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Trains via East Putney

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DerekC

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I was wondering whether I could catch a SWT train via East Putney and indeed there is one in each direction on a weekday. 2L10 Basingstoke - Waterloo passes at 00:16 and 2L77 Waterloo - Basingstoke passes at 23:22. Anybody know why this one service is routed this way?
 
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swt_passenger

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I think the mid-distance passenger services that go that way are for route retention knowledge for drivers from depots away from London. There are a significant number of ECS moves as well, mainly for stock going to/from Wimbledon depot - that will also maintain route knowledge for more local drivers.

I did the route in the middle of the day a few years back during engineering work, it probably comes up most years.
 
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MarlowDonkey

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Anybody know why this one service is routed this way?

One reason is so that drivers retain route knowledge in the event of a forced diversion. Another reason is that it avoids having to go through a closure process.
 

NSEFAN

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On some Sunday mornings (around 6am), you will find a couple of services to Waterloo starting at Wimbledon and going via East Putney due to engineering works.
 

swt_passenger

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There's also a third service during the week for very early risers:

2L10 0454 Basingstoke to Waterloo, 0549 from Wimbledon, passes East Putney at 0556.

The up train in the original post seems to be 2L82.

Meanwhile, just checked with RTT and there are 18 ECS moves across a 24 hour period.
 

TEW

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I did the route in the middle of the day a few years back during engineering work, it probably comes up most years.
Doesn't seem to get much use for planned engineering works recently but I've used it a couple of times for unplanned diversions over the last year. Once where there were signalling problems limiting the number of trains that could use the direct route Wimbledon-Clapham Junction and once when there was a person who fell underneath a train at Clapham Junction which caused the third rail power to be switched off on the mainline side.
 

Dr_Paul

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I was wondering whether I could catch a SWT train via East Putney and indeed there is one in each direction on a weekday. 2L10 Basingstoke - Waterloo passes at 00:16 and 2L77 Waterloo - Basingstoke passes at 23:22. Anybody know why this one service is routed this way?

I'll try to catch that one when I'm next at Waterloo at that time; it will make a change to travel that way. The last time I travelled via East Putney was some years back on an up Kingston service that was diverted at Wimbledon for some reason or another. The line down towards Wandsworth gave a very rough ride; I noticed the other day that it was still laid in bull-head.
 

Kite159

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There's also a third service during the week for very early risers:

2L10 0454 Basingstoke to Waterloo, 0549 from Wimbledon, passes East Putney at 0556.

The up train in the original post seems to be 2L82.

Meanwhile, just checked with RTT and there are 18 ECS moves across a 24 hour period.

I'm guessing it is a useful chord for ECS movements, from the Windsor side of Waterloo to head back to Wimbledon without having to cross the mains.
 

455driver

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Another reason is that it avoids having to go through a closure process.

Wrong, they dont call at the station (they turn right before the station platforms) and the line is very well used by LU and ECS moves to and from Wombledon Park depot.

The early/late trains are routed that way so Basingstoke crews keep their RK up to date on the route.
 

Surreytraveller

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Wrong, they dont call at the station (they turn right before the station platforms) and the line is very well used by LU and ECS moves to and from Wombledon Park depot.

They don't have to call at the station to prevent closure proceedings. ECS moves don't count when preventing closure proceedings. And LU trains don't use that section of track - they carry straight on to Putney Bridge.
 

455driver

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It depends if he means closure of the (LU) station or the (NR) connecting line, either way they are very busy so no chance of either closing.
 

DerekC

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Thanks for all the info. I should have thought of the Route Knowledge explanation. I have been that way a couple of times over the years when the main line was disrupted. It's obvious that at Point Pleasant there was once a flyover connection to the up Windsor lines. Anyone know when it was taken out?
 

hwl

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Thanks for all the info. I should have thought of the Route Knowledge explanation. I have been that way a couple of times over the years when the main line was disrupted. It's obvious that at Point Pleasant there was once a flyover connection to the up Windsor lines. Anyone know when it was taken out?

Mid 1990's from memory...
 

MidnightFlyer

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It's obvious that at Point Pleasant there was once a flyover connection to the up Windsor lines. Anyone know when it was taken out?

Brown's Atlas says the Up flyover was taken OOU 4 April 1987, demolished in 1990 owing to poor condition, and the remaining Down line was converted to bi-di 11 February 1991.
 
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Does anyone know what would have been the reason for the fly-over's installation in the first place? What levels of traffic would have demanded a fly-over rather than a flat junction that is the case now?
 

Deepgreen

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Does anyone know what would have been the reason for the fly-over's installation in the first place? What levels of traffic would have demanded a fly-over rather than a flat junction that is the case now?

There was a regular passenger service on the route until May 1941, with the ECS (both directions) and some goods workings. Despite the expense of providing the high flyover, to have had to cross the Windsor lines from the down side to gain the up lines would have been far too disruptive.
 
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Dr_Paul

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Does anyone know what would have been the reason for the fly-over's installation in the first place? What levels of traffic would have demanded a fly-over rather than a flat junction that is the case now?

There was a passenger service via East Putney, but this has been mentioned in another posting. I understand that there has never been a direct connection between the West London Line and the main south-western lines at Clapham Junction, so traffic would need to go via East Putney to join the main line at Wimbledon. My dad tells me that he was on a troop-train during the last war from West Runton in Norfolk to Aldershot that went via Stratford, Willesden Junction, Clapham Junction, East Putney, Wimbledon and then on through Woking. Despite commuting for many years up to Waterloo, this was the only time he'd ever been via East Putney.

The abutments for the up bridge East Putney are still in place, and I read somewhere that the bridge could be reinstated should traffic ever require this.
 

Deepgreen

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There was a passenger service via East Putney, but this has been mentioned in another posting. I understand that there has never been a direct connection between the West London Line and the main south-western lines at Clapham Junction, so traffic would need to go via East Putney to join the main line at Wimbledon. My dad tells me that he was on a troop-train during the last war from West Runton in Norfolk to Aldershot that went via Stratford, Willesden Junction, Clapham Junction, East Putney, Wimbledon and then on through Woking. Despite commuting for many years up to Waterloo, this was the only time he'd ever been via East Putney.

The abutments for the up bridge East Putney are still in place, and I read somewhere that the bridge could be reinstated should traffic ever require this.

Actually there is a direct connection, essentially across the Clapham yard throat, but it is a rare working that uses it. I've seem two in recent times - 60163 'Tornado' had its tyres turned at Wimbledon depot and ran via Earlsfield to gain the WLL at Clapham Junction. The other one was a NR test train powered by class 73s which took the same route.
 

heart-of-wessex

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The Basingstoke's have a strong chance of going that way still?

I heard before it used to be the better way of doing it, as on London Overnighters I used to try that 0042 Surbiton, which was booked that way but wasn't guaranteed.

I tried it about 6-7 times on different nights (back in 2011 or so mind) and gave up, as it was just straight through Earlsfield and sit around at Wimbledon. never re-attempted that run since
 

Dr_Paul

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Actually there is a direct connection, essentially across the Clapham yard throat, but it is a rare working that uses it. I've seem two in recent times - 60163 'Tornado' had its tyres turned at Wimbledon depot and ran via Earlsfield to gain the WLL at Clapham Junction. The other one was a NR test train powered by class 73s which took the same route.

Thinking about it, yes, this is possible. I'm not sure about the other way, that is, from the WLL to the down main through.
 

30907

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Does anyone know what would have been the reason for the fly-over's installation in the first place? What levels of traffic would have demanded a fly-over rather than a flat junction that is the case now?

To add to the other answers: the LSWR went for grade separation when it quadrupled lines, right out to Worting Junction (shame they decided against Woking, but that's another story).

Because of the depot layout at the Wimbledon end, there has always been a lot more ECS down than up, so the flat junction isn't a big issue.
 

455driver

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Thinking about it, yes, this is possible. I'm not sure about the other way, that is, from the WLL to the down main through.

That can't be done, the connection is only from the up passenger loop which is not bidirectional and there isn't a cross over from up main to down main in the trailing direction.
 

infobleep

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That can't be done, the connection is only from the up passenger loop which is not bidirectional and there isn't a cross over from up main to down main in the trailing direction.
Anyone know why it would have been put in, in one direction only? I assume it's a layout designed many years ago.

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455driver

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Anyone know why it would have been put in, in one direction only? I assume it's a layout designed many years ago.

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It's so trains can enter Clapham yard from the mainline side, the fact you can then get out onto the Windsor side is just a happy coincidence, I don't think it was planned to be used regularly as trains from the mainline side would join the Southern lines (Sutton lines?) at Wimbledon to get to Kensington Olympia and beyond.
 

infobleep

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It's so trains can enter Clapham yard from the mainline side, the fact you can then get out onto the Windsor side is just a happy coincidence, I don't think it was planned to be used regularly as trains from the mainline side would join the Southern lines (Sutton lines?) at Wimbledon to get to Kensington Olympia and beyond.
Thanks for that. Makes sense.

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TEW

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The Basingstoke's have a strong chance of going that way still?

I heard before it used to be the better way of doing it, as on London Overnighters I used to try that 0042 Surbiton, which was booked that way but wasn't guaranteed.

I tried it about 6-7 times on different nights (back in 2011 or so mind) and gave up, as it was just straight through Earlsfield and sit around at Wimbledon. never re-attempted that run since

The Basingstoke trains normally go that way. If they're a few minutes late though they tend to get sent up the main line to recover the time.
 

infobleep

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Why do only Basingstoke trains go that way? I mean in passenger service.

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swt_passenger

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Why do only Basingstoke trains go that way? I mean in passenger service.

See my answer in post #2. It hasn't always been just Basingstoke trains anyway, until quite recently one of the passenger services each day was the 0105 to Southampton, FX (i.e. Mon - Thur).
 
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