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Transpora Group

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RustySpoons

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Has there been any information about 'Route B'? Seems odd that they advertise they'll be running every 15/20 minutes, yet only provide information and timetable of a route that runs every 20 minutes.

Brave time to launch a sightseeing service as winter approaches but I can see it being very lucrative over the summer, especially with tourists!
 
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markymark2000

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Has there been any information about 'Route B'? Seems odd that they advertise they'll be running every 15/20 minutes, yet only provide information and timetable of a route that runs every 20 minutes.

Brave time to launch a sightseeing service as winter approaches but I can see it being very lucrative over the summer, especially with tourists!
Lets be honest, it's not just a sightseeing bus though, it will also be like the 15H a little bit in that it may be used by people making normal journeys. It an expensive local journey but it is a bit of a novelty so people may be willing to do that.


I would say though, shame they didn't do it as a 40 min circular and opted for end to end as of course this limits the use for tourists, you do half the tour, you've seen it all.
 

James H

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I always thought it was a missed opportunity that neither of the TfL heritage Routemaster routes crossed the river, missing out on the photo opportunities of a classic bus on a bridge.
 

Busaholic

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I always thought it was a missed opportunity that neither of the TfL heritage Routemaster routes crossed the river, missing out on the photo opportunities of a classic bus on a bridge.
I only used the 15H on a handful of occasions, but one Saturday our westbound bus crossed London Bridge, went round the bus station there, and back over the bridge the other way and into Cannon Street. An obstruction at the traffic lights just beyond the North side of London Bridge was the reason. Of course, I was unable to take a photo!

Regarding the new route, I can't see those timings being adhered to on weekdays very often, especially from Piccadilly Circus.
 

richard13

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20 Jan 2019
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Londoner Bus route A, reminds me much of the Newport route, which didn't last long, due to basics (general business and bus operation).
Some thoughts:
  • Waterloo Cab road is not a tourist venue - the other stops are drive past.
  • Keeping a Routemaster or two running 25 journeys a day will need some maintenance and spare parts - and a handy breakdown truck!
  • Google maps at 6pm this evening said that the route would take about 43 minutes by car. That allows no time for stops, passenger boarding and traffic.
  • As in their publicity, the route is subject to regular event closures.
  • It needs a conductor on the platform - hop on / hop off between stops is probably not allowed these days, never mind chatting to customers, commentary etc.
  • Getting publicity to tourists?

As a PS
Foxstar registered a Christmas route in Bristol on their Welsh O licence - It was issued without complaint, but gave a start date in January! It ran as a free service.
 

busestrains

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Although not yet on the website, a copy of the leaflet - including times, fares and map - has been posted to their Twitter. A round-trip from Waterloo is timed at 43 minutes with a frequency of every 15-20 minutes 0900-1700. As mentioned previously, fares are £5 for adults. Concessions are £4, children/student £3 and a group (4 people) £15. Cash and contactless accepted.

The above summarises the leaflet content, as it’s not possible to copy and paste the images, but the tweet itself can be found at: https://twitter.com/londonerbuses/status/1579186588881661953
That is an absolute bargain! All of the other sightseeing tour companies are charging around £30.00 to £40.00 for a day ticket so i am shocked at just £5.00 for a day ticket!
 

chopperman21

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11 Aug 2016
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75
It has been mentioned that the PVR will be 3 for this service, so good luck running a reliable 15 min service. The 20 min service seems more logical but good luck using it this month. With the daily Just Stop Oil protests across Central London. And as has been mentioned I can't see it managing much of its published route on most other weekends with regular demos and events.
 

Andyh82

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I can see it being popular with enthusiasts and trendy young Londoners wanting to post on instagram at how mad it is that they are on an old bus.

I’m not sure about the market they are actually going for tourists - the things that will work against them - the big players are very visible due to the vast number of buses on the road, how will the RMs stand out from the occasional RMs you often see on various private hires? Also the big boys have people flogging tours and handing out leaflets in the street every few metres in the west end, will they get involved in this. Also as already mentioned, the big players Toot and Big Bus have parked buses at the main stops that act as advertising, whereas this tour will be starting and ending on the not very tourist friendly Waterloo Cab Road
 

M@verick

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I can't see it lasting beyond the initial excitement of a few enthusiasts having a ride round in the first few weeks of operations.

For a start, each bus needs two members of staff to keep it on the road making it twice as expensive to crew each vehicle. The wages mentioned are not great for London and despite the predictable Rhys Hand social media posts saying they had hundreds of applicants, yet they continue to advertise.

The publicity battle is huge, open top tour leaflets are all over London in outlets and hotels, pre arranged attraction discounts are agreed and you get the benefit of commentary, as well as a route that takes in more attractions and landmarks. Ticket sellers are competitive on street.

Routemasters, even with modern engines require a lot of maintenance and they can be expensive to keep going.

Furthermore there are plenty of RMs available for hire around London by established operators like Ensignbus with more connections and marketing power.

If this venture lasts six months I'll be very surprised.

Whatever may be with Rhys, he did the right thing in leaving HCT Group by the looks of things!
Banned from HCT premises I gather, he didn't leave through choice.
 

RhysHand

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I can't see it lasting beyond the initial excitement of a few enthusiasts having a ride round in the first few weeks of operations.

For a start, each bus needs two members of staff to keep it on the road making it twice as expensive to crew each vehicle. The wages mentioned are not great for London and despite the predictable Rhys Hand social media posts saying they had hundreds of applicants, yet they continue to advertise.

The publicity battle is huge, open top tour leaflets are all over London in outlets and hotels, pre arranged attraction discounts are agreed and you get the benefit of commentary, as well as a route that takes in more attractions and landmarks. Ticket sellers are competitive on street.

Routemasters, even with modern engines require a lot of maintenance and they can be expensive to keep going.

Furthermore there are plenty of RMs available for hire around London by established operators like Ensignbus with more connections and marketing power.

If this venture lasts six months I'll be very surprised.


Banned from HCT premises I gather, he didn't leave through choice.
Thanks for your positive insight…. Your comments regarding HCT are factually incorrect. So let’s just stick to what this thread is about.
 

jammy36

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28 Aug 2013
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299
Personally, I've never been that fussed by the Routemaster and can't quite understand the adoration they are held in by some enthusiasts. But, I appreciate they have globally be become the iconic London bus. I expect they will be a popular sight for tourists and will be well photographed. I wonder though whether more tourists might be satisfied with seeing and photographing them than actually riding them...
 

RhysHand

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Personally, I've never been that fussed by the Routemaster and can't quite understand the adoration they are held in by some enthusiasts. But, I appreciate they have globally be become the iconic London bus. I expect they will be a popular sight for tourists and will be well photographed. I wonder though whether more tourists might be satisfied with seeing and photographing them than actually riding them...
Time will certainly tell… we’re certainly not against trying new positive things in an increasingly negative industry!
 

RhysHand

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You're on the senior leadership team of Transpora, so I wouldn't really say m@verick (or anyone) is going off topic or being out of order by discussing your employment and ventures, past and present.
Have no issues, as long as it’s factual :)
 

M803UYA

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24 May 2020
Messages
647
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Under my stone....
I can't see it lasting beyond the initial excitement of a few enthusiasts having a ride round in the first few weeks of operations.

For a start, each bus needs two members of staff to keep it on the road making it twice as expensive to crew each vehicle. The wages mentioned are not great for London and despite the predictable Rhys Hand social media posts saying they had hundreds of applicants, yet they continue to advertise.

The publicity battle is huge, open top tour leaflets are all over London in outlets and hotels, pre arranged attraction discounts are agreed and you get the benefit of commentary, as well as a route that takes in more attractions and landmarks. Ticket sellers are competitive on street.

Routemasters, even with modern engines require a lot of maintenance and they can be expensive to keep going.

Furthermore there are plenty of RMs available for hire around London by established operators like Ensignbus with more connections and marketing power.

If this venture lasts six months I'll be very surprised.
Three of the Routemasters in use with this new venture are sourced from Blackpool and presumably are at the expense of hire work they'd otherwise be undertaking. It's not the first time Philip Higgs has launched a new venture without the proper financial back up in place. I had some involvement with one, as an employee. I wasn't someone owed money but others were at the end. He has history with the traffic commissioner. One hopes he's learned from those experiences - most people do!
There is evident cashflow management taking place - buses being refuelled at a petrol station will be costing the operation more than they'd be paying if they had onsite fuel storage. Hopefully they're doing it through fuel cards as that is a little cheaper than paying at pump price. If the former, then the on bus takings are critical but you effectively burn the money you need to survive before you bank it.
This new operation does have some experienced people behind it - but it's going to be hard work to survive. It's not something I'd want to be doing in this current climate, especially when guaranteed revenue can be found by operating hires with the same vehicles with all costs met from the hire income. I'm not familiar with the provisions of a London Local service permit, but they might allow more flexibility than a conventionally registered local bus service - so there might be options open to scale back if demand was lower than anticipated. RedRoutemaster did get a permit to run a replacement for the heritage 15 but they never started operating it.
The 'initial excitement' phase might well be where this venture stops. Enthusiasts aren't known for putting money into services, but they do take lovely photos! I look forward, as an eternal pessimist, to being proven wrong. :)
Roger French has taken a trip on this new service - and the +'ve review can be found here.
 
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GusB

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Let's keep things factual. If anyone has any allegations to make about an individual or organisation, you should be able to provide some evidence to back up your claim. Forum rules state:

It is your responsibility to ensure all your contributions to this forum are respectful, appropriate, relevant, legal and accessible.
 

Galaxy

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3 Oct 2006
Messages
105
I had the pleasure of being on route A today. There was a good team giving out lots of information and leaflets and was great to ride on an old Routemaster.

Passenger numbers weren't too bad but there were lots of people taking photos as we passed through.

I hope it can wash its face though as there's quite a few team members involved, but all in all it seems to be a nice little niche.

I can see the fiver ticket going up a bit in the future and I can't say I'd do it again for a while as the itch is scratched, but good luck to everyone involved and trying something different in these strange times!
 
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Russel

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I will ill be in London in mid November. Hopefully the Routemaster service will still be operating by then and I'll get to have a ride.
 
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bussnapperwm

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18 May 2014
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1,510
It'll be interesting to see if Transpora decide to reintroduce their other Sightseeing tours as during next year's season (I.e. Leeds, Chester and Birmingham)...

... especially as Birmingham was only meant to be "temporarily suspended" due to the tram works
 

RustySpoons

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5 Apr 2019
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773
More Hand happenings. Catch Bus 22 renamed Transpora NW https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06002703 Higgs still sole director.

Transpora Ltd now has Hand and Higgs as directors, Charlie Butler has resigned.

Maybe there’s scope for a Transpora Monopoly board game for Christmas?
To be fair Transpora NW is a better name than Catch 22. Always thought Catch 22 was an odd name for a bus company, made it sound like it was the difficult solution to a difficult problem!
 

-Colly405-

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I'm intrigued about the routing of the Londoner A, being in Westminster for work at the mo and having observed it...

Once over Westminster Bridge, why does it not just turn right into Parliament St, as the TfL routes do, instead of going around Parliament Sq? It doesn't go round the Square heading the other way.
Is it to do with it not being TfL?
 

philthetube

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Three of the Routemasters in use with this new venture are sourced from Blackpool and presumably are at the expense of hire work they'd otherwise be undertaking. It's not the first time Philip Higgs has launched a new venture without the proper financial back up in place. I had some involvement with one, as an employee. I wasn't someone owed money but others were at the end. He has history with the traffic commissioner. One hopes he's learned from those experiences - most people do!
There is evident cashflow management taking place - buses being refuelled at a petrol station will be costing the operation more than they'd be paying if they had onsite fuel storage. Hopefully they're doing it through fuel cards as that is a little cheaper than paying at pump price. If the former, then the on bus takings are critical but you effectively burn the money you need to survive before you bank it.
This new operation does have some experienced people behind it - but it's going to be hard work to survive. It's not something I'd want to be doing in this current climate, especially when guaranteed revenue can be found by operating hires with the same vehicles with all costs met from the hire income. I'm not familiar with the provisions of a London Local service permit, but they might allow more flexibility than a conventionally registered local bus service - so there might be options open to scale back if demand was lower than anticipated. RedRoutemaster did get a permit to run a replacement for the heritage 15 but they never started operating it.
The 'initial excitement' phase might well be where this venture stops. Enthusiasts aren't known for putting money into services, but they do take lovely photos! I look forward, as an eternal pessimist, to being proven wrong. :)
Roger French has taken a trip on this new service - and the +'ve review can be found here.
Almost certainly no advantage to having own fuelling facilities, chain filling stations can buy fuel much more than and individual using a few thousand litres a month, there there is the storage licences storage tank checks etc, certainly a fuel card is worth having, also because it avoids driver fraud but nothing else.
 

RhysHand

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Almost certainly no advantage to having own fuelling facilities, chain filling stations can buy fuel much more than and individual using a few thousand litres a month, there there is the storage licences storage tank checks etc, certainly a fuel card is worth having, also because it avoids driver fraud but nothing else.
Exactly this - but we also fuel hedge on a weekly basis, which can be negative… but we have found it more positive in terms of cost.
 

busesrusuk

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markymark2000

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Some images from the first day; both route A and B operated (the B very briefly for what appeared to be a couple of rounders only) here:
If route B is operating, there are certainly more questions than answers.

How safe is that? Having someone else riding around in the cab? Especially with the cab door open..... What happens on private land I guess is upto the land owner but on a public highway, that would not be deemed safe by police, DVSA or TFL.
 
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