There is talk of WCR using retired drivers. As time goes on, will it be harder to get drivers and fireman for mainline steam duties, given that current mainline services don't run on steam so people won't be trained in it?
There is talk of WCR using retired drivers. As time goes on, will it be harder to get drivers and fireman for mainline steam duties, given that current mainline services don't run on steam so people won't be trained in it?
Could they train to become a driver, like the old days where fireman would train to become a driver? I guess it would be harder as no one really drives steam trains any more on the mainline so one would have to go away and learn on non steam engines.DBS train up steam crews from their existing drivers, usually working as fireman first then promoted to steam driver (The latest has just been in the news).
WCRC must have a scheme in place of some sort, although the line of promotion to steam driver (as DBS) is not generally available because most firemen are not qualified mainline drivers, but come from competent members of heritage railways/support crews and as such cannot become drivers.
Could they train to become a driver, like the old days where fireman would train to become a driver? I guess it would be harder as no one really drives steam trains any more on the mainline so one would have to go away and learn on non steam engines.
I think it's great that the 30 something year old became a steam train driver. Living his dream.
The only way the WC firemen could become steam drivers is if they become (or already are) mainline drivers, then WC could probably do as DBS do. West Coast are not able to train drivers from scratch as do the tocs/focs and for them to do so would be massively expensive.
I may be wrong but I seem to remember a year or two ago with much joyful press, West Coast Railways trained and passed two mainline drivers in house. One being Ian Riley, and the second being a chap from the North Yorkshire Moors.
A presentation was made to the two recently 'passed out' West Coast Railways Steam Drivers by Operations Manager for WCR, the Hon James Shuttleworth. The new drivers are Ian Riley, the present owner of the two Black Five locomotives used on The Jacobite this year, and John Hunt, Chairman on NELPG, who owns the K1 locomotive, also employed on Jacobite duties this year. Both Ian and John have been previously passed Fireman and during the 2012 Jacobite season have been driving under the watchful eyes of experienced Drivers Alex Iain MacDonald and Bobby Duncan. A final assessment was undertaken by Traction Inspector Peter Walker on October 26th and they were both duly awarded their Driver certificates and badges in Mallaig. The appointment of two additional Steam Train Drivers will help secure future operations of steam service on the Fort William/Mallaig line by West Coast Railways. We wish Ian and John all the very best on their achievements and look forward to welcoming them on The Jacobite in 2013.
And both are people that own locomotives and aren't short of a bob or two, it even strikes a large chord with the 'boys and their toys' comments near the start of the thread.
Including those two as examples of replenishing steam drivers isn't really relevant IMO.
And both are people that own locomotives and aren't short of a bob or two, it even strikes a large chord with the 'boys and their toys' comments near the start of the thread.
Including those two as examples of replenishing steam drivers isn't really relevant IMO.
And both are people that own locomotives and aren't short of a bob or two, it even strikes a large chord with the 'boys and their toys' comments near the start of the thread.
Including those two as examples of replenishing steam drivers isn't really relevant IMO.
Indeed. And apologies for going further off relevance for the thread.
Indeed. And apologies for going further off relevance for the thread.
It supeises me that WCR were able to run a training course. I can't see two busy businessmen with a wide range if commitments giving full attention to a long and intensive classroom based training course and then the hours that follow.
(snip)
Interesting link too, the DCR driver at Stafford had NYMR connections.
I may be completely wrong, but given that there was so much fanfare a couple of weeks ago for a solitary driver passing through, then surely it doesn't happen very often? Or was that a special case, wasn't he the son of a retiring driver?
A full time, 12 month, training programme. Of particular relevance, approx. 5 weeks of classroom based rules training, and 260 hours driving time. The latter typically takes about 5 months full time to achieve.
But surely, as long as these 'amateur drivers' comply with all safety processes then that should be okay?
I mean, as long as people have genuinely passed rules exams with no cheating/falsification etc?
At the risk of being pedantic, I can offer my own recent experience: Rules and traction at my TOC takes about 5 months, not weeks.
The point still stands that there's no way you can go from a non-footplate role to fully-competent to drive over NR routes in your spare time on a "zero-hours" basis. It's just more evidence of the failure of WCR's safety management system.
Personally, I'm in my thirties and might consider learning steam traction, but then it would just be a conversion and some route learning.
Am sorry I don't see how you can just have a conversion onto steam. Steam takes years to learn.
At the risk of being pedantic, I can offer my own recent experience: Rules and traction at my TOC takes about 5 months, not weeks.
The point still stands that there's no way you can go from a non-footplate role to fully-competent to drive over NR routes in your spare time on a "zero-hours" basis. It's just more evidence of the failure of WCR's safety management system.
Personally, I'm in my thirties and might consider learning steam traction, but then it would just be a conversion and some route learning.
I drive freight trains full time, and previously drove passenger. I've also been on the footplate in the preservation scene for over 30 years, so I do know what I'm talking about.
But surely, as long as these 'amateur drivers' comply with all safety processes then that should be okay?
I mean, as long as people have genuinely passed rules exams with no cheating/falsification etc?
A coach driver colleague of mine who incidentally did work ferrying passengers to and from the Jacobite trains can't understand the big deal here. He is a zero hours contract coach driver so why can't he be a zero hours contract train driver ? I tried to explain to him but wasn't having any of it.
Exactly, but the arrogance of some of them (not all), that I've come across, is beyond belief. These "firemen" are the real railwaymen, in their world view, anyway. Was most amused when one objected to being told to make sure his mobile was turned off, as "WCR let us have them on".
6. Demonstrate by independent assurance that there is an effective system for managing access to traction footplates/cabs in traffic, with clear communication protocols;
Can anyone highlight any key differences for the uninitiated, but curious?