Transpennine Route Upgrade and Electrification updates

[zwk500]

The whole thing feels rather drawn out.

That's British planning in a nutshell.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

That's British planning in a nutshell.

It's often the case that the critical path is the signalling (and possibly the grid connections, which do take time to plan).
With signalling, NR has limited resources and is full up in particular with East Coast ETCS before they start on TRU - and the system has not been proved yet on a UK main line.
Resignalling needs sequences of bank holiday possessions and full line blocks, and there is a limited number of these each year.
I'd hazard a guess that the rate of spend on HS2 and IRP, and other capital projects, is also a constraint (government borrowing limits etc).

 

[zwk500]

It's often the case that the critical path is the signalling (and possibly the grid connections, which do take time to plan).
With signalling, NR has limited resources and is full up in particular with East Coast ETCS before they start on TRU - and the system has not been proved yet on a UK main line.
Resignalling needs sequences of bank holiday possessions and full line blocks, and there is a limited number of these each year.
I'd hazard a guess that the rate of spend on HS2 and IRP, and other capital projects, is also a constraint (government borrowing limits etc).

I'm well aware of the problems. Just that all of them are symptoms of a wider issue in the british planning system - can-kicking (and short-termism).

 

[Class 170101]

Class 323 worked service will begin in either May or December of 2024

Those dates don't align with a TT change in that year. Try June or October 2024.

 

[IanXC]

- Will the over bridge at Church Fenton be reconstructed to remove the pillar between the Down Leeds (Platform 4) and the Up Leeds (Through line), facilitating the easing of curve to the south of the station on the Up Leeds?

The speed limitation in this area is mainly down to the 3 high risk level crossings, and the points exiting the p3 platform loop.

Theres a new bridge to build enabling the 3 level crossings to be closed, but also the extension of the p3 loop to allow for a higher speed set of points.

The consultation documents for this work had no suggestion of replacement of (or even major works on) the road bridge at the station - whether that means there isn't I wouldn't like to say!

 

[evotista]

Just adding to the conversation in relation to the MR article about TRU progress and dates.

Interestingly later in the article it says EMU local services will run from Manchester Victoria to Stalybridge in 'late 2024' ... so I can only suppose it's unlikely we'll see 323s in operation by May 2024.

Shortly after that in the article it says the four tracking between Huddersfield and Ravensthorpe (project W3) being commissioned and electric wires between Huddersfield and Leeds going live (Project W4) will be in the 'early 2030s' ... this date being so far off in the future surprised me ... given that I would have imagined work on the ground would be starting come next year (2024) and even though I know it's 12 Km of a worksite for Huddersfield to Ravensthorpe and is a significant undertaking but taking 6 plus years to achieve completion seems a hell of a long duration!

What's not clear to me in the article is which Project package is next in line to actually commence with "spades in the ground" beyond of Stalybridge remodelling (Project W2a) occuring in March to April this year? If Stalybridge to Marsden (Project W2B) and Marsden to Huddersfield (Project W2C) are behind the Ravensthorpe section work then does that mean work on those won't commence until the early 2030s? ....

It'll be great when it's done and with bi-modes the benefits will I'm sure be incremental but it's only really dawned on me with this article how long it really is going to take to realise it all.

Following up on my own post about how long Huddersfield to Ravensthorpe (Project W3) will take, then looking through the TWAO docs that were submitted I found the following .. so it looks like from looking at the below that from Main construction works starting to then ultimately get to Entry into Service is about 3 years 9mths-ish ... a lot better than 6 years as I feared above. Also in the docs it says Huddersfield station will need 2 x 30 day closures for that bit, scheduled around Easter time periods ... so if they started actual work in 2024 maybe they could occur around the Easters in 2025 and 2026 with completion of W3 in late 2027

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It's often the case that the critical path is the signalling (and possibly the grid connections, which do take time to plan).
With signalling, NR has limited resources and is full up in particular with East Coast ETCS before they start on TRU - and the system has not been proved yet on a UK main line.
Resignalling needs sequences of bank holiday possessions and full line blocks, and there is a limited number of these each year.
I'd hazard a guess that the rate of spend on HS2 and IRP, and other capital projects, is also a constraint (government borrowing limits etc).

Yes but it doesn't take 7 years. This should be a 3-4 year project tops its been in design and planning for nearly a decade. We have 21 day closure coming up at Stalybridge would have been ideal time to plant masts between there and Huddersfield but won't happen of course.

 

[59CosG95]

Yes but it doesn't take 7 years. This should be a 3-4 year project tops its been in design and planning for nearly a decade. We have 21 day closure coming up at Stalybridge would have been ideal time to plant masts between there and Huddersfield but won't happen of course.

Of course, the exact nature of what to do between Stalybridge and Standedge is still being designed to the millimetre, and that's a route with very poor road-rail access (compared to, say, the ECML). The same applies for Standedge/Marsden to Huddersfield, although we do have more of an outline with that one as referenced in the most recent Modern Railways.

 

[snowball]

Following up on my own post about how long Huddersfield to Ravensthorpe (Project W3) will take, then looking through the TWAO docs that were submitted I found the following .. so it looks like from looking at the below that from Main construction works starting to then ultimately get to Entry into Service is about 3 years 9mths-ish ... a lot better than 6 years as I feared above. Also in the docs it says Huddersfield station will need 2 x 30 day closures for that bit, scheduled around Easter time periods ... so if they started actual work in 2024 maybe they could occur around the Easters in 2025 and 2026 with completion of W3 in late 2027

When I looked through the application docs last year I missed the one you quote. It is indeed good news as I was previously relying on this one which, in paragraph 3, suggests spending continuing until the first year of CP8 (2029-30), as I said in #6178.

Of course the outturn costs will probably be much higher now because of inflation.

 

[Batley Lad]

Without derailing the current thread, I just wanted to add an update on works around Batley. Nothing too grand but progress on the small scale stuff that adds to TRU progress across different sites.

Batley station.
Vegetation cleared and hardcore road laid from behind platform 2, under Soothill road bridge and finishes just shy of the inclined section of the former Adwalton route. Office and welfare facilities built behind platform 2. Track access RRAP’s installed on both running lines either end of platform 2 with Armco and line side barriers installed.

Lady Anne Crossing
Vegetation pathway cleared on the inclined Adwalton route leaving trees either side in tact. (No hardcore road installed) The former eastern bridge abutment has been cleared of most vegetation. The embankment leading to the abutment has been shaped to accommodate the new footbridge crosssing. Additionally, the retaining wall on Howley street has been core drilled with anchor bolts being driven in, then grouted.

Rutland Road leading to Lady Anne crossing. (Opposite side to Adwalton alignment) Part of the railway boundary wall removed and some earthworks carried out. This will form one side of the new footbridge crossing.

Batley Cross-over.
This has been built during the past couple of weeks adjacent to the running lines in an area close to Soothill road bridge. I assume it will be fitted during the nine day blockade starting Saturday 4th Feb onwards? (I thought that was originally scheduled for June this year but I may be mistaken)

I’ll try and post pictures on a separate post later.

Without derailing the current thread, I just wanted to add an update on works around Batley. Nothing too grand but progress on the small scale stuff that adds to TRU progress across different sites.

Batley station.
Vegetation cleared and hardcore road laid from behind platform 2, under Soothill road bridge and finishes just shy of the inclined section of the former Adwalton route. Office and welfare facilities built behind platform 2. Track access RRAP’s installed on both running lines either end of platform 2 with Armco and line side barriers installed.

Lady Anne Crossing
Vegetation pathway cleared on the inclined Adwalton route leaving trees either side in tact. (No hardcore road installed) The former eastern bridge abutment has been cleared of most vegetation. The embankment leading to the abutment has been shaped to accommodate the new footbridge crosssing. Additionally, the retaining wall on Howley street has been core drilled with anchor bolts being driven in, then grouted.

Rutland Road leading to Lady Anne crossing. (Opposite side to Adwalton alignment) Part of the railway boundary wall removed and some earthworks carried out. This will form one side of the new footbridge crossing.

Batley Cross-over.
This has been built during the past couple of weeks adjacent to the running lines in an area close to Soothill road bridge. I assume it will be fitted during the nine day blockade starting Saturday 4th Feb onwards? (I thought that was originally scheduled for June this year but I may be mistaken)

I’ll try and post pictures on a separate post later.

Batley Station

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Without derailing the current thread, I just wanted to add an update on works around Batley. Nothing too grand but progress on the small scale stuff that adds to TRU progress across different sites.

Fantastic update thank you. This has not derailed the thread at all it is good progress. Look forward to the photos.

BTW -----Welcome to the forum and I look forward to your future contributions.

 

[Batley Lad]

Without derailing the current thread, I just wanted to add an update on works around Batley. Nothing too grand but progress on the small scale stuff that adds to TRU progress across different sites.

Batley station.
Vegetation cleared and hardcore road laid from behind platform 2, under Soothill road bridge and finishes just shy of the inclined section of the former Adwalton route. Office and welfare facilities built behind platform 2. Track access RRAP’s installed on both running lines either end of platform 2 with Armco and line side barriers installed.

Lady Anne Crossing
Vegetation pathway cleared on the inclined Adwalton route leaving trees either side in tact. (No hardcore road installed) The former eastern bridge abutment has been cleared of most vegetation. The embankment leading to the abutment has been shaped to accommodate the new footbridge crosssing. Additionally, the retaining wall on Howley street has been core drilled with anchor bolts being driven in, then grouted.

Rutland Road leading to Lady Anne crossing. (Opposite side to Adwalton alignment) Part of the railway boundary wall removed and some earthworks carried out. This will form one side of the new footbridge crossing.

Batley Cross-over.
This has been built during the past couple of weeks adjacent to the running lines in an area close to Soothill road bridge. I assume it will be fitted during the nine day blockade starting Saturday 4th Feb onwards? (I thought that was originally scheduled for June this year but I may be mistaken)

I’ll try and post pictures on a separate post later.



Batley Station

Lady Anne Crossing

Batley Cross-Over

Without derailing the current thread, I just wanted to add an update on works around Batley. Nothing too grand but progress on the small scale stuff that adds to TRU progress across different sites.

Batley station.
Vegetation cleared and hardcore road laid from behind platform 2, under Soothill road bridge and finishes just shy of the inclined section of the former Adwalton route. Office and welfare facilities built behind platform 2. Track access RRAP’s installed on both running lines either end of platform 2 with Armco and line side barriers installed.

Lady Anne Crossing
Vegetation pathway cleared on the inclined Adwalton route leaving trees either side in tact. (No hardcore road installed) The former eastern bridge abutment has been cleared of most vegetation. The embankment leading to the abutment has been shaped to accommodate the new footbridge crosssing. Additionally, the retaining wall on Howley street has been core drilled with anchor bolts being driven in, then grouted.

Rutland Road leading to Lady Anne crossing. (Opposite side to Adwalton alignment) Part of the railway boundary wall removed and some earthworks carried out. This will form one side of the new footbridge crossing.

Batley Cross-over.
This has been built during the past couple of weeks adjacent to the running lines in an area close to Soothill road bridge. I assume it will be fitted during the nine day blockade starting Saturday 4th Feb onwards? (I thought that was originally scheduled for June this year but I may be mistaken)

I’ll try and post pictures on a separate post later.

Rutland Road

Thank you for the welcome- I need to work on my posting skills but the photos are in order of the first post.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Fabulous

 

[D6130]

Great photos....thanks for posting. Welcome to the forum from me too!

 

[59CosG95]

Without derailing the current thread, I just wanted to add an update on works around Batley. Nothing too grand but progress on the small scale stuff that adds to TRU progress across different sites.

Batley station.
Vegetation cleared and hardcore road laid from behind platform 2, under Soothill road bridge and finishes just shy of the inclined section of the former Adwalton route. Office and welfare facilities built behind platform 2. Track access RRAP’s installed on both running lines either end of platform 2 with Armco and line side barriers installed.

Lady Anne Crossing
Vegetation pathway cleared on the inclined Adwalton route leaving trees either side in tact. (No hardcore road installed) The former eastern bridge abutment has been cleared of most vegetation. The embankment leading to the abutment has been shaped to accommodate the new footbridge crosssing. Additionally, the retaining wall on Howley street has been core drilled with anchor bolts being driven in, then grouted.

Rutland Road leading to Lady Anne crossing. (Opposite side to Adwalton alignment) Part of the railway boundary wall removed and some earthworks carried out. This will form one side of the new footbridge crossing.

Batley Cross-over.
This has been built during the past couple of weeks adjacent to the running lines in an area close to Soothill road bridge. I assume it will be fitted during the nine day blockade starting Saturday 4th Feb onwards? (I thought that was originally scheduled for June this year but I may be mistaken)

I’ll try and post pictures on a separate post later.



Batley Station

IIRC the crossover is still scheduled for installation in June, but it could be the case that it gets installed during the 9-day Morley block and gets commissioned in June.

 

[AL1875]

Apart from some of the line speed increases between Huddersfield and Dewsbury outlined above, are there any diagrams demonstrating any speed upgrades on other sections of the route? I thought there would have to be many more increased speed sections to get that 12 minute time saving from Vic to York that was talked about.

 

[Spartacus]

Apart from some of the line speed increases between Huddersfield and Dewsbury outlined above, are there any diagrams demonstrating any speed upgrades on other sections of the route? I thought there would have to be many more increased speed sections to get that 12 minute time saving from Vic to York that was talked about.

I'm sure Morley's getting one with the relocating of the station, and possibly Neville Hill.

 

[Batley Lad]

IIRC the crossover is still scheduled for installation in June, but it could be the case that it gets installed during the 9-day Morley block and gets commissioned in June.

I think you could be correct and it maybe installed next week and commissioned later. I have question about the yellow machinery in the below photo - what do they call it and will it actually “Walk” the New Cross-over into position?

 

[Halish Railway]

Apart from some of the line speed increases between Huddersfield and Dewsbury outlined above, are there any diagrams demonstrating any speed upgrades on other sections of the route? I thought there would have to be many more increased speed sections to get that 12 minute time saving from Vic to York that was talked about.

This is taken from a PWI video on YouTube uploaded a few years ago. It is a bit outdated as the various linespeed improvements that have happened since are different to what is on the graph (E.g. the realigned Miles Platting curve is 55mph, not 60mph as shown on the graph and post-remodelling the linespeed through Stalybridge will be 50mph, not 60/70mph). However it still gives a rough indication of what will happen.

 

[Batley Lad]

Great photos....thanks for posting. Welcome to the forum from me too!

Thank you for the welcome.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I think I've missed this crossover at Batley. What is it being installed for?

 

[Halish Railway]

I think I've missed this crossover at Batley. What is it being installed for?

So a Batley to Leeds shuttle can run whilst the Dewsbury to Huddersfield works are being carried out.

 

[CAF397]

Close. The crossover will allow trains to access the Down platform at Dewsbury for turnbacks there.

 

[Halish Railway]

Close. The crossover will allow trains to access the Down platform at Dewsbury for turnbacks there.

Thanks for the clarification - I suppose they’re putting it on the nearest available straight track to avoid the issues with putting a point on a canted curve which would need recanting to enable a linespeed increase. Are ground signals going to be required to get from the crossover to the Dewsbury down platform? Given how compact the crossover is I’ll assume that trains coming from Leeds will have to come to a stop at a red signal to use the crossover.

 

[CAF397]

You can see TPWS TSS and OSS grids on the Down line on approach to Union Mill Viaduct (Dewsbury side of Batley Station), so there must be a bidirectional signal going there.

Looking at the available land, it seems the crossover will go around where its being constructed.

Batley Station itself is due a rebuild, maybe this allows for a 'Farnworth' scenario, where one platform is reconstructed, then the track is slewn over to the new platform and the 2nd platform is reconstructed.

 

[Halish Railway]

Can someone enlighten me of what will happen with Batley station? I understand that the existing subway between the platforms will be filled in and replaced with an overbridge to get rid of the ‘Batley Bump’ but not much else.

 

[Bald Rick]

Apart from some of the line speed increases between Huddersfield and Dewsbury outlined above, are there any diagrams demonstrating any speed upgrades on other sections of the route? I thought there would have to be many more increased speed sections to get that 12 minute time saving from Vic to York that was talked about.

The electric traction gives a big saving. For example the increase from 100-125 between Church Fenton and York, combined with the electric traction, saves 2 minutes alone, and that happens next year.

 

[Batley Lad]

Can someone enlighten me of what will happen with Batley station? I understand that the existing subway between the platforms will be filled in and replaced with an overbridge to get rid of the ‘Batley Bump’ but not much else.

Your correct about the subway and new link bridge. As I understand it, platform 2 will also be demolished and rebuilt to modern standards. I assume platform 1 will follow afterwards. I’ve been to a couple of drop in events last year but nothing concrete on the scope of works and/or any definitive start date on the station.

Subway - as the station building and platform 1 both straddle the subway, it will be interesting to see what they eventually do with the space once it has been taken out of use and filled in. The pictures below (taken a few years ago) gives you an idea of the length of the subway and how it steps down from the station entrance. (First photo looking down to the first flight of steps and so on)

 

[Halish Railway]

The electric traction gives a big saving. For example the increase from 100-125 between Church Fenton and York, combined with the electric traction, saves 2 minutes alone, and that happens next year.

I’d add to that that Leeds to Morley is quite a climb, making for slow progress on anything but a 185 or 68/Mk5 (when they run). Even with the current linespeeds (up to the realigned track through Morley) electric traction will result in a significant time saving.

 

[SuperNova]

Can someone enlighten me of what will happen with Batley station? I understand that the existing subway between the platforms will be filled in and replaced with an overbridge to get rid of the ‘Batley Bump’ but not much else.

Pretty much this with platform extensions.

Apart from some of the line speed increases between Huddersfield and Dewsbury outlined above, are there any diagrams demonstrating any speed upgrades on other sections of the route? I thought there would have to be many more increased speed sections to get that 12 minute time saving from Vic to York that was talked about.

They're knocking down platform 2 at Morley once the new station is built and will be a line speed increase to 70/75mph (can't remember exactly)