatically go on to mainline training once a space comes up. You will learn loads and get plenty of experience with rolling stick, shunting, coupling/ uncoupling etc. it's the route I took and I'm now a driver. Found the driver training quite easy due to my years as a depot driver. It may not be your first choice but it is something to consider

 

[E&W Lucas]

Sorry buddy but you seem to take any opportunity possible to bash the depot driver grade and make out being a conductor is wonderful and a virtual guaranteed way of getting to be a mainline driver, which it isn't! If you are a conductor you still have to pass the physcometric tests, depot drivers have already passed it. Just because you were a conductor and then went mainline driving doesn't make that the best way to get there. It is just your opinion.

He's made a serious and valid point. Depot work carries a high risk of an operating incident. Yet a newly qualified depot driver, has been given condiserably less practical training, than a newly qualified full mainline driver, performing the same task.

The idea of making new entrants serve years on the depots, is just old school railway snobbery at its worst. Give the new boys all the rubbish work to do. There is no practical benefit in it; elsewhere in the country, people come off the street, are trained, and go straight out on the mainline, no trouble at all. Whoever agreed to the GA set up, should be ashamed of themselves. It's a relic from the Dark Ages.

 

[Dave1987]

He's made a serious and valid point. Depot work carries a high risk of an operating incident. Yet a newly qualified depot driver, has been given condiserably less practical training, than a newly qualified full mainline driver, performing the same task.

The idea of making new entrants serve years on the depots, is just old school railway snobbery at its worst. Give the new boys all the rubbish work to do. There is no practical benefit in it; elsewhere in the country, people come off the street, are trained, and go straight out on the mainline, no trouble at all. Whoever agreed to the GA set up, should be ashamed of themselves. It's a relic from the Dark Ages.

I 100% totally disagree with you. The experience you gain in the depot is invaluable. If anything people getting mainline off the street breeds snobbery and I have noticed that on this forum a bit. Some people seem to think that being a mainline driver is the only job good enough for them. The traction and driving knowledge you gain in the depot arguably makes you much better when you go for mainline.

 

[Geargrinder]

deleted

 

[david_VI]

He's made a serious and valid point. Depot work carries a high risk of an operating incident. Yet a newly qualified depot driver, has been given condiserably less practical training, than a newly qualified full mainline driver, performing the same task.

The idea of making new entrants serve years on the depots, is just old school railway snobbery at its worst. Give the new boys all the rubbish work to do. There is no practical benefit in it; elsewhere in the country, people come off the street, are trained, and go straight out on the mainline, no trouble at all. Whoever agreed to the GA set up, should be ashamed of themselves. It's a relic from the Dark Ages.

This only happens in the East and GEML part of GA though? The WAGN part is straight to mainline.. with depot driving included. (As far as I know)

 

[Dave1987]

This only happens in the East and GEML part of GA though? The WAGN part is straight to mainline.. with depot driving included. (As far as I know)

You will be under TFL soon if you get the job buddy.

 

[E&W Lucas]

I 100% totally disagree with you. The experience you gain in the depot is invaluable. If anything people getting mainline off the street breeds snobbery and I have noticed that on this forum a bit. Some people seem to think that being a mainline driver is the only job good enough for them. The traction and driving knowledge you gain in the depot arguably makes you much better when you go for mainline.

Two questions:

1. Who do you think does the depot work, at those TOC's that don't have depot drivers?

2. How do you explain the thousands of drivers who have gone mainline off the street, and performed perfectly?

You've got the worst of it; that doesn't mean that you have to try and prove anything.

 

[Dave1987]

Two questions:

1. Who do you think does the depot work, at those TOC's that don't have depot drivers?

2. How do you explain the thousands of drivers who have gone mainline off the street, and performed perfectly?

You've got the worst of it; that doesn't mean that you have to try and prove anything.

Answer to number 1 = Mainline Drivers as part of their diagram or ones who have messed up or are medically restricted.

Answer to number 2 = They may perform fine normally but I bet an ex depot driver would perform far far better when they have a problem with their train.

I have not got the "worst" of it as you so put it at all. I am a depot driver and I should be a mainline driver within the next year or so. You compare that to people who will only go for a mainline position who are getting rejections left, right and centre. I'm paying into my railway pension, have got all the TOC privileges and am part of ASLEF. Yes it would have been ideal if I could have walked straight ino a mainline position but I would rather be in the railways as a depot driver with mainline a virtual certainty within a few years than only ever go for mainline positions and get rejections all the time. I'm in the driving grade, some people are prepared to start as cleaners, platform staff or guards to get to mainline. I feel quite privileged that I have managed to get straight into the driving grade without having to be those for a few years first. Why do you think so low of the depot driver grade eh? Remember just a few mess ups and you might end up perminantly in the depot!

 

[david_VI]

You will be under TFL soon if you get the job buddy.

I've read this around the forum but not found any official sources.. Care to link?

 

[Dave1987]

I've read this around the forum but not found any official sources.. Care to link?

There you go buddy...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23144343

 

[david_VI]

There you go buddy...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23144343

Thanks... Shocking.
My long term goal was to transfer to GEML, I guess that would be near impossible without applying to GA from scratch

 

[Dave1987]

Thanks... Shocking.
My long term goal was to transfer to GEML, I guess that would be near impossible without applying to GA from scratch

To be honest buddy even if TFL were not taking on West Anglia it would take you quite a while to transfer over to GEML. You would go in a the bottom of the pile on the PT&R list for your chosen depot. You would go in below all the depot drivers at that depot at the time you put and your transfer paperwork in and all the mainline drivers that have already put their paperwork in. There are three mainline drivers below me on the PT&R list for Colchester. So I will get a mainline link before they do. It is all done totally fairly, whoever is top of the list when a mainline link becomes available be that Depot Driver or Mainline driver from another depot, they get the link.

But with West Anglia transferring to TFL I would say yeah it will not be easy to transfer to GEML. Which depot did you want on GEML?

 

[david_VI]

To be honest buddy even if TFL were not taking on West Anglia it would take you quite a while to transfer over to GEML. You would go in a the bottom of the pile on the PT&R list for your chosen depot. You would go in below all the depot drivers at that depot at the time you put and your transfer paperwork in and all the mainline drivers that have already put their paperwork in. There are three mainline drivers below me on the PT&R list for Colchester. So I will get a mainline link before they do. It is all done totally fairly, whoever is top of the list when a mainline link becomes available be that Depot Driver or Mainline driver from another depot, they get the link.

But with West Anglia transferring to TFL I would say yeah it will not be easy to transfer to GEML. Which depot did you want on GEML?

Well it was a long term goal. I'm young and I know it may take years but it was one of those goals.. I'd be happy at any GEML depot.

Currently i'm trying to get into Bishops Stortford, Cambridge or last choice Chingford.. if I get through.

 

[Dave1987]

Well it was a long term goal. I'm young and I know it may take years but it was one of those goals.. I'd be happy at any GEML depot.

Currently i'm trying to get into Bishops Stortford, Cambridge or last choice Chingford.. if I get through.

I will PM you.

 

[badassunicorn]

So I'm a DD, and the way I see it is this;
When I applied for the role of trainee depot driver, I had no idea that I would eventually and automatically become a mainline driver. So in my mind, I am doing the job I applied to do, and I'm happy with that. I like my job and I'm sure when i do go mainline I will like that to, but I am in no great hurry to get there. I don't want to wish away my time in the yard, as it is totally different from mainline work.
So my advice, if you want to be a "proper" train driver then apply for mainline jobs.
If you want a broader railway experience involving more then simply driving, but then eventually leading to mainline wage, then go DD route.
At the end of the day its personal choice, make your bed and lie in it.

 

[Dave1987]

So I'm a DD, and the way I see it is this;
When I applied for the role of trainee depot driver, I had no idea that I would eventually and automatically become a mainline driver. So in my mind, I am doing the job I applied to do, and I'm happy with that. I like my job and I'm sure when i do go mainline I will like that to, but I am in no great hurry to get there. I don't want to wish away my time in the yard, as it is totally different from mainline work.
So my advice, if you want to be a "proper" train driver then apply for mainline jobs.
If you want a broader railway experience involving more then simply driving, but then eventually leading to mainline wage, then go DD route.
At the end of the day its personal choice, make your bed and lie in it.

That is your opinion, I respect that but all the guys I work with applied as they saw it as a stepping stone to mainline.

 

[TSJD]

Only Chingford going tfl, stortford and Cambridge are not. Hoping it won't be just chingfords, enfields and cheshunts as that would bore the **** out of me!

 

[JoanneAnderson]

Answering 'honestly' is noble, but it's not enough. Similarly - being conscious of 'Health and safety' is important - but it's not enough on it's own. Also in a way, consulting a "train driver of many years" might go against you. They'll be from a bygone era when things were different. A lot of the old hands where I work have laughed and admitted they'd never get a sniff these days at the job because it's changed so much. Whilst I don't doubt your friend or associate has earnt his job as driver: he might not necessarily have the wisdom to interpret a modern day application form: they're very clinical.

I don't think there's a sure-fire way to get enough "points" to gaurantee a pass at application stage - regardless of how many times you re-word it. I suspect comes down to what skills you have gained through experience in life - and how these prove you can become a good driver. Most industries use these - and sometimes they're referred to as 'core competencies'. They include things like 'composure in an emergency', concentrating for long periods of time, following a lot of strict rules and procedures in the workplace, teamworking, problem solving etc to name but a few. Then there are other factors which can determine how someone sat in a HR office reading your application feels about putting it in which of the two piles: your spelling and grammar, previous occupation (safety critical?), age (too young and inexperienced, or nearing retirement age), distance from depot, and general how you put yourself accross as a person.

It is a tough nut to crack - and you might not be falling short anywhere: it could be the calibre of a few of the other hundreds maybe thousands of applicants pip you to the post. All you can do is keep trying, and perhaps if it means that much: undertake something in life that'll give you the opportunity to exhibit these sought after experiences and skills. Some will suggest 'getting a foot in the door' on the railways via another role.

I see you live in Redbridge. Have you considered a job on the London Underground? They regularly recruit hundreds of platform staff, and after a short time in that role you can apply for train operator jobs. From there you could apply to the mainline in another couple of years. Just a thought.

Best of Luck

Thank you for taking the time to answer. I dont mind what or where i could drive . .ie depot tube or main line, i am just finding it very hard to get a foot in the door, !!! however i will keep trying, i have been excepted to the next round of bus driver for Arriva and also the next stage of revenue protection inspector for TFL which actually has a great starting salery of 30 thousand, maybe either of these jobs will tip the balance in my future attempts for train driver. Many thanks. Jo

 

[W230]

Interesting views on here as I also have an application in with Northern for trainee mainline driver. The speed at which the EMT job starts means, if successful, I could be offered the depot role before an interview with Northern.

If it was me, and I was offered the EMT job then I would take it, while keeping the Northern job on the backburner. If you later get offered the Northern job then there is nothing stopping you leaving EMT and heading over.

Like all TOCs, Northern's trainee driver positions are extremely competitive. Even if you get through everything you could still go into a talent pool for months with no guarantee of a job at the end.

In my opinion you're best keeping all your options open as long as the you actually want to do the depot driver job!